AMHR Nationals Poll

[kaykay]

And my point is that you cant really put "national quality" on a class it dont pertain. YOu cant say national quality jumping, when jumping is speed. YOu cant really say national quality liberty or color when that is all the judges preferance in likeing.

Okay ashely if we all subscribe to this theory that national quality doesnt pertain to jumper or liberty then the horse that wins jumper isnt really a national champion he or she is just a horse that jumps fast or a horse that goes around the ring pretty

thanks frankie! very good points that you put in type better then i can

added: we never saw them (amha trainers) on our circuit but they very well could have been on other ones. Im just going by what i was told at amha worlds and what people told me that were at amhr nationals. I think it would be very difficult to do both the amha and amhr circuits at the same time.

 

[bob r]

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH HOWEVER THEY WANT TO QUALIFY A HORSE, BUT WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS MUTLIPLE JUDGES IN "EVERY" CLASS. I COMPETED IN THE GELDING INCENTIVE CLASS WHERE ONLY 1 JUDGE DID THE JUDGING. ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE ORIGIZATION. IN THAT CLASS THEY ANNOUNCED ONLY THE GRAND AND RESERVE AND DISMISSED THE REST OF THE CLASS. THEN LATER SAID WE MADE A MISTAKE, WE SHOULD HAVE PINNED THE TOP 10, ONLY TO ANNOUNCE THEM LATER BY THEIR NUMBER.

WHO KNOWS A HORSE BY HIS NUMBER, THEY SHOULD HAVE ANNOUNCED THE HORSES NAME AND PLACING. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR TO HEAR OUR NAME ANNOUNCED!!! AND THE PLACING WE GOT! I EVERN WENT TO THE OFFICE TO ASK IF THEY WOULD ANNOUNCE THE PLACINGS ALONG WITH THE NAME OF THE HORSE, BUT THEY WOULDN'T. --------------------------------------

THE WAY I SEE IT IS- IF IT AIN'T BROKE , DON'T FIX IT ( AS FAR AS AMHR AND AMHA NATIONALS. 1600 VS 900 + TELLS EVERYONE SOMETHING DOESN'T IT?

 

[Frankie]

THE WAY I SEE IT IS- IF IT AIN'T BROKE , DON'T FIX IT ( AS FAR AS AMHR AND AMHA NATIONALS. 1600 VS 900 + TELLS EVERYONE SOMETHING DOESN'T IT?

Well what that tells me is there were not horses in that show that never placed at the local level.

And as far as not being broke, I belive in that statement alot, but I also believe you have to repair the cracks BEFORE it does break. Those cracks I am speaking of are the same as you listed or close to, having only the 1 judge and the organization.

 

[Ashley]

OK, KayKay your right im wrong, we will just leave it at that.

 

[Lauralee]

Lets clarify something!

BELINDA said she saw the judges reading the program book at AMHA WORLD SHOW ....NOT at the R Nationals!!!! Lyn, your post is deceiving.

 

[Magic]

I was discussing this with friends while at the AMHR Nationals show, and our opinion was, one way to keep from having a three-way split for one driving class (yes, nearly 90 horses in ONE driving class made it necessary to split it three ways and then take the top eight from each split for the final class) was to change the classes from "34 and Under" to "32 to 34" and "30 to 32" and "30 and under". Now, some of the classes were split that way, but not a lot of them. That would save time, as they could conceivably have just ONE class instead of three splits plus the final, for one class. Yes, it adds the number of scheduled classes, but it may still save time.

Same thing for the Youth Obstacle-- instead of having ALL youth, 18 and under, lumped together in one in huge, half-day class (and they all had to be IN the arena all those hours)-- divide the Youth Obstacle into 7 and Under, 8 to 12 and 13 to 18 age groups. That way the children and their parents and the horses aren't in the arena for six hours for ONE class. And it makes it possible for the younger children to actually place in that class.

As for qualifying, I'm really on the fence. Right now I think it may "self-correct", and many people will decline to enter a class so huge that they have a scant chance of placing in. If the show continues to grow by leaps and bounds (which is a good thing!) then something may need to be done, but right now I think that some changes in dividing the classes would help, and also it helps to get people talking about what the options are for the future.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Kay just to clarify i didnt mean it didnt take a top horse to do jumper i simply meant there was NO JUDGING needed it isnt subjective it is strictly done by timing and faults..in fact the judges could go to a lunch break then lol all they need is a steward to see if a horse gets faults for knocking down a fence but how they look getting over that fence is of no matter in jumping.

