AOTE Survey

[mistyrose]

What about allowing another amateur clip the horse as long as they receive nothing for it, in cash or trade?

As for waiting a year after a trainer had the horse, How are you going to know who messed with the horse in the last year if you didn't own it. If I buy a horse in 2007 I can't show it AOTE until 2009? The majority of people don't show untl April or May at the earliest unless it is a horse with a trainer. In which case it can't show AOTE anyway. If this is a real problem in Florida or Texas just don't offer any AOTE Classes at your shows until April or May.

This is another thing that would be impossible to police.

I think if you want to allow a youth to show your AOTE horse you should be able to declare them a defacto relative 30 days before the first show. That would prevent the catch handling by the youth which makes everyone upset and allow mentoring of youth by those with interest and time.

 

[Kendra]

I think if you want to allow a youth to show your AOTE horse you should be able to declare them a defacto relative 30 days before the first show. That would prevent the catch handling by the youth which makes everyone upset and allow mentoring of youth by those with interest and time.

:aktion033: A very good option! Eliminates the reason I was told that it was against the rules, but still allows for truly interested youth who would otherwise not have the opportunity.

 

[wpsellwood]

What about allowing another amateur clip the horse as long as they receive nothing for it, in cash or trade?

Still defeating the purpose. The AOTE class is about complete turnout. To me that includes clipping. Keep opening it up and its going to end up gone and be left with amt only. JMO though I understand that others have medical problems to me that would be the only reason, if you cant do a good job learn thats what I have done and countless others.

Edit to add: I just dont get it, why people want to have others clip their horses why they dont want to do it themselves unless medical?

 

[Crabby-Chicken]

Good thoughts on AOTE. I really REALLY agree that it should stay the same,,, as in NO one helps with the horse. ( and NO that does not mean proffesional care in keeping your horse healthy and safe, farrier and vet.) If you can't find a way to do that, you are in luck, there is amateur. It is nice to have ONE place to go to show people you don't let anyone else help you. A friend of mine who is an amateur, wanted to show my horse in open, did I get to show AOTE this year then???? No,, is that fair, darn right. That was my choice.

If there is a way, Bill, to tighten it up so that that horse can't be handled by a trainer for a longer time before the show,,, I am all for it! I am just not sure how to word it.

 

[Millstone Farm]

I don't think we should change AOTE at all, even for medical reasons. I have a bad back. I still clip my own horses and clean stalls, work them and do all the training and grooming. This is the price I pay for wanting to show in the AOTE division. It's my choice and I qualify for that division. If I didn't, then I wouldn't be there.

What's to determine (and who will be doing that determining) which medical conditions meet the criteria for being disabled "enough" to allow you to hire someone to do your grooming? Does AMHA really want to go there? I wouldn't want them to. It would open them up to potential lawsuits.

Clipping is part of the grooming and show prep. If you allow just clipping, why not let a pro do the facial and all of the primping that's done just before you go in the ring? And if they do that, then they are handling the horse just before it goes in the ring. And by handling the horse, I mean HANDLING as in possibly doing what I've heard pros call "tuning up" a horse before it goes in the ring. That's a very subtle thing but wow, what a difference it might make on a horse's performance in the class.

You can't open the door even a little -- it's like being a "little pregnant."

And as for declaring an exemption for youth who are not related to you, what about those youth who are for all intent and purpose young pros? We've got them in my region, so I'm sure they are everywhere. Who determines who is a "youth pro" and who isnt???

 

[wpsellwood]

I totally agree with you

I don't think we should change AOTE at all, even for medical reasons.

What I meant on the medical part was, why people that have nothing wrong with them want to have someone else clip their horse. The only reason I could see a person wanting to change the rule is if you physicalyl couldnt do it. But if you cant do that how can you show the horse???I dont think there should be any exception should of explained that better.

 

[Margo_C-T]

:aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: Jenifer! WELL-stated, and right on target! I agree in every way!

Margo

 

[Kim]

As I stated previously, the reason why I am in favor of allowing somebody else to clip PERFORMANCE horses is because I don't think that a clip job gives you any advantage at all in the driving ring.

It's not that I can't clip my own horses - I have clipped Grand, Supreme and World titled halter horses - it's just that for me, now that I am no longer a student, time is really at a premium, and it's getting really hard to find time to get to shows. If I could get someone else (I am thinking an amateur friend) to clip my AOTE performance-only horses it would mean that I wouldn't have to take an extra day off work per show just to do the clipping, which in turn would mean that I could show more and support the AOTE program more.

Let's say I am competing in an AOTE Pleasure Driving class at a show in April. I have trained my horse completely myself (actually, a professional trainer has never touched any of my show horses in their lives), but I did get a friend of mine to clip my horse for me before the show. My competitor is showing last year's World Grand Champion Pleasure Driving horse - she left it with its trainer until Dec. 30, brought it home, clipped it herself before this show, and is now driving it in the same AOTE class as I am in. Who really has the advantage? Me, who did 100% of my horse's training but who couldn't take time off work to clip, or my competitor who had a pro train her horse to drive? Clipping is really such a tiny part of the equation in a driving class that I don't think that it makes any difference whatsoever if an AOTE competitor has a friend clip their horse for them. Halter, of course, is a different story, and AOTEs should have to clip their own halter horses.

 

[Kendra]

And as for declaring an exemption for youth who are not related to you, what about those youth who are for all intent and purpose young pros? We've got them in my region, so I'm sure they are everywhere. Who determines who is a "youth pro" and who isnt???

I know there would be those who would abuse it. I just think that it's worth it if more people will help introduce a youth to showing Miniature Horses.

 

[Millstone Farm]

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I no longer show in performance classes -- but doesn't grooming count in some performance classes ? It used to in showmanship. I don't know if it does in hunter or driving.

I still say it's like being a little pregnant, sorry.

 

[wpsellwood]

Man a whole day to clip a horse, wow no wonder you want help :bgrin . I work a 50 hr week and I clip anywhere from 3-4 horses to take to a show. I do it after I get off of work at night no help. Sorry no sympathy here

 

[Kim]

Man a whole day to clip a horse, wow no wonder you want help :bgrin . I work a 50 hr week and I clip anywhere from 3-4 horses to take to a show. I do it after I get off of work at night no help. Sorry no sympathy here

:new_shocked:

Well that was a bit rude!

In response to your post, though, yes, it does take me a whole day to clip my show string if I'm showing 7 or 8 horses, which I frequently have done in the past. If I worked 50 hours a week, I wouldn't have a problem finding time to clip that many before each show, but I frequently work way more than that.

The AOTE survey seemed to me to be geared toward finding out how to increase participation in the AOTE program and my previous posts were simply stating that this proposed rule change would be a way of doing so without diminishing the intent of the program. Clipping's not difficult, it's just time consuming, and I honestly don't think that having a friend clip an AOTE horse would give anyone an advantage in AOTE driving classes, especially since the division is not entirely a 'do it yourself' division in the first place. It never will be when you're allowed to send your horse off to get professionally trained, bring it home on Dec. 31st and show it in AOTE in January.

Correct me if I'm wrong, since I no longer show in performance classes -- but doesn't grooming count in some performance classes ? It used to in showmanship. I don't know if it does in hunter or driving.

I still say it's like being a little pregnant, sorry.

You're right, grooming does count in Showmanship, so maybe that class could be excluded as well as halter? In driving and hunter, though, grooming is not really part of what you're judged on - you're judged on the horse's performance. (Within reason, of course - you wouldn't want to take in a completely fuzzy horse!)