Anyone here seize horses?
- Thread starter Marty
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I am in the midst of a legal tangle. Do not know if you would call it a seizure.
It was brought to my sister's attention that a hrose she used to own was in a near death situation. She called me to see if I could keep Horse X. Since I have miniatures and space I was the logical one to call. (She would never have called me if it had been a big horse.) There is a lot of detail, but the LAW says she took it without the owner's permission. They ("owners") filed charges against her. I went to the sheriff and signed an affadavit that the horse is in my possession and she can stay till situation is resolved. They were fine with that.
3 weeks go by. I go to the sheriff this week to ask about the case. They have very strange looks on their faces, rather somber, and say it has been turned over to the DA and I must go over there. (I am in a small town, thank goodness, and my horse, Dapper Dan, is well known locally; he is a very good public relations representative.) I go to the DA's office. Paperwork on his desk; he has not looked at it yet. Leave my phone number. I tell the secretary I am trying to find out my responsibility in the case with the horse, since I've had her 3 weeks and supposed it would only be a few days. She takes my name/phone number.
Go in next day to DA, thinking it would be better not to wait for a call. Secretary looks stern. She tells me I am in big trouble and criminal charges have been filed against my sister and I have received stolen property. I protest that I have informed the sheriff that the horse is on my property and was instructed not to move her. Secretary says I must return horse to the owners. I say fine, but I do not know who they are and I want the sheriff to come out and get her as I require a witness. She calls sheriff and tells them to arrange this.
My sister calls lawyer. She must pay $375 court costs and return horse. MAYBE charges will be dropped then. She is told that she is liable for arrest, including handcuffing!!!
So, seizure probably is not a good idea. Especially if you do not live in a friendly, rural community. Hindsight says she should have gone through legal channels. (The people's dogs were impounded for abuse the day after the horse incident.)
People who abuse animals are dispicable and usually have NOTHING to lose. They do not mind making trouble for other folks; someone else will pay the bill. And they usually have plenty of experience with beaurocracy to know how to work the system. Law abiding folks usually don't.
To be continued...
It was brought to my sister's attention that a hrose she used to own was in a near death situation. She called me to see if I could keep Horse X. Since I have miniatures and space I was the logical one to call. (She would never have called me if it had been a big horse.) There is a lot of detail, but the LAW says she took it without the owner's permission. They ("owners") filed charges against her. I went to the sheriff and signed an affadavit that the horse is in my possession and she can stay till situation is resolved. They were fine with that.
3 weeks go by. I go to the sheriff this week to ask about the case. They have very strange looks on their faces, rather somber, and say it has been turned over to the DA and I must go over there. (I am in a small town, thank goodness, and my horse, Dapper Dan, is well known locally; he is a very good public relations representative.) I go to the DA's office. Paperwork on his desk; he has not looked at it yet. Leave my phone number. I tell the secretary I am trying to find out my responsibility in the case with the horse, since I've had her 3 weeks and supposed it would only be a few days. She takes my name/phone number.
Go in next day to DA, thinking it would be better not to wait for a call. Secretary looks stern. She tells me I am in big trouble and criminal charges have been filed against my sister and I have received stolen property. I protest that I have informed the sheriff that the horse is on my property and was instructed not to move her. Secretary says I must return horse to the owners. I say fine, but I do not know who they are and I want the sheriff to come out and get her as I require a witness. She calls sheriff and tells them to arrange this.
My sister calls lawyer. She must pay $375 court costs and return horse. MAYBE charges will be dropped then. She is told that she is liable for arrest, including handcuffing!!!
So, seizure probably is not a good idea. Especially if you do not live in a friendly, rural community. Hindsight says she should have gone through legal channels. (The people's dogs were impounded for abuse the day after the horse incident.)
People who abuse animals are dispicable and usually have NOTHING to lose. They do not mind making trouble for other folks; someone else will pay the bill. And they usually have plenty of experience with beaurocracy to know how to work the system. Law abiding folks usually don't.
To be continued...
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
So, I guess someone who runs the CMHR board for LB didn't appreciate my simple advice posted half a week or so ago to be VERY careful because horse seizure if you're not a legal authority is a/k/a horse theft. My simple and "to the point" post was deleted. What a wise way to moderate and look after every member's best interest...
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
It was here after I posted it, and now it's gone. Yes, I am sure it was deleted...As to the reason... Please, it's not "rocket surgery". I must not have said what the OP or CMHR wanted to hear even though what I said was a plainly expressed and concise opinion.
I'm pretty sure moderators can view things that have been blocked from public view. If so, it's easy to take a look and see that I said nothing that wasn't sincere advice, short and to the point.
