A Disturbing Trend

[Jill]

Please disregard the above request for more information. I'll just "content" myself with pondering if this thread was really initiated to point a finger at another forum member or not

 

[Marty]

My apologies to KK for hijacking the thread and I removed the TWH video. Many others like it can be found on youtube. Plenty of my friends have TWH and do not ginger or sore or anything like that whatsoever and show honesly in flat shod without any of this painful junk.

Back to the subject at hand for the gingering, I really think REO said it best:

I think that people who put pepper or ginger in the butts of horses for Any reason should have it put up their butts to see how they like it!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

There are terrible things done to every species of animal that shows. I don't believe that makes it right or justifies it or means anyone, including myself, should turn a blind eye.

But specifically regarding miniatures, I personally have not seen gingering (that I knew of) of horses IN THE RING. I've seen it on horses run through an auction. I've not actually seen a person doing it, but have seen the horses run across the stage/arena and KNEW they had been. I've seen it at World Show sale that used to happen annually during the World Show...so again...not on a horse in the ring, but a horse being auctioned. If you have attended certain farm auctions and or watched them online you've seen it too. You just didn't recognize it. But if 90% of the horses in an auction, male or female, come out with their tails held away from their butt several inches, they've been gingered!

The only thing I have seen actually in the ring, and I believe I talked about this on this forum at the time, was a gorgeous mare that was waiting outside the ring at AMHR Nationals one year. I was watching her wait as she was just stunning and the person next to me leaned over and said something like "what do you think of those ears?" And I said I know, I can't believe how she keeps them so alert and tight even when she's relaxed. And they said something like "look closer. They will NEVER move. They are wired." I was

to say the least! I'd never heard of the practice so I started asking around and learned it is done sometimes - both to halter and to driving horses and I'm specifically talking about miniatures. And sure enough, I watched that mare show in ammy and open...40+ minute classes each and nope, her ears never moved. They would start to relax ever so slightly and they'd jerk back forward as if on a spring almost. So sad, especially since this mare was so gorgeous to begin with. The owner/handler didn't need to alter her. And of course it's also a form a cheating, so it was just a doubly sad situation.

A note to folks that alter their horses either for show or for marketing purposes... Eventually your plan fails because your horse may "look" a certain way, but since it's not natural there's no way their offspring will carry that trait. In the long run you've done nothing to "get ahead." Doesn't matter what breed or species for that matter.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Wings]

I have never seen gingering in the Miniature Horse. Guess I'm blind or lucky, but I don't think this is something that needs to be sent as a "the sky is falling" message. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable, even painful, but temporