Arabian "Type" Miniatures

[rabbitsfizz]

I know of at least 3 different types of Arabians - Egyptian bred, which Mike's are, Polish bred, and Russian Bred. The Egyptian bred is the most extreme and were originally desert bred. The polish and Russian are similar, as the Russians took many studs as they swept through Europe. The Polish and Russian are a little coarser, but NOT coarse!

So IMO most "Arabian Type" miniatures are closer to the Polish or Russian types, but of course not true Arabians. The "Arabian Type" in miniature was created as folks started going away from the short legged, big headed, heavy bodied little miniatures from 20+ years ago.

The strains within the Arabian breed are

Seglawieh

Muniqhi

Rodanieh

They used to be fairly well defined, but the "Egyptian" etc are merely places of origin.

For example I had a pure Crabbet mare who was Rodanieh lines and then again you can get Crabbet horses that were Seglawieh lines, (spellings optional, btw there are so many different spellings you just have to guess!)

IMO I have never seen a Mini that could be compared, let alone mistaken for, an Arab!

I do like the araby type but have found that, however araby these horses look, conditioned, kept short of fibre and stretched out in the ring, as soon as you put them in a field they turn into little Welsh like creatures.

When I turned my Arabs out in a big grass field, they turned into fat Arabs.

Actually changing what a horse looks like takes generations and I am not into "Topiary"

 

[Equuisize]

[quote 'HGFarm' "I admit that I think the Miniatures today are SO much better looking than

they were 20 years or so ago and the breed is improving all the time." quote]

And right there lays the answer to the question..

Miniatures today look different than they did 20 years ago.

If you had/have access to some Arabian Horse World magazines from the 60's,70's and 80's you'd see the

Arab has changed over the course of the years, also.

If you compared them to the Desert Bred Arabs back in the day, when they began to be imported to the Britain, USA,

Europe and other countries you'd not think they look anything like today's Arabs.

Horses evolve based on the tastes of man. Arabian, Miniature and many other breeds.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Not sure I completely agree with you there, Nancy.

Arabs in the USA have changed an awful lot, not always for the better, either. They have become far, far too big, for one thing, but the Arabs that I see are very similar to the Arabs that I used to see, and are identifiable as a breed, unlike the Minis that attempt to look like them.

The picturesof the Minis have changed a great deal since Amy Toners day, she was a brilliant photographer who did not rely too heavily on the newly invented "photoshopping", but, since her day, you can no longer be sure that what you are seeing is what the horse looks like.

I really like it when I go on a web page that declares that the horses are as you see them, this is a legal declaration, btw, something you can hold them to, and I appreciate it.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

The pictures of the Minis have changed a great deal...

I totally agree with this! I think the pictures have changed far more than the horses actually have. There were some gorgeous horses at the Nationals and World show this year, but even at their best after a year (or more) of conditioning you'd be hard-pressed to find one that looked as exotic in the ring as it did in its pro photos. I think pictures are being altered to make the minis look more Arabian, but the in-person similarities are still pretty mild. It gives those that don't know any better some pretty unrealistic expectations when it comes to Arabian type minis.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

The crying shame of it all is that, if they just left the pictures alone, there are some truly beautiful animals around, really, really nice, in their own right, with just some tidying up and all the stuff we all do, sometimes just for our own enjoyment!

That is what I meant by "topiary".....I am not trying to say the horses are not good, just that I would rather see what they really are.

If I wanted a cartoon or a caricature, I could draw it myself....

 

[ruffian]

I totally agree with this! I think the pictures have changed far more than the horses actually have. There were some gorgeous horses at the Nationals and World show this year, but even at their best after a year (or more) of conditioning you'd be hard-pressed to find one that looked as exotic in the ring as it did in its pro photos. I think pictures are being altered to make the minis look more Arabian, but the in-person similarities are still pretty mild. It gives those that don't know any better some pretty unrealistic expectations when it comes to Arabian type minis.

This is so true! There is one photographer who makes the horses look so unreal that I would insist on natural photographs before I would buy the horse. It's easy to pick them out, even without the photog's logo.

I think bottom line is that people - myself included - consider today's show miniature to be "arab TYPE" because they are more fine boned and elegant. Not to say they are ARABIAN, but Arabian TYPE. They look more like an Arabian than a Quarter Horse or a Draft. I believe that is why most folks call them Arabian Type.

 

[Minimor]

"Arabian type" is one thing--when someone says Arabian type I do picture a specific type of mini. What I picture isn't an Arabian, but a Mini that is sort of that type. Mind you, often when they say Arabian type and I see the horse or a photo of the horse, I do have to think that I really don't see any Arabian type there!

However--there are more than a few people who will brag that they have a horse that is "a true Arabian in miniature". When someone says that, I still don't picture a Mini sized Arab, I just think "not likely" because I have yet to see a Mini that truly looks like an Arabian.

 

[CCC]

The strains within the Arabian breed are

Seglawieh

Muniqhi

Rodanieh

They used to be fairly well defined, but the "Egyptian" etc are merely places of origin.

For example I had a pure Crabbet mare who was Rodanieh lines and then again you can get Crabbet horses that were Seglawieh lines, (spellings optional, btw there are so many different spellings you just have to guess!)

IMO I have never seen a Mini that could be compared, let alone mistaken for, an Arab!

I do like the araby type but have found that, however araby these horses look, conditioned, kept short of fibre and stretched out in the ring, as soon as you put them in a field they turn into little Welsh like creatures.

When I turned my Arabs out in a big grass field, they turned into fat Arabs.

Actually changing what a horse looks like takes generations and I am not into "Topiary"

Sounds like you know what you are talking about.. I need you to tell me how my Arab is bred .. as it all sounds like gibberish to me! (coming from the APHA horse world)

TO OP>>

I ADORE your first mare!! I would LOVE to have a medicine hat

, and your 2nd filly is beautiful! of course all 3 are though!

Nicole

 

[MindyLee]

Sorry but I feel this has what once again was supposed to be a fun thread has become a mud sling thread and compleatly went the other way then intended. If theres NO type araby miniatures then everyone should'nt use terms of drafty or QH type either. It should be big, med, & fined boned miniatures. IMO

There are miniatures out there that do look closly like a arab and I even tricked a arab owner/breeder the other day at work. She said this pic I showed her was "very very close" and was quite impressed.

 

[ClickMini]

This is the closest I have to "Arabian-type." I agree with a previous poster who thinks people place this label on a mini they believe has: 1) a beautiful head and neck, clean throatlatch and set high. 2) flat croup. 3) Delicate features and appearance. As another previous poster mentions, there are several sub-types even in the Arabian breed.

Finch Meadow Esprit

In answer to your question about your own horses, I feel both #2 and #3 would be typical of what people would label Arabian-type. What gorgeous animals.

 

[Tab]

My first horse was an Egyptian-bred Arabian. They are a favorite breed with presence but I much prefer the miniature horse temperament.

Egyptian Arabians are larger, heavier, hardier, and more angular than the show Arabians I've seen in the US. I think the third horse looks most like an Arabian. High tail set, good bone, and dishy face.

The second looks like a halter-class Arabian. Very refined, but it's a baby, hard to judge. I like to see some bone and substance. Besides a slight dish to the head the first doesn't look Arabian at all.

High tail set, short back, dished face, small muzzle, good bone, hard hooves, and small, well placed "magnetic ears." I think "Arabian Type" is overused also. There are some that look more like Arabians than others though. That is the fun of minis, you can have just about any "breed type" of mini.

Example, Great Maharaja

 

[ruffian]

Sorry but I feel this has what once again was supposed to be a fun thread has become a mud sling thread and compleatly went the other way then intended. If theres NO type araby miniatures then everyone should'nt use terms of drafty or QH type either. It should be big, med, & fined boned miniatures. IMO

There are miniatures out there that do look closly like a arab and I even tricked a arab owner/breeder the other day at work. She said this pic I showed her was "very very close" and was quite impressed.

Now see I don't see any mudslinging or nasty comments in this thread??? I think it's a fun thread with lots of positive responses

 

[dreaminmini]

Here is my little "arabian" type.

 

[REO]

It personally bothers me when people say that pro pics are altered.

I know some are!!!

But those statements cause people to look at ALL horses in pro pics as "It must be photoshopped". It bothers me that people will look at MY stallions and think they are fake.

Let me tell you, Lotto was NOT photoshopped in any way in his Liz pics. That is how he looked in person! True he doesn't walk around with his neck hooked, but he can do it (and does) on occasion.

I was there, feet away from Pooka as he got his Liz pics taken. I was standing next to her as she took them. He was breathtaking and I had tears running down my face at his beauty. And Liz herself (who has seen the best) said BEAUTIFUL!!! About 20 times as she shot film! She loved him!

Yup, off topic LOL!

But I wanted to finally say how I feel when people say pro pics are fake and it makes me feel like they're causing people to doubt MY horses.

I am not bothered by people saying a mini is draft TYPE or TB TYPE or Arab TYPE. They are only saying what type the horse is, not claiming the horse IS that other breed. Well, some kinda do and I roll my eyes LOL.

To me it's like someone using a word to describe, like, instead of saying a horse is sorrel, it's copper colored sorrel. They're not saying it is copper, just describing the shade or color.

No need to "tear me a new one" saying no one WAS talking about my Liz pic stallions, I only wanted to share my feelings about it and stand up for my boys!

 

[SHANA]

I have been in arabians for 20 years and the third mini looks more like a arabian to me. Here are some pictures of my polish/crabbet arabian mare.

Also here is a video of her in 2004,

 

[disneyhorse]

I want to agree that not all professional pictures are "PhotoShopped". I have had the pleasure of having a horse in a Liz shoot, and there is no doubt that she or her handlers know what they are doing when posing a horse. They can get expression and presence out of most horses, they know the tricks to get it done in an efficient manner, too. The person behind the camera lens usually knows the most flattering angles to shoot the horse from, that will minimize showing flaws. This generally eliminates the need for any PhotoShopping beyond maybe editing out a lead line, which never bothers me.

And yes, people are saying Arabian TYPE, not ARABIAN minis. TYPE does not bother me, it gives people an opportunity to express some of the features the horse has. If I wanted to put a mini draft hitch together, I wouldn't be shopping for Arabian type minis. I'd want draft type. Doesn't mean the horse is a mirror image of it's larger breed counterpart, just resembles it.

However, this "resemblance" is often mistaken by some people, and any dish to the head or the ability for the stallion to hook it's neck when talking to a mare even if the neck is set low and short, will make the person think "Hmmm, yep maybe it's Arabian type!"

Andrea

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Saying something is "Araby" or "Arab type" does not bother me at all, some are and it was I am breeding towards. It is when people think they look like an Arabian I get a little worried!

And as to photoshopping, well, you can see quite easily the ones that have had it done, so as far as I can see it is pointless. There is one heck of a lot of difference between a really good photographer who just gets those priceless pictures, and one who take good pictures of a mediocre horse then fiddles around with them!

I do not see the point, I never shall, and the pictures look ridiculous. I would never buy a horse form one of the places that has these pictures up....

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I agree its arabian type not arabian miniatures. Sure your not going to get a miniature that absoutely resembles an arabian, but you can breed for that certain type.

When it comes to professional pictures you just got to be smart enough and ask for regular home shots. I think its important to just get both sides of the horse, a front and hind shot, a head shot, and a bite shot, and possibly a moving shot. I don't see anything wrong with breeders getting professional photos done on their horses and putting them on their site. But they also need those regular home shots as well when they are selling a horse. What sends a red flag is all they show is the pro shots when they try and sell you a horse, and not go out to the barn and take pictures on their own.

 

[Reble]

Here are 3 pictures they say are arab so different to me.

someone explain? Our Minis just look refined not sure they look Arab.

I agree arab type.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

JMS , I do not think anyone ever gets the "dolled up" pictures by accident