I understand abusive posts being deleted, inflammatory posts, or vulgar posts. However, a simply stated (and quite valid) opinion? No, that's not right and in my experience, that is NOT the LB way. Not at all.
PS it was from THIS thread that it was deleted, so NOT a purged away situation.
I'm pretty sure moderators can view things that have been blocked from public view. If so, it's easy to take a look and see that I said nothing that wasn't sincere advice, short and to the point.
I understand abusive posts being deleted, inflammatory posts, or vulgar posts. However, a simply stated (and quite valid) opinion? No, that's not right and in my experience, that is NOT the LB way. Not at all.
PS it was from THIS thread that it was deleted, so NOT a purged away situation.
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Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
If Marty wants to explain why she deleted my post, she's got my email address. Thanks for letting me know that only CMHR / Marty runs this part of LB.
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People who act impulsively, even out of a good heart, can sure get into hot water. And usually they take other people into the hot water too. I don't know the answers, but I do know the law can be a giant millstone that will grind you into the dust if you get on the wrong side of it.
And impulsive people seem to be quick to criticize the ones who want to slow down and think things through. It's better to think about what one would do in a situation and have a plan. It's good to discuss this seizure issue; being able to present well thought out alternative options to an impulsive rescuer could help keep everyone out of hot water.
And impulsive people seem to be quick to criticize the ones who want to slow down and think things through. It's better to think about what one would do in a situation and have a plan. It's good to discuss this seizure issue; being able to present well thought out alternative options to an impulsive rescuer could help keep everyone out of hot water.
Sorry about that Jill. I was attempting to do the quote thing where you "frame" one of your sentences and failed miserably and made a mess of that and my reply so I deleted both our responses and tried to start over and couldn't restore. Never did use that feature. I better stick to copy and past because that's how I also goofed up on our cheer leading thread and lost a few there. Again sorry.
The actual title of the thread should have been "Are there any Animal Officers here that seize horses"
Anyhow, the sentence I was trying to quote from Jill was:
VERY careful because horse seizure if you're not a legal authority is a/k/a horse theft.
And my response was "Absolutely". Very important sentence. You cannot take the law into your own hands by no means because you can surely get yourself into lots of trouble.
I was a court appointed equine impounding Agent in Florida. Some might think its a feeling of euphoria when you can charge in and save an animal. But the truth is it is not like that and it can be very upsetting. Not a fun thing to do. But as Jill pointed out the last thing anyone needs to be doing is to make an attempt to seize on your own. Very dangerous.
The actual title of the thread should have been "Are there any Animal Officers here that seize horses"
Anyhow, the sentence I was trying to quote from Jill was:
VERY careful because horse seizure if you're not a legal authority is a/k/a horse theft.
And my response was "Absolutely". Very important sentence. You cannot take the law into your own hands by no means because you can surely get yourself into lots of trouble.
I was a court appointed equine impounding Agent in Florida. Some might think its a feeling of euphoria when you can charge in and save an animal. But the truth is it is not like that and it can be very upsetting. Not a fun thing to do. But as Jill pointed out the last thing anyone needs to be doing is to make an attempt to seize on your own. Very dangerous.
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Geesh Marsha that is a mess. I know around here you can not just venture onto anyone's property and remove and animal without the owner's permission or that would certainly constitue a theft. That would be a good way to get shot. I'm so sorry and hope the matter is resolved.
There used to be a clause in one of the Fla. Statues that basically said that anyone could enter on someones property and act in an emergency situation if for a humane reason. However back then the Fla. Statues were written as "Abuse of Children and Animals" both in the same statues. For instance if you saw a child drowning in a pool as you passed by, you as a stranger or a Good Samaritan could go and save the child and not be charged with a trespassing act or if you saw say for instance a cow tangled up in a fence and stopped to help, the tresspassing law would not apply. I have been looking around for those statues and they must have been changed by now.
There used to be a clause in one of the Fla. Statues that basically said that anyone could enter on someones property and act in an emergency situation if for a humane reason. However back then the Fla. Statues were written as "Abuse of Children and Animals" both in the same statues. For instance if you saw a child drowning in a pool as you passed by, you as a stranger or a Good Samaritan could go and save the child and not be charged with a trespassing act or if you saw say for instance a cow tangled up in a fence and stopped to help, the tresspassing law would not apply. I have been looking around for those statues and they must have been changed by now.
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
Marty, sorry, but I do not believe that you accidentally erased my post. Based on my experience helping with the former Youth Forum, I know that it's not that easy to flat out delete another member's post...
Riverdance
Well-Known Member
Jill,
Marty is one of the nicest people, never has a nasty thing to say to anyone or about anyone on this forum. Take what she says to be the truth and move on....
