anybody have experience treating lyme disease?

[NickelsChram]

My little guy has not been feeling well for quite some time, and he has lost a significant amount of weight. When he first started losing weight we attributed it to stress since this year was his first year showing,and he would seem to gain a little in between each show. My mother and I thought that once show season was over he would gain the weight back. And for a little while he did. Then all the sudden he started losing again and wouldn't gain it back.At that point my feeding program was not very suited to his needs so I made some changes and upped his feed and thought that would solve the problem.( went from about 1 cup to 3). This is a little horse that before we got him was getting 1/2 a cup of feed, 4 flakes of hay twice a day and on a dry lot and we thought he was a bit pudgy. We bought him and he was out on full turn out on grass(not very lush grass) and got round bales (not by himself he shared with 8 others). He was in with 8 other minis 5 of which were pretty chubby, he was the only one that needed feed, so I would just feed him whenever I came. I thought that if I could go feed him more often he would gain, but even when he was fed more regularly and his feed upped he still looked terrible. So I called hte vet and he came out and did a thorough physical and drew blood. He thinks its Lyme disease.Our barn owner always has horses come up with lyme disease,and she has been in buisness a long time, and currently has two being treated in their own little lyme paddock,and there are deer everywhere and they often cut through the horse pastures. He sent blood off to be tested but said that you can often get false negatives with Lyme testing, and has decided to give him the Lyme treatment for two weeks. If he improves and improves drastically then we will keep up with the treatment, if not we go back to square one.But the blood work did not indicate any other problems, and he really believes it is lyme.

I have herd some different opinions on Lyme disease and want to hear from anyone who has had experience treating a mini for Lyme disease. Did they ever have reoccurring symptoms after being treated for Lyme disease? If their symptoms did come back, were they the same symptoms as before or did thay change? I know lyme disease can affect their body's in different ways. And did it give you any problems with lameness?

thanks in advanced for any advice anybody could give me, ive been so worried about him and its been terrible waiting for test results and then having them give you no real answer. im just glad hes being treated even if he doesn't have a solid diagnosis yet i feel like at least something is being done.Im just worried about how healthy he will be in the future.

 

[JAX]

I have no answers for you, I am very sorry to hear your guy is going through this. I did have a thought though. Many many years back my big horses were in an area with lots of ticks and deer. They were covered with ticks. An older "farmer" told me to try getting a yellow salt block for them. I believe its a sulfer salt block??

Anyway... no more ticks on the horses!!!

Luckily now that the horses are here at home we dont seem to have that problem anymore. I dont know if there are any reasons not to give a horse a sulfer salt block. I think I'd have to look into it before doing it with the minis, I swear if someones gonna have a reaction to it, it will be a mini!!!!

Just figured if you have other horses and a problem with Lymes that maybe if you can keep the ticks off them you wouldnt have several more that have to be treated? So Sorry

 

[NickelsChram]

Thank you. I will defiantly look into it. We find a tick or two now and then, but no one seems to really be covered in ticks. either that or we never see them. But our barn owner had been boarding horses for 20 years and she has treated many many horse for Lyme disease. So if there is a way to help keep them off the horses we will definitely consider trying it.

 

[targetsmom]

I live in CT where Lyme disease originated and it is unfortunately quite common here in many species, including horses. The symptoms can be almost anything - from lameness to non-specific issues like pacing the stall and suddenly not being "on the bit". Sometimes the testing doesn't give you a definitive answer, especially if you only get a titer done. You should also get the Western blot for more information. My big horse Target was the first of my horses with Lyme and his first Lyme Titer was close enough to normal that he wasn't treated. (The titer only shows they have antibodies, meaning they were exposed). Then a couple of years later he came up "three-legged lame" on a front leg and 2 vets and 2 farriers thought he had an abscess. Turns out it was Lyme and he was treated and has had no more issues. Target is now 25 and has survived colic surgery twice, and the Lyme 7-8 years ago.

Our mini with Lyme developed it about 2 1/2 years ago with stiffness/general lameness as the main sign. She was treated in the spring with Doxyclycline but one round of treatment didn't cure her. She was tested again in the fall and treated again and that time apparently worked. We had been trying to breed her for several years and we finally gave up last year because we were never able to get her bred. We had bought her as a proven broodmare with 2 gorgeous foals on the ground. Not sure if the Lyme had anything to do with that or not.

