Advice please, Prints with an injury

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Frankie

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Came home from work yesterday evening, went to let girls out into the pasture and Prints, ( 3 1/3 month old filly) limped a little down to the gate. I went ahead and let them out, she ran a little but could tell her left leg was botherig her. I checked it but couldn't find anything. I went a head and gave her a little banamine and gastroguard and she went out to the pasture for two hours. Brought them up for supper, she ate good but was still limping. Gave her just a touch more banamine, checked her again and still could not find anyting. Went back out two hours later to check her and she was not feeling any better.

This morning I went out to feed, fed the boys first, the girls always coming running out when they here me, but no Prints. I rushed to feed the boys, ran to the girls side and Prints was just standing there. Even in the dark, I could see how large her left knee had become. It is swollen almost 3 times the normal size. I turned on the barn light, Prints watched me but didn't move, she is always on my heels. Then I could really see just how swollen it is. There are no marks on her leg. I felt around on her knee, it caused her to fall and then she just pushed along the ground. Might as well of stabbed me in the heart, sure felt that way.

I let her get up on her own, wanted to make sure she could if she had to.

Have called the vet but haven't heard back just yet.

I gave Prints about 1/5 tablet of Bute and gastroguard. I know how careful you need to be with Bute, but she is in a lot of pain and it has been the only thing I have ever seen help with swelling.

My vet can be slow at returning calls, especially this early. Any suggestions until that time would be greatly greatly appreciated. Prints has been through so dang much and it has been about 7 weeks with nothing going on, so was hoping we were in the clear. Guess that is what I get for thinking.

Thanks so much in advance.
 

brookhaven

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I would hose her leg with cold water or at least put cold compresses on it to try to reduce the swelling. Hope she's fine...know you've been through a lot!
 

ChrystalPaths

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Oh Carloyn, not Prints! I'd be on the phone every 15 mins. This is Prints and they know her history and have got to know you wouldn't call for any old reason. Harrass, beg plead cry! I'm sending all I have with all I can to help you both. Hug& prayers.
 

justjinx

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oh, carolyn, i am sorry to hear this!

i would try cold water or cold compresses, also, to ease the swelling. the poor baby! hugz!

jennifer
 

Dona

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Oh gosh Carolyn...not poor little Prints again! I would do what the others have suggested, and call the vet repeatedly til they get out there!
 

Jill

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I'd do as the others say and keep on calling the vet and hose the leg. Maybe also walk her some if you can. I think swellen sometimes gets worse if she's cooped up (?). I hope you have a positive update for us before long. These horses can really put their people through the wringer emotionally.
 
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kaykay

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i would sure keep joint ill in mind. it doesnt only affect new foals. does it sound crunchy when you put your hand around the knee?? I have heard that is a big sign of joint ill. sending prayers!
 

Frankie

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Had to come into work and that really bites!!!!

Prints is lying in a thick bed of hay. She just isn't much on moving. Vet said to let her stay there as long as she is getting up and moving some. We do believe it is an injury and rest could help.

The swelling is very tight, don't think it is as you described Kay. If it is joint ill, what other things if any should I watch for? Would like to know more and try and keep ahead of it just in case.

Will be going home for lunch and checking on her, and if she is still down, will get her up and move for a bit. Did not stall her because did not want to encourage her to stay down. No one ever really bothers her, except Opie, so she'll be fine.

Vet recommended, DMSO, what are your thoughts on that for a baby? I have not given it to her.

thanks

carolyn
 

Miniv

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Did the vet see Prints in person???? Poor little tyke. I'll be thinking of her today.

MA
 

runamuk

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I would make sure the vet gets xrays asap...and possibly even draw fluid from the knee.......there are so many things that can go bad with a knee injury......also epithsytis can also cause swelling at the growth plates which can be seen on exrays..........her soudness is in jeopardy and the vet needs to be agressive.......

I have seen some hideous deformities as a result of untreated knee injuries....
 

ClickMini

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Get her to a vet ASAP...x rays, ultrasound, and whatever diagnostics needed. I have had more than my share of these problems as of late, and they were always able to determine what it was via either x rays or ultrasound. This is nothing to mess about with, if your vet won't come, can you find another? I would sure not use a telephone consultation as my determination for treatment.
 

Sandy S.

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I imagine Carolyn just talked to the vet. Right Carolyn? We use the same equine vet and she is almost always at the track with race horses. Takes sometimes 2 hours or more for her to get back with you, and then you have to beg and plead for her to come out. AAARRRGGG. But there are not that many good horse vets left in our area. Going to try a new one I think the next time, he is a little further away though.

I think I would be running cold water on it though as often as I could. That is what one vet always reccommends doing with swelling in the knees. Good luck, hope Prints is doing better at lunch time.
 
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Frankie

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Ok guys, my vet is out of town, the one Sandy spoke of. I did just talk to the person who is covering for my vet. Sorry, this guy is a weaner. Always refuses to see the horse. Tango ran a fever once of 107 and this back up guy would not see him and told me to give him two Bayer, no kidding. Nothing like guessing over the phone. I'm not giving this baby DMSO just because he sees this to be the problem over the phone.

Got a 2nd number for another vet, and that was like pulling teeth. Waiting on that call now.

Like Sandy said, we are very short on Equine Vets in this area.
Found a few in another county, but will not come this far, or will not take patients from another county. Looks like I need to move.

Can some one give me more info on Joint Ill just in case. I have some meds at home and may have something more to help her.