I know that A jumper is different then R in that A goes higher and higher but R is simply 2 rounds and fastest cleanest wins not highest jumper but then again I have only heard that about A jumper and could be wrong on how that is done

and you are right 5 years from now might need to change something but i say for now IMO proven by the quality and number of quality horses in the ring.. something is working right now

as far as the market.. I think it does show what a difference and how much better the market is.. what used to be considered throw away horses (and not to long ago i might add) and what used to be hidden in a back pasture well these horses are now going for well i saw and heard several deals going on at Nationals for 8-10,000 bucks that is a HUGE growth for our B size horses

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Sorry Laura Lee I will go fix it.... I know it was at the A Worlds.... Dont want to be decieving. Or percieved to be trying to be decietful. THanks for correcting. I dont show AMHA.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[tagalong]

After hearing Belinda say that she SAW a judge looking at the program book at the AMHA Worlds reading who was in the classes it make me never want to show anything in open again and if AMHR hires amha judges only again for the R nationals I wont show in anything but ammy and futurity there either. The #s in the open classes at worlds shows that most people dont enter unless they have a well kown trainer at the other end. I dont want R nationals to become like that and after the judging that section this year it seemed like it was headed in that direction.

Well at the AMHA Worlds... MANY big name trainers walked out of the ring without a top ten placing.... it happened over and over again. It simply is NOT always the case that only the trainers win. As far as entries go for both shows *shrug*... in another thread they compared the AMHA classes with the Under division ones at AMHR Nationals... and taking the splits into account (Level 1, Level 2 etc. ) - many of them worked out the same. So divide the AMHR totals in half (excluding the Over horses) and the totals work out fairly close. BTW - around here many of the trainers do both AMHA and AMHR shows... as their schedule permits.

And anyone who thinks jumping is merely getting over the rail.... ummm. No. A certain amount of athleticism and style is involved - not the finesse and rhythm of Hunter... but it should still be there. A horse cannot jump efficiently without the reach and the bascule - as opposed to many horses in the jumper class who simply run at the jumps and throw themselves at the rails. That would be like saying that every Warmblood jumper in a big show barn is automatically a Grand Prix - or even an A circuit - horse. And that is simply not the case.

I see nothing wrong with some kind of a limited qualification process....

Oh - and our farm shows both AMHA and AMHR... and thus had horses at both Worlds and Nationals...

 

[kaykay]

oh come on ashley i love a good debate

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

tagalong.. no one or should i say I didnt say it didnt take a horse with talent I simply said it doesnt take JUDGES for that class it is one of the very few if not the only class that is VERY BLACK AND WHITE no subjectiveness at all fastest horse clean round wins a horse who looks better form wise wont place any higher then one who might bunny hop or not get a spot right as long as time and faults are involved is all that I MEANT anyway

 

[Shelley]

I am one of those on the fence regarding the AMHR qualification issue.

I do think the youth classes need to have more divisions. Some of those kids were in the ring for HOURS and I can't see where that would be any fun for them. As well as more age divisions, how can a 7 year old compete with a 17 year old? And we want the young ones to stay interested, they are the "us" of tomorrow.

Yes, it would mean some more rosettes and trophies, but with the record number of youth entries (and money coming in from them) surely that cost could be covered?

Shelley

 

[tagalong]

I'm sorry Lisa

- I did understand you - I just failed to make myself clear. My fault - not yours!!

I just get frustrated when I hear over and over again that all a horse has to do in jumper is "get over the rail" when there is so much more to it than that. Blame my background slaving at Hunter/Jumper barns... of course "judges" per se are not needed... as the results are simply decided by faults and time....

 

[susanne]

What is so family-friendly about a show with classes stretching long after midnight? With classes so big that no judge could possibly give every horse a fair chance?

Where is the prestige in "qualifying" for a show that virtually allows anyone who owns a miniature horse to enter? What does "making it to Nationals" mean other than that you have the money to burn?

What is so elitist about setting a reasonable standard for the show that showcases our breed?

One of these days I plan to go to Nationals, but I'd prefer to have to work our butts off to get there...not simply have the money and time.

Perhaps there should be no pretense that this show represents the best of the best. Of course, all of those who are there just because they can certainly subsidize the event.

 

[Buckskin gal]

There is a whole lot to think about in what you have said and what I have been thinking about also. You say it so well.

What is so family-friendly about a show with classes stretching long after midnight? With classes so big that no judge could possibly give every horse a fair chance?
Where is the prestige in "qualifying" for a show that virtually allows anyone who owns a miniature horse to enter? What does "making it to Nationals" mean other than that you have the money to burn?

What is so elitist about setting a reasonable standard for the show that showcases our breed?

One of these days I plan to go to Nationals, but I'd prefer to have to work our butts off to get there...not simply have the money and time.

Perhaps there should be no pretense that this show represents the best of the best. Of course, all of those who are there just because they can certainly subsidize the event.

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[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

What is so family-friendly about a show with classes stretching long after midnight? With classes so big that no judge could possibly give every horse a fair chance?
Where is the prestige in "qualifying" for a show that virtually allows anyone who owns a miniature horse to enter? What does "making it to Nationals" mean other than that you have the money to burn?

What is so elitist about setting a reasonable standard for the show that showcases our breed?

One of these days I plan to go to Nationals, but I'd prefer to have to work our butts off to get there...not simply have the money and time.

Perhaps there should be no pretense that this show represents the best of the best. Of course, all of those who are there just because they can certainly subsidize the event.

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Ok susane you know I luv ya but....

Wow those are some pretty harsh words.. having not been there is it just possible that perhaps you arent aware or seeing the depth of the quality of these classes?

Money to burn.. hmmm yep that is right this single mom raising 2 girls and horses i just have way to much money to burn and it is only all my money (cough cough) that got my 8 yr old and me our top tens.. had NOTHING at all to do with the quality or our horses or the amount of work and learning that went into it at all- or the blood sweat and tears, the years of a program that is getting better and yes still has years to go nope not any of that strictly my overflow of money that got me there

I need to bow out of this thread for the time being but to any who won there classes or got top tens out of those HUGE highly competitive classes with all those beautiful horses please let me say I am highly aware of the hard work and talent and years put into coming out with a ribbon and how many NICE NICE Horses were there that didint come out with a ribbon simply cause there were only 10 to give even if there were 20 deserving in the class.

And that I can say as can many others including some of the top trainers..that yes there was NO ifs ands or buts about it. the horses there were truly the best of the best and there owners should be proud!

 

[kaykay]

lets all take a deep breath and hug one of our horses

Lisa i love both you and susanne and i know susanne did not at all mean her post the way you took it. YOu took her post to mean you personally and thats not at all what she meant. I think what she means (and i know shell correct me if im wrong

is the people who go just because they have the money to do it and say they showed at nationals. There ARE people who do this.

Again passing a rule that you must show your horse locally in the same classes you enter at nationals wont affect any of the people on here who dont think its a good idea. (im not even saying they have to place in that class although to me that would be better) The only people it will affect are the ones who on whim enter extra classes just because they are already there and they have the money to do it. I for one cant afford that. I would never show a horse at nationals that didnt show in that same class locally and place. Just my tight pocketbook and my horse sense.

And again NO ONE is implying that horses that made top ten werent deserving!!! No way am i or anyone else saying that. I have no doubt that the competition was fierce. NONE!!

And if the youth class was really 6 hrs long (i wasnt there) then i think that is horrible for the kids and the horses.

 

[kaykay]

dbl post growls

 

[susanne]

Thank you, kay...

Lisa, I didn't mean that to be harsh in any way, and I certainly was not suggesting that you were buying your way in. I've watched what you and Raven have done, and how your program has gone from really nice to outstanding just in the time that I've known you. You and your family and farm are what it's all about -- especially the hard work that you've all put into showing.

You've done the work, walked the walk, and you deserve the credit for what you've done. If there were stricter standards for making it to Nationals, I have no doubt that you would still be there.

As for those who placed, I have no doubt that the cream rises to the top, and I'm not discounting the winners in any way. I just think that such huge classes and such low requirements for entry mean that the show does not do justice to you and all of those who have worked their fingers to the bone to get there.

I just found it a bit disappointing to learn that one doesn't need to put in that sort of effort to enter Nationals...I was nearly as disappointed to learn the same about the regional shows...also that our state fair has no prerequisites such as at least entering and supporting any county fairs.

 

[Fred]

For me to get to an AMHR show just to qualify takes me 8 hours of driving to get

to just one show. There are NO AMHR shows in New England! It takes me 33

hours of drive time to get to nationals. I work most of my horses myself all year

[maybe one with a trainer] just to go to nationals to have fun! As for the open

judging at R nationals. I watched them deliberately bypass horses and not give

the courtesy of a look ONLY in the open division. The youth and amateur judges

were fair and DID look at the horses! If the judge is not capable of giving ALL

competitors an equal look THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE THE JOB! As for late nights

and early mornings believe me they know how judging at nationals is BEFORE

they take the job! My day started at 5:30 am and ended at 2 am most days and

I had to do this for the whole show! The judges only do so many days, I think

they should be able to handle it! As for judging thats their job and thats what

they are trained and paid to do. Believe me, I sometimes end up doing feet for

16 hours a day and can still do my job properly, they should be able to judge

properly too! Linda B