Good luck with your boy. I have been to talks about Lyme that suggest that one round of treatment often is not enough and some vets in this area treat intravenously instead of with oral antibiotics. I would wait and cross one bridge at a time.

ETA: Deer ticks are TINY and not the ones you usually see on horses. But I do try to use a fly spray that is strong enough to deter deer ticks - read labels carefully, because some are that strong.

Another thought: Have you or your vet considered ULCERS? You might try some Gastroguard to see if that helps.

 

[NickelsChram]

Thank you for the reply. I'm not sure if the vet has thought of ulcers, if he did he didn't mention it to me. I will definitely bring it up. He certainly could have ulcers from all the traveling/show stress. He could possibly have ulcers together with Lyme making it even harder to put weight on him.

 

[NickelsChram]

thank you for the suggestion. 5 of his pasture mates just moved,(they were the ones who were very fat) and since they left we switched from sweet feed to Purina mini horse and pony feed and he is getting about 3 cups twice a day(forgot to add that in the first post). So hopefully we are getting on the right track. we waited a while to switch because we knew the other minis were leaving since their owner bought a new house w space for the minis, and honestly its easier to feed 4 instead of 9. and that way its easier to make sure each horse is getting the amount of feed that they need. feeding time has turned into a partially peaceful experience instead of an all out feeding frenzy, not unlike what you see with sharks lol. now everyone stays at their own bucket and eat whats given to them and its wonderful.oh and he is 8 years old.I totaly know what you mean about the belly. i will post the pics i have when we first got him, but we just thought he was a bit cresty and that we needed to be monitor him was all.

this is nicky when we first got him

 

[NickelsChram]

thank you. yes were also hoping a better food twice a day will make a difference. Sorry to hear your son had trouble with lyme. apparently 30% of people have some thing that's genetic that causes them to not respond well to lyme treatment, at least thats what my vet said( not an exact quote). I know a few people who have had it and its awful because they often are misdiagnosed. my BO had a doctor refuse to test her for lyme disease, he just said oh no you don't have that and totally refused to test her(she ended up getting tested by another doctor and it came back negative). apparently horses respond very well though.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Lyme is a bit controversial as we really don't know as much about it in horses as we would like to.

Many horses are positive, but whether or not that indicates true disease is up for debate. It is generally universally believed that a Western Blot is the best test.

The difficult choice with treating Lyme is that the drug of choice is Doxycycline, but that drug can create pretty significant disease relatively often, so risk/reward needs to be well thought out in advance.

Dr Taylor

 

[NickelsChram]

Well Nicky has been on doxycycline for two weeks with little/no improvement. I tried to lounge him the other day to see if he felt any better, or had any more energy and I could not no matter what I did to get him to trot even a few strides. All he did was walk very very slowly. I eventually gave up and tried to get him to trot in hand, and could barely get him to do that. mid summer I had him trotting perfectly next to me when I picked up my pace and stopping as soon I stopped. So now im not really sure whats next, going to call the vet tomorrow and see what the wants to do. Hes gonna have a hard winter if we don't get him at least started on something to help him soon. We don't have stalls just a run in. He can be blanketed but its easier to stay warm when you feel like moving around, and have some weight to keep you warm. Hopefully well get an answer soon.

heres a pic from the other day when he really wanted my peanut butter cracker.(i know you guys like pictures and he has such a sweet face)

 

[lilnickers]

Is Nicky eating better now? After 2 weeks, he should be eating well again, although he may still be sore in his joints.

My stallion was diagnosed with Lyme disease in July and is still on Doxycycline.He also tested positive for Potomac.

His first symptoms were appetite loss and lameness.Once treatment began, within 3 days, his appetite was back.After an entire month,his lameness was gone. The vet feels treatment for Lyme should continue for 6 months for a complete cure.

I would think exercise may not be a good idea for a while, as Nicky's joints are still healing.

Wishing the best for your boy, keep us posted. Hope your vet can help you.

 

[NickelsChram]

Nicky never went off his feed, though we did change it at the same time he started treatment. He also isn't lame but he doesn't want to move faster than a slow walk he reminds me of my old horse who's 26 and has mild arthritis on a bad day. He just seems kinda stiff. He's also very very underwight despite large amounts of good hay and food. If he had lyme and the treatment worked id expect to see at lease a tiny improvement with in 2 weeks, like him having some more engergy or him moving like the 8 year old he is, not the 26 year old hes acting like right now. I only gave him the super tiney bit of excersize to try to see any improvement, like if he had more energy or was moving any better. So at this point i don't think he has lyme disease, but it also means I don't have any clue whats wrong with him. But thank you for sharing your experience with lyme disease, and im glad to hear your guy got better.

 

[Eagle]

Could you do blood tests again to see if anything has changed in these 2 weeks? Sorry I have no experience with lyme but it is just an idea.

I will pray he gets better soon.

Renee

 

[mizbeth]

Hi

If you are saying that photo listed is a fat horse, I would disagree. I think he has a bit of tummy, probably due to the hay, but not fat by any means. You can still see the top of his back/bone in the photos. Yes, more protein would help him immensely, it would even out his body shape, help with extended tummy - and of course general health and well being. My thoughts are this tho., 5 lbs of Purina - any kind of feed on these horses is too much. Cresty necks can of course be from too much feed, especially the fat in it, but most of the time it is genetic. Stallions simply need neck sweats 24/7 from the time you realize you are going to show them at age 1 year ish on. Some horses now do really have nice natural thin necks, but the older will not.

If the meds aren't working and they appear not to be, try the ulcer meds. How does he eat? Does he eat all at one time or go back and forth to it? The grain I mean. Hay will be easier for them to eat with upset stomach or ulcers, grain they won't be able to tolerate for very long before leaving the feed bucket.

Good luck!

Do you have photos of him now?

* Try feeding him very wet shredded beet pulp, that should help him eat. A good two cups of it two or more times a day. You can also buy food grade molasses at the feed store - tractor supply. It is very cheap and add it to his feed to encourage him to eat. If he has an ulcer though, the sweetness will aggravate it.

** from looking at the photo of him you posted with his head through the fence it "appears" that his belly is protruding? Does he have a big belly? Can you post a full body shot of him? Did you say what type of grain you were feeding, and how much of it? Also how much hay is he getting? Have you dewormed him? Try deworming again or put him on 5 day purge with safeguard/panacur. Or use Equimax, that might be a better idea actually. Just wait at least two weeks from the last deworming if you have just done it recently.

*** also regular feedings at the same time each day, two times a day should help,(or 3 times a day) it sounds as though you were feeding him randomly, when ever you had time to go see him?

 

[NickelsChram]

He is now getting 3 cups of Purina mini horse feed for breakfast and 3 cups for dinner every day. there was a point where i was feeding him randomly whenever I saw him, but since 5 other minis have moved every one is getting fed twice a day now. He is eating his feed just fine, never walks away from it never even pauses, and always licks the bottom of the bucket to make sure he didn't miss any.He is getting about two flakes of hay twice a day. He is pasture fed so they hay might not be totally accurate.

He does have a bigger belly wich im hoping will be fixed by the extra protein the mini feed, but he has only been on that for two weeks so it will take some more time we see any improvement. My next step is going to be a 5 day worming. But Ive been waiting because the vet wanted to do a fecal and then worm every one at the same time, but now I need to get another fecal because he forgot to send in the first one. The first pictures were from a year ago so that is not what he looks like now, but I don't have any pic of him right now but i will work on that.

 

[mizbeth]

A lot of horses when grazing will suck air. When they do their bellies will protrude. If he is off the grazing for a day or so, the belly should go down. You can try it and see, give him flakes of hay rather than turnout and of course his grain.

Do not know if sucking air/grazing has anything to do with teeth/problems or not. Just thought of the big belly/air thing as I had a colt that a professional trainer had, she showed him one weekend and I went to pick him up the next day or two. He was so round in the belly - I asked her if she showed him like that? NO! She said he has been out in the pasture since the show and explained to me what that meant. I have since learned this on my own horses that were turned out - watched what they looked like after a day of grazing, then in the barn overnight and geee............. a different horse the next morning!

Lots to know - isn't there????

Take care.

 

[Eagle]

wow, that's interesting, thanks