AMHR Nationals Poll

[kaykay]

Thought I would see what everyone else thinks. I think it should definately be harder to qualify a horse for Nationals but thats just my opinion.

Kay

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

I agree I do think AMHR really needs too look into seeing about doing a point system like AMHA IMO. Especially for like liberty classes.

It's great that Nationals is brining so many people out to Tulsa but it's getting to the point where you must have one FANTASTIC horse to even place in the Top Ten! You all National and Reserve Champions out there CONGRATULATIONS you all well deserved it! Even those who got Top Ten.

If they don't change something for next year it will defintelly change my stratgedy for next year if I decide to enter.

 

[Minimor]

I'm not sure "harder" is the word I'd use, but definitely a little more specific. Maybe same rules as now, must show at 2 shows, under 4 judges--in each division. If you want to drive (pleasure/country pleasure classes) at Nationals, you must qualify in pleasure or country pleasure. Want to show in open halter, you must qualify in open halter. Same for obstacle driving, jumping....

I think it's a bit too simple to show at two shows in a color class, then go to Nationals and enter every single division you feel like entering.

I know there are problems when you're required to get a certain number of placings, or points, or have to beat a certain number of horses in order to qualify.....after all, some of the smaller local shows don't have enough entries for some horses to get qualified in certain classes/divisions. And, if you just need placings, doesn't matter how many horses you beat, if you show at a large show you may not get the necessary placings, whereas someone showing at a small show may place in every class & so qualify, just because there are few or no other entries.

Personally speaking, though, if I go to a couple qualifying shows f& don't place well, I'm not going to bother going to Nationals. Some may consider this snobbish, but I consider Nationals (of whatever breed) to be the cream of showing, and there should be a certain standard of entries overall. Sure, it can still be fun, but national competition becomes just a little more than fun IMO.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]What would you recomend be the qualifying criteria? For many people the shows are far away so just meeting the 4 judges in two locations can be very exhaustive. Would you recomend then you must place in your class under 4 judges at two locations.....or create a point system the same as AMHAs I think that theirs is a bit extreme. Im not really speaking for myself as I have comfidence in my horses that are out to place in the top 3 nearly every time (im not being arrogant )but for the new people just getting started to be able to qualify as we do now gets them there to the big show and they get itchy fingers for even better horses....and they go on to show even more. Thats where I think that the way it is is a good thing..... Almost everyone that wants to try gets a shot. True the classes like liberty and hunter and jumper and even obstacle are very full and very long and maybe a 3 way split of ladies country pleasure is time consuming but it allows those who love to show to do it and not reserve the classes for just the trainers and their clients.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]Minimor is right that there is a certain expected quality at nationals. I have a colt at home that I showed in the beginning of the year to qualify but he wasnt as mature as the others in his class. He was qualified to go but I left him home because he didnt meet my strict requirements to go. IF you think Im snobbish or elitist because I say I dont show horses that Im not confident will win, sometimes they dont but more often they do, then Im really sorry but I am not going to waste my money and time to take a horse that Im not positive will do it. IF thats the best you have and you still want to go and see how you stack up then I believe in your right to try.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Sunny]

I'm not sure "harder" is the word I'd use, but definitely a little more specific. Maybe same rules as now, must show at 2 shows, under 4 judges--in each division. If you want to drive (pleasure/country pleasure classes) at Nationals, you must qualify in pleasure or country pleasure. Want to show in open halter, you must qualify in open halter. Same for obstacle driving, jumping....

I think it's a bit too simple to show at two shows in a color class, then go to Nationals and enter every single division you feel like entering.

I know there are problems when you're required to get a certain number of placings, or points, or have to beat a certain number of horses in order to qualify.....after all, some of the smaller local shows don't have enough entries for some horses to get qualified in certain classes/divisions. And, if you just need placings, doesn't matter how many horses you beat, if you show at a large show you may not get the necessary placings, whereas someone showing at a small show may place in every class & so qualify, just because there are few or no other entries.

Absolutely!! You took the words right out of my mouth!

I think the enormous number of entries at Nationals is reflective, in part, of how easy it is to "qualify". Frankly, IMO, it's hardly "qualifying" when all you have to do is be in the class and not even have to place! One of the very few things I like about the AMHA is that you do have to place and actually qualify in the classes you intend to show in.

I think by making it "harder" to qualify, it will indeed raise the standard of Nationals and really make it the extremely special show that it is. (I can't imagine how the horses could look any better than what's been there lately, though! WOW!!)

 

[kaykay]

i do feel strongly that your horse should at least qualify in every class its going to show in at nationals. Lets face it if you have 80 entries in liberty ITS TOO MANY. There is no way you can tell me that all 80 horses are the very top in liberty. In my mind a national show should be the cream of the crop in every class. Not just "i like liberty so ill enter that too" Liberty is fun and I have no problem with anyone entering it for fun at the local level. But nationals should be different. Same goes for driving classes. NO way are all those entries the top horses. But with AMHR its so easy to qualify that everyone enters their horse wether is a great driving horse or not.

Lyn if these people can make it to tulsa and pay the bigger prices of a national show then surely they afford to show and qualify their horse in the class they want to enter at nationals.

I just dont think its right at all that you can show a horse in halter a couple times and then enter it in everything at nationals.

In my opinion this would only cut out those who enter classes their horse is in no way qualified to show in.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]KAy KAy I do conceed and you have a good point. Maybe placing in your elective classes and then only showing in those classes is a better idea. The more I think about it. It doesnt really affect me as much as others because I only show in PMC and my trainer shows in the open and futurity stuff for me. Since PMC classes dont count for much as in towards HOF in anything , but then again neither dies amateur. Talk about a slow learner.... I showed Hershee only amateur and stake and couldnt figure out what was taking so long on his CP hall of fame till someone told me only the stake classes were counting...duh!!!! anyway. Maybe since the numbers are growing so large like 80 in liberty and 90 in ladies CP having to qualify there would be a good idea. I think there were 72 in hunter as well if I remember correctly. All those classes that have to go one at a time need to be compacted somehow. Just because a horse can jump over a fence without knocking it down doesnt mean he shoould be in that at nationals.... I do see that. same with liberty just for fun....the horse that spends his whole time sniffing the ground and being chased isnt a national liberty quality horse.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

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It's great that Nationals is brining so many people out to Tulsa but it's getting to the point where you must have one FANTASTIC horse to even place in the Top Ten! You all National and Reserve Champions out there CONGRATULATIONS you all well deserved it! Even those who got Top Ten.

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Hmmm maybe I am misunderstanding and really not being rude but isnt that the point of a Nationals class? as it stands now i can honestly say in classes of 75+ horses there were very few that looking at you can say didnt belong there

Shouldnt you have to have one fantastic horse to place in those HUGE classes of fantastic horses as opposed to a top ten out of ten ?

JMO

and also.. well have to remember that not every state has shows for example our state has 1 show..

here we are on one thread complainging about it being a trainers only club and then.. in the next saying hey lets make it harder so more money and such is needed to even get there and get a chance.

Really I dont see the problem - yes the classes are big and yes the days are long but ummm this is a National horse show and they are supposed to be that way- pretty much know that not just in our breed a National show means being tired, and lots of time spent at the barn or the arena heck this is what we worked all year for.

If there are horses there you dont feel should be there as in quality well what difference does it really make?

Does it change your own chances? How many get a chance to go and show and see other horses they might not see in there local area and are able to get focused on what they want to breed and where they want to go?

How many might not have that competition in there area?

Who is to decide the cream of the crop? what if your local area doesnt have the cream of the crop compared to some of these other horses? what if being a point chaser and having money to show makes you then qualify is that fair?

And really what is to stop someone from paying 20 bucks at a local show and still entering in Liberty? how does someones own personal growth get to be measured if they dont win a ribbon but can say hey this time I made the whole course or this time we did obstacle or this time we did the catch or this time i drove in a driving class with 20 other horses in the ring something most cant practice at local shows size wise.

I think really if you want my opionion one reason the R shows are growing by leaps and bounds is that they are the show for everyone and people can go and learn and grow in there own programs if you think that isnt happening well all I can say is the show has grown the classes have doubled and ummm the quality is going UP not DOWN so that would say to me we are on the right track and allowing small farms a place to go and to meet there own goals.

Again the proof this IS WORKING to me is in the GROWING NUMBER OF QUALITY HORSES at this show if it were any ol horse going cause they could.. the number of not top quality horses would be increasing and sorry i dont see it that way.

And one more point what I think doesnt belong in a class might not be what 5 others think doesnt belong in a class.I know those that are sure there horses are top and some dont see it that way and vice versa to me that is the point of showing in nice big classes it is a honor to win and do well why make it easier to get titles or leave it so only trainers and those with big bucks can get it.. isnt that alot of complaints we all had and hear about other registries???

 

[countryrose]

I agree with the points you have made.

Especially the driving classes. I do believe they should be driven, shown and have some placings before being put into nationals. Some are not being put to cart in a show until nationals and that could be very risky for a green horse and the others in the class.

As country pleasure gets so large, possibly break it into 32 and under, 32-34, etc.

Maybe with some of the halter classes also.

