A link, A video, and a Question

[minimama]

Ok, this is a link to a video, yes it is about Obama, but I am posting more as a question. Please go watch it and someone tell me why Obama does not just produce the requested papers? I must have missed something as I just don't understand why not just hand them over and have it done?

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/thi...me_changer.html

 

[LowriseMinis]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington...bama-birth.html

Now come the rumors about Barack Obama's birthplace, that he was really born in his father's native Kenya, so like Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who was born in Austria, he can't become a U.S. president.
Same rule would apply as for McCain. Obama's mother was an American. So is her son.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/ar...ficate-part-ii/

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

 

[minimama]

Yes, I read those but still am curious why he doesn't just produce the original?

 

[LowriseMinis]

I don't know. Personally I don't see why he should have to.

 

[littlesteppers]

I don't know. Personally I don't see why he should have to.

Yeah..who cares..illigal or not..we will vote for him anyways!!

 

[LowriseMinis]

Littlesteppers, are you questioning who Obama's mother is?

 

[Southern_Heart]

Although I have added the link, This article is currently not avaiable. But came from a Newspaper out of Israel

I did however send this to Donna (AppyLover2 ) so she can verify that yes this article was indeed there 2 days ago.

However I have saved the article and have posted below.

Isreal Daily News

Obama Born In Kenya? His Grandmother Says Yes

Filed under Opinion Editorials, Media objectivity, USA foreign policy, US elections, Law and courts - on Monday, October 13, 2008 - By: Yonah, Tamar

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone is lying. According to Obama's Kenyan (paternal) grandmother, as well as his half-brother and half-sister, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya, not in Hawaii as the Democratic candidate for president claims. His grandmother bragged that her grandson is about to be President of the United States and is so proud because she was present DURING HIS BIRTH IN KENYA, in the delivery room. -This, according to several news sites and Pennsylvania attorney Philip J. Berg (see video below) who is, surprisingly, a life long democrat himself. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, and he has an impressive background in his activities as a democrat, but his support for the party seemingly stops when it comes to his trust in Barack Hussein Obama.

Many U.S. voters are suspicious of the Democratic candidate's past, and Berg filed a lawsuit to force Barack Hussein Obama to produce a certified copy of his original birth certificate to prove that he can run for the office of President of the United States. However, he is being fought. The DNC On Sept. 24 filed a motion to dismiss the Berg action. Why? What is there to hide? Why not produce the original birth certificate and be done with all the suspicions against Barack Hussein Obama?

A few months back, a birth certificate WAS posted on the internet which shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. Yet some say this birth certificate is a forgery and again, his grandmother states that she was present at the birth, in Kenya. So what is the truth?

One explanation is that Obama's mother Ann Dunham, flew to Kenya in 1961 with Obama's father to meet his family. According to some news reports, Ann Dunham, was not accepted well by her husband's family because she was white:

"Obama's family did not take to Stanley Ann Dunham Obama very well, because she was white, according to Sarah Obama. Shortly after she arrived in Kenya Stanley Ann decided to return to Hawaii because she later said, she did not like how Muslim men treated their wives in Kenya. However, because she was near term the airline would not let her fly until after the birth of her baby. Obama's grandmother said the baby—Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.—was born in Kenya and that shortly after he was born, Stanley Ann returned to Hawaii."

However, by the time she wanted to leave Kenya, it was during the late stages of her pregnancy. She was not able to board a plane because the airlines wouldn't allow women so close to birth to fly. It is instead believed, that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Kenya as his grandmother apparently stated. Then, after he was born, his mother returned with him to Hawaii where his birth was REGISTERED on or about August 8th, 1961, in the public records office in Hawaii.

There is also a discrepancy in what hospital Barack Hussein Obama was born in, even if he was born in Hawaii. Reports by his own sister in two separate interviews state that he was born at two different hospitals-- Kapiolani Hospital and Queens Hospital--in Honolulu.

The Times Herald even reports: "the senator's grandmother, brother and sister, who live in Kenya, believe they were present during Obama's birth in the African country." Here, the Times Herald uses the word that his family 'believe' he was born in Kenya (perhaps to avoid possible law suits by Obama's Truth Squad?).

 

[Southern_Heart]

Then there also is....

So we'll see what comes of this.

Man demands state verify birth records or remove senator from ballots

 

[littlesteppers]

http://current.com/items/89143157_obama_s_...ate_proven_fake

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2008/10/...ien-indonesian/

 

[Danielle_E.]

Seems like this will answer your question if you care to look, there is a scanned picture of his original birthcertificate which should satisfy the skeptics.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

 

[minimama]

Danielle, that was the same one, it is a scanned copy. People questioning this document are having problems with that fact, it is a copy, not the original. Says so right in the page you posted the link to.

 

[Danielle_E.]

No disrespect but you need to go to the link and read all of it and then click on the pictures. I posted the picture of the ORIGINAL birthcertificate which you will find in the link (after the one of the seal), just click on it to enlarge it. I put it in my post above so you can see it here. That picture is of an original, not a copy. A copy wouldn't have the raised seal on it.

 

[Southern_Heart]

Danielle, that was the same one, it is a scanned copy. People questioning this document are having problems with that fact, it is a copy, not the original. Says so right in the page you posted the link to.

minimama

Thats right its a scanned copy....

Danielle_E. Your not showing the bottom of the doc. so therefore you can't see where it says copy. Plus it has no singature on it where it supose to be... on the bottom left and stamp on the bottom right. If it was real then Attorney Berg wouldn't have a court case againt Obama right now.

 

[Danielle_E.]

I guess I am reading this wrong.... at the end of what I am posting they put pictures of the original they saw at the Obama house. The below, which is on that site talks about the copy that was first on the internet and then it keeps going and says they saw the original and then post pictures of the original which follow the quote I am posting here (these words are in the link - read the ones that I have highlighted in red) at least that is what I understand. Have a missed something?

This is from the site I linked to

SummaryIn June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Analysis

Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.

It isn't signed.

No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.

The certificate number is blacked out.

The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.

The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.
The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

Blowup of certificate number

Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

Obama's birth announcement

The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

 

[littlesteppers]

Okay..so its all dandy..why does he not just pull it out of his desk and give it all a rest???

 

[Danielle_E.]

Okay..so its all dandy..why does he not just pull it out of his desk and give it all a rest???

Okay, I just re-read the link. Sorry, I am tired tonight. Are you saying you want a copy or the original that the hospital would have provided? and not an original from the state of Hawaii? That is the only other original I can figure you are looking for? Sorry about confusion. I don't have my original birth certificate from the hospital where I was born but I have an original from the province of Ontario which is good enough to say I was born in Ottawa, Ontario/Canada. Can I ask why you don't think the state one is acceptable. Do you think the state of hawaii would provide an altered one?

 

[Southern_Heart]

Danielle_E.

Look at that picture that you have posted and at the bottom of your last post read...

The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Your copy that you have is a certification of birth.......not a "certificate of birth

Look at the top of it and you can clearly see certification of birth...meaning not the real deal.

Also if this all comes down to that he is not legal, then this is going to be a mess as nothing would be legal about this whole President thing. Heck the whole campaign wasn't on the up and up! They would have to sart over I would think with new runners.

I will be so glad when Berg has new reports on the matter.

 

[Danielle_E.]

Danielle_E.Look at that picture that you have posted and at the bottom of your last post read...

The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

Your copy that you have is a certification of birth.......not a "certificate of birth

Look at the top of it and you can clearly see certification of birth...meaning not the real deal.

Also if this all comes down to that he is not legal, then this is going to be a mess as nothing would be legal about this whole President thing. Heck the whole campaign wasn't on the up and up! They would have to sart over I would think with new runners.

I will be so glad when Berg has new reports on the matter.

Thanks for the explanation and sorry for the confusion. I was under the impression that this certificate from the state of Hawaii was sufficient to prove that he was born in Hawaii and therefore was American by birth.

 

[Charley]

The claim is that it is fraudulent...made up. There are at least three different ones on one site. They are all scanned copies and how can you tell if they are real? The court needs to be provided the one that he choses as his real one to see if it is a real American birth certificate. You can't tell by what you read on the internet. The question is why won't he produce one for the court which has requested it. Also tied into this is why won't he release any school records....which would have his nationality listed. It is claimed that as a child he attended school in Indonesia. Indonesia was at war and only citizens of Indonesia were allowed to attend school. Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. So his step father and mother may have denounced his American citizenship at that time. Some claim to have record of that, but who knows. It is for the court to decide and they could if he would provide the information.

They say these are some things that are wrong with that copy:

Barack's campaign is offering up a "CERTIFICATION". That's different. It should be Certificate

1. No attending physician signature or license number

2. No address for the attending physician or hospital

3. No parent signature

4. No parent DOB or age of parent or parent place of birth.

5. Father's race would not be "African", that is country of origin. Race would be black or Negro (1960's)

6. Was this a single birth or multiple birth.

7. No Registrars name or signature.

 

[tagalong]

I will be so glad when Berg has new reports on the matter.

Southern Heart... Berg has nothing. He is a famewhore of the highest order. He has filed constant suits against the government. He believes that 9/11 was an inside government job. I'll just paste in some of my comments from an earlier thread about all this.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

Berg's accusations are full of errors... as the snopes page explains.

And such suits have been filed against other presidents as well.

Berg seems to be more about self-promotion than finding any so-called truth... *snort*. He talks in pretty spinning circles - but all of his "facts" have been disproved. No matter - it is still self-promotion.

And that is what Berg wants.

He is looking for his 15 minutes of fame any way he can get it... speaking of conspiracies, check out one of his websites...

http://www.911forthetruth.com/

Yes - he thinks 9/11 was a inside job and demands that Bush tell us the truth. He has filed suits against the government repeatedly....

IMO Berg is not about The Truth - just His Truth... however convoluted it may be...

And people keep giving this blowhard the attention he will do anything to get - fame is just another lawsuit away for him.

His 15 minutes of quasi-fame is hopefully at 14:58.

*********

Barack's campaign is offering up a "CERTIFICATION". That's different. It should be Certificate

???

A certificate would be certification of something. It is the same thing. Different states/provinces may have different terminology.

Ohio issues a Certification of Birth.

Does that mean everyone born in Ohio is not an American citizen?

I was under the impression that this certificate from the state of Hawaii was sufficient to prove that he was born in Hawaii and therefore was American by birth.

Danielle, it is legal. The print at the bottom says ... This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.

Prima facie = obvious, self explanatory

The registration number would match the file in the state of Hawaii's records.

You know - my Alberta birth certificate says COPY on it too - why? Because if it is not the first one, it will be so designated. It does NOT mean it is false. It does NOT mean it is fraudulent. I ordered it back in the 80s when the old one seemed to have vaporized.

It is labelled a CERTFICATE OF BIRTH. It could just as easily say Certification. Let's check the parameters listed above that "prove" Obama's document is false...

1. No attending physician signature or license number

No such info on mine.

2. No address for the attending physician or hospital

Again - no.

3. No parent signature

No.

4. No parent DOB or age of parent or parent place of birth.

Also not on mine.

5. Father's race would not be "African", that is country of origin. Race would be black or Negro (1960's)

No race shown on mine at all. - but HELLO? Africa is not a country. That may just be what was written on the original registration.

6. Was this a single birth or multiple birth.

No such thing on mine.

7. No Registrars name or signature.

I have a "director's" signature - that is all.

OMG - that must mean mine is a photoshopped fake!!

It isn't.

The one I have is legal and acceptable ID - and what they require from you in order to issue a passport, to provide proof of citzenship etc.

And mine has far less info on it than Obama's Certification of Birth does. Mine does not even have my parents' names on it. Or my time of birth. Or the race or nationality of my parents.

The information some seem to be requesting - would be on file. My Certificate of Birth is a certified extract from the Registration of Birth. Is that what some want - the actual registration?? That is not a birth certificate...

I think I figured it out. Some want to see the Registration of Birth thinking that is a Birth Certificate - they are two different things. A birth certificate/certification of birth will be the extract from the registration - with all the information that is required by law. If there was no Registration of Birth - there can be no Certification of Birth/Birth Certificate. One begats the other. The numbers will match up. I suspect that many states and provinces do not release the long forms/registrations as they would a birth certificate.

And again I must point out the obvious - even though we have all sorts of links in this thread stating the facts... if this was in any way true - do you really think that the McCain campaign would not have focussed on it? Of course they would have. They know it is much ado about nothing.

I like this section from the Politifacts page...

There is not one shred of evidence to disprove PolitiFact's conclusion that the candidate's name is Barack Hussein Obama, or to support allegations that the birth certificate he released isn't authentic.
And that's true no matter how many people cling to some hint of doubt and use the Internet to fuel their innate sense of distrust.