Sandy, have you heard of Hollendonner??????? Another name I was given.

Can I scream now!!!!!
 
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Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis

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If it were me i woudl not give her anymore banimine or bute till someone sees her.
 

Miniv

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Okay, your options for a vet are limitted, right?

Time to get TOUGH, Carolyn. This is your BABY. If care for her isn't done soon, she could be made lame. (Think of her as if your human child was injured and there were no pediatricians close by. What would you do???)

I agree with Lisa regarding the pain meds, be very careful about giving her much more before you know what you are dealing with.

Cold compresses and/or cold water hosing on her leg are a must.

Another option for her until you know what's going on is to give her MSM. This will help with some of the inflamation to the joint.

Now, get on the phone and start making calls to EVERY DARN VET within one or two hours radius! You need your little one to get an X-Ray on that leg to make sure nothing is broken or dislocated. If the blood-flow through her leg is compromised you could be looking at a horrible situation. (I speak from experience!)

If it IS a soft-tissue injury, the vet will recommend or perscribe an even better "joint flex" medication than MSM.

GET MEAN, Carolyn! And good luck and prayers going your way!

MA
 

Frankie

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Ok, this more than just stinks. Trying to use nice words here.

Just got back from my place. I would say she is the same, for sure no better. Hard not to give her something as she is hurting, but agree, I am not a vet, need to see what it is first.

I have now called 9 vets in 4 counties!!!!!!!!!!Half of them wanted to say what it was over the phone, 3 I am waiting to get back with me, 1 not seeing anyone outside their county, 1 does not and will not do minis.

Called just regular vets, small animals, hoping they know of someone, they gave me the same names I already had.



NOW WHAT???????????

Have two more numbers to try, and will wait for the 3. I have told my vet a number of times how much I do not like the back up guy when she is gone. It must fall upon deaf ears. I did call him back (the back up vet), I need to give her a chance, he will not see her. Yes, I explained her back ground, like he gives a flying rat's behind. I can not stand, I mean CAN NOT STAND a vet who doesn't care.

Off to the phones.
 

Sandy S.

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I HAVE HEARD HIS NAME BEFORE, BUT CAN'T REALLY TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT HIM. THE NEXT ONE I HEARD OF IS RON FARRIS IS GREENFIELD, HE HAS A NEW ASSISTANT THAT I HAVE HEARD IS NOT TO BAD, SEEMS TO LIKE MINIS AND WANTS TO LEARN ALL HE CAN ABOUT THEM. SO THAT WAS GOING TO BE MY NEXT TRY AND SEE. PHONE# IS 317-462-1212

I CAN'T THINK OF THE NAME BUT THERE IS ALSO A SKELETAL-MUSCULAR SPECIALIST WAY EAST OF US SOMEWHERE, WILL TRY TO FIND HIS NAME AND NUMBER WHEN I GET HOME FROM WORK.

HOPE PRINTS DOES BETTER. I GIVE BABY ASPRINS SOMETIMES, DON'T KNOW IF YOU WOULD WANT TO TRY THAT OR NOT INSTEAD OF BUTE.
 

Marty

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Carolyn I would keep a cold hose on her until she can be seen by a vet from someplace and not encourage her to be moving about. If you have any ice packs, maybe you can attach one around her knee with vet wrap for a little bit and keep checking it. I would run the hose on her entire leg from the hoof up to the very top of it too. I know in some instances if you are in good with your locals, you can ask the human paramedics for emergency advice.

PS: Did you check for puncture wounds like from a snake bite?
 
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Minimor

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One thing I never do is give bute/banamine to a foal that is a little bit sore on one leg...she would have to be extremely sore, & then to make her comfortable I would give her something...& confine her. With babies so keen on running & playing, giving painkiller to one that is limping only encourages him/her to overuse the leg as the pain is diminished. It can turn a minor problem into a major one.

I would think....and I could be wrong on that, of course, but at this point in time I would assume the foal has not fractured anything in her knee. The most common knee fracture is a chip, removeable by surgery; there's a couple bones that can be fractured that aren't exactly chip fractures, but they (forget what they are called) are almost impossible to pin, & so are best left alone to heal. If it is a chip, you have time to deal with that by way of surgery.

It is most likely carpitis, or popped knee--that will have a huge amount of swelling, and be every bit as sore to touch or to move as is a fracture. Only an x-ray can say for sure of course if there is a fracture--but if nothing shows up on x-ray the vet will likely say it is carpitis. Acute carpitis is caused by trauma--usually a strain caused by overwork/fatigue, or in the case of a foal--a sprain/strain caused by a wrong step that twists the leg. The main treatment is REST. Improper management can result in chronic carpitis, which becomes very difficult to resolve.

Hygroma is the other possibility--usually caused by trauma (a blow or kick to the knee)--it is a fluctuating swelling caused by fluid. It can cause a lot of swelling, but generally isn't as painful as a popped knee. The vet can drain the swelling, then bandage the knee to apply pressure to keep the layers of tissue from separating and refilling. However, if the horse is rested, the swelling often resolves itself with time--been there, done that.....

In any case, until you can get a vet to look at Prints, I would cold hose that leg for 10 minutes at a time several times a day, and I would stable her. Regardless of what the injury is, rest is the best thing. For an acute knee injury, rest is better than movement. Our vet has told us no DMSO for a foal, but that was a very young foal. I cannot say at what age it becomes safe to use DMSO....
 
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