 

[Fred]

THIS IS AMHR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOT AMHA. KEEP AMHA AMHA AND LEAVE AMHR ALONE. ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO NATIONALS AND COMPETE THATS WHAT MAKES IT SO SPECIAL! aNYONE WHO GOES THINKS THEY HAVE A SHOT. NO ONE IS GOING TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY OR TAKE THAT MUCH TIME IF THEY DON'T THINK THEY HAVE A CHANCE. AMHA IS TOO DARN ELITIST FOR ME. I SHOW IT UPON OCCASION BUT I AM NOT IMPRESSED WITH THAT ASSOCIATION. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IF YOU SHOW AT AMHA WORLDS YOU BETTER HAVE A HIGHPOWERED TRAINER THAT HAS BEEN BLESSED BY THEM. I PREFER AMHR BECAUSE I HAVE AN EQUAL SHOT IN OPEN AGAINST THOSE SAME TRAINERS BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THE JUDGES WILL LOOK AT THE HORSE AND NOT WHO IS HOLDING THE LEAD. LINDA B

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Ok gotta bring up one more thing.. Raven goes in Liberty it is her favorite class is her horse a National Quality Liberty horse nope but then again I have seen National champions not be in the mood and not really strut there stuff the following year.

She shows in it locally and spends many hours practicing with her horse and picking her music. I might add she was one of the only ones if not the only one to go into the ring herself at Nationals and still have her horse use almost the entire arena and catch him no problem.

Now should I tell her hey others think your 3 min. is a waste of there time and you wont be allowed HE L L no!!!!

She just may very well be the one to beat 3,5,10 years from now yet how can she or anyone else ever learn if we say no?

The competition should be there the classes should be large at least to me anyway when the quality of horses continues to go down instead of up.. then perhaps it can be something i will be concerned about until them I am PROUD to be part of an assocation where a doofus like me can walk away with a top ten out of large classes and where the little guy can stand a chance, where money isnt needed just to get there, not just for the horse,the shows but travel and paying someone to take care of the farm all those other things come into play for me and many others.

 

[Sunraye Miniatures]

Yes of course it takes one fantastic horse anyways. I guess there is just so many awsome horses now these days even the best still don't win. I know one horse who drives and has got Grand Stake or Reserve Stake everytime and even in 10+ horses. Did not even place once. Or my horse who gets Grand or Reserve everytime wasn't even on the card. Oh well I guess I am just biased.

HOWEVER I still think that AMHR should go with a scoring system. BUT I was thinking of the youth shouldn't be an issue at Nationals IMO. The youth is our future they should get every oppotunity to show especially at Nationals.

As for liberty instead $35 maybe charge $40 or $45. That might cut some people down. I know for a fact that I entered one liberty horse, has done awsome in the past but everytime I enter him at Nationals he never performs. Well 2005 at Nationals was his last year lol.

 

[4mymirage]

Hi

We dont show much so probably shouldn't even put in our 2 cents but... If we had to qualify each horse in each division, we would not get to go to nationals - Our Starstruck showed in 19 classes (he had top 10's in 13 of them)...there is no way he could do that many classes at a regular 1-2 day qualifying show... at nationals he had a 10 day period to perform in those classes so had "rest" time each day - no different than a training schedule...and if we are going to have to pay that kind of money to go 1300 miles to a show, we want to show in everything we feel he can excel in....also, some classes such as ammy ladies/ammy gentlemans are not offered at smaller shows and a good solid horse that can win in youth /ammy may not place with that person against pros....

The closest show for us is 5.5 hrs drive in good traffic.... to have to try to make even more shows would be time and cost prohibitive. We would have to have my daughter drop her dreams....

The reason we got into AMHR (last yr) was the open attitude and friendly helpful people. This was especially true for Nationals!

As far as liberty goes, in our limited showing, we have seen a horse win today, then be uncatchable next month.... increasing the price again would just limit the young ones from showing at that level (and she was top 5 this yr) (she has to earn money for her showing and 15yo only get paid so much...)

Anyway, just food for thought and probably part of the reasons that qualifying is so easy..