Marty is one of the nicest people, never has a nasty thing to say to anyone or about anyone on this forum. Take what she says to be the truth and move on....
Jill
Aspiring Cowgirl
I'm not running for prom queen, but I'm also not stupid and not going to pretend that I am. We all have our own perspectives and experiences with one another. Trust me, that's a real big for sure. I'm happy to move on unless someone wants to continue to press.
The horse was not on the peoples' property. It was at a "neutral" place. It's complicated.
Anyway, I am meeting a deputy at a sale barn (another neutral place) at 5 pm today to leave the horse. I'm sure I will cry. Dusty will miss her; they have enjoyed each other so much. She runs along the fence and whinneys when I take him away to drive in the cart.
I'm not sure OK has a good samaritan law.
MBennettp
Well-Known Member
I have been involved in many seizures over the last 40 years of doing rescues. I still get calls occasionally from the sheriff to go with them to check on the welfare of animals.
I will tell you that seizure is the last step that law enforcement will do and charges are generally filed at the same time or before the animals are removed.
This is sometimes a very dangerous thing to do. I have had a gun pulled on me by an owner that was trying to keep me from checking on her horses. Fortunately for me, the sheriff took her down and she went to jail. She had several big horses that were in horrible shape. Her grandfather had turned her in because the horses would go days with no food and when we arrived, there was about an inch of dust in the water buckets but no water to be seen.
I have been involved in some that were so sad that I would come home and cry for hours. I went out on one that every horse on the place had to be put down, they were so far gone they couldn't stand and wouldn't even try to eat or drink. That one still haunts me. There were dead dogs chained all over the property.
I would never try to do a seizure without law enforcement with me as you can get shot or go to jail just as fast as the abuser if you cross the line.
Seizure is sad, hard work and also dangerous.
Fortunately for the animals in our county, our county sheriff's office is right on it if there is a report of abuse and if the abuse claim is substantiated will take it to the fullest extent of the law.
Not all abuse reports are accurate, a lot of the time, it is false claims yet every claim is checked out thoroughly.
I have had a person call in on my horses that they are starving and it was immediately checked. The sheriff showed up at my door, and told me he didn't even know there were horses there but I took him straight to the barn and he laughed when he saw all my fat kids. A lady that I had gone with the sheriff to check her animals had called and asked that my "poor starving animals" be seized and charges filed.
Anyone that knows me knows that if anything, my animals are all too fat.
Keep in mind that there are way more false reports than actual cases. Never go onto another person's property without law enforcement to back you up, it is just too dangerous.
I will tell you that seizure is the last step that law enforcement will do and charges are generally filed at the same time or before the animals are removed.
This is sometimes a very dangerous thing to do. I have had a gun pulled on me by an owner that was trying to keep me from checking on her horses. Fortunately for me, the sheriff took her down and she went to jail. She had several big horses that were in horrible shape. Her grandfather had turned her in because the horses would go days with no food and when we arrived, there was about an inch of dust in the water buckets but no water to be seen.
I have been involved in some that were so sad that I would come home and cry for hours. I went out on one that every horse on the place had to be put down, they were so far gone they couldn't stand and wouldn't even try to eat or drink. That one still haunts me. There were dead dogs chained all over the property.
I would never try to do a seizure without law enforcement with me as you can get shot or go to jail just as fast as the abuser if you cross the line.
Seizure is sad, hard work and also dangerous.
Fortunately for the animals in our county, our county sheriff's office is right on it if there is a report of abuse and if the abuse claim is substantiated will take it to the fullest extent of the law.
Not all abuse reports are accurate, a lot of the time, it is false claims yet every claim is checked out thoroughly.
I have had a person call in on my horses that they are starving and it was immediately checked. The sheriff showed up at my door, and told me he didn't even know there were horses there but I took him straight to the barn and he laughed when he saw all my fat kids. A lady that I had gone with the sheriff to check her animals had called and asked that my "poor starving animals" be seized and charges filed.
Anyone that knows me knows that if anything, my animals are all too fat.
Keep in mind that there are way more false reports than actual cases. Never go onto another person's property without law enforcement to back you up, it is just too dangerous.
Gee, Mary, you've had some harrowing experiences. I do not think I would have the mental fortitude for that.
I jumped in on this post with my experience, and it wasn't exactly what the topic meant. I presume "seizure" is a legal definition: legal taking of someone's possession that he doesn't willingly relinquish. That is not the same thing as horse theft!, which is what I unknowingly got into.
I jumped in on this post with my experience, and it wasn't exactly what the topic meant. I presume "seizure" is a legal definition: legal taking of someone's possession that he doesn't willingly relinquish. That is not the same thing as horse theft!, which is what I unknowingly got into.