PS : good job Fred

 

[midnight star stables]

THIS IS AMHR YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT NOT AMHA.  KEEP AMHA AMHA AND LEAVE AMHR ALONE.  ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO TO NATIONALS AND COMPETE THATS WHAT MAKES IT SO SPECIAL!  aNYONE WHO GOES THINKS THEY HAVE A SHOT.  NO ONE IS GOING TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY OR TAKE THAT MUCH TIME IF THEY DON'T THINK THEY HAVE A CHANCE.  AMHA IS TOO DARN ELITIST FOR ME.  I SHOW IT UPON OCCASION BUT I AM NOT IMPRESSED WITH THAT ASSOCIATION.  I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IF YOU SHOW AT AMHA WORLDS YOU BETTER HAVE A HIGHPOWERED TRAINER THAT HAS BEEN BLESSED BY THEM.  I PREFER AMHR BECAUSE I HAVE AN EQUAL SHOT IN OPEN AGAINST THOSE SAME TRAINERS BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME THE JUDGES WILL LOOK AT THE HORSE AND NOT WHO IS HOLDING THE LEAD.  LINDA B

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I don't know that much about showing yet, but

I agree with Linda

...JMOT... I'm not going to Nationals for about 2 or 3 years.. But I sure hope I can qualify!

 

[Jess P]

I also, agree with Linda. Not only is AMHR closer than AMHA to us, but atleast I would have the chance to show my horses in youth next year. Shows cost A LOT of money, so much that I am trying to get a job to help pay back my mom.

 

[runamuk]

Well AMHR is the family/beginner friendly club

but I suppose they could change all that and be more like AMHA and since the numbers seem to be swapping then AMHA could become the family friendly club and they could just keep playing this cute game of ping pong forever

 

[Amy]

Is there HONESTLY -- anyone who just shows in a color class & then goes to Nationals & enters whatever they feel like??

I don't think so-- We showed many horses all summer long both here at home & in the States & we were well over qualified for the Nationals. We showed each & every horse in both their respective halter classes as well as in the Performance classes. ALL of our horses are also shown in all of the YOUTH classes-- both halter & performance-- great training for both the horses & the youth.

Did we take them ALL to NAtionals ??

No, we did not-- however, if something happened to one of them-- we had a back-up to fill the spot.

The amount of time & money we spend showing horses, reflects our love of them & as someone else stated, our confidence in them in the ring as well.

If we are willing to do the work, and spend both the time & money I do NOT see where it is anyone else's business to decide how many classes i can enter.

BUT, we do enter all of our own horses in both halter & performance & they are well qualified for each class they are shown in at the NAtional level -- they get the ring exposure & the practice they need to be shown at that level.

We certainly NEVER take a horse all the way to Tulsa to show in one or two classes for one day only. Every chance you give the judge to see your horse the better chance your horse has.

However, if one is in training obviously they are entered in the classes that the owner wants them shown in.

We have shown both AMHA & AMHR & I like the AMHR way just fine. It really bugs me to hear someone gripe about the amount of entries in a class "THEY" consider foolish or a wast of their time while waiting on their own favorite classes to come along.

I have heard some people complain about "color" classes -- well , if you happen to be a color breeder -- overo, appaloosa or pinto-- that class is very important to them . That is what the NATIONAL show is all about -- our love of the different classes. Every one of us pays the same amount of money for each class so lets be tolerant while others enjoy "the class of their life" as well.

Halter is not the be all to all people nor is performance-- we have a wonderful mix & if we mess with it , we will regret it in a few years.

Off my soap box now !!

 

[horsefeather]

I SO agree with those that say leave AMHR alone. Obviously we're doing something right as a club and continue having success at Nationals with numbers rising every year!

It's kind of like when people complain that our local show has too many classes and might run late. It's a horseshow! If you don't want to 'play' guess you ought to stay home.

We've shown for the past 10+ years and have arrived home at 2am and got up at 6am to go to work. If you want to show bad enough, you'll make the sacrifice. Same thing with AMHR Nationals. It's broken down so that you don't have to stay the whole time. Youth and Ammy are first, if you can't stay for the rest, come for that then go home

I LOVE the easy way AMHR has made it available for EVERYONE to go and enjoy a mind blowing NATIONAL show!! Please don't change anything!!

Pam

 

[kaykay]

I dont think you guys are really reading my post. Everyone that said they dont like the idea also said they DO show their horses in the classes they put them in Nationals. So this wouldnt affect you!! Lisa if your daughter shows liberty in local shows then SHE wouldnt be affected!!

And YES i do know people that never show in the classes all year but then enter them at nationals. It most certainly does happen.

Im getting really tired of this amha vs amhr. This post had nothing to do with that but like previous threads its trying to be turned into that. Enough already!!! I like and am a member of BOTH AMHA AND AMHR. There are great things and not so great things about both registries.

I have not entered a horse in amhr nationals but i am determined to enter one in 2006. I am not lazy and have no problem working my butt off for a horse show that has nothign to do with this.

For the driving classes there is certainly a safety issue. I have heard of beginning drivers driving green horses at the national show. Why would someoen do that? because they can.

I think alot of people here on the forum are really grouchy this week

Lets all lighten up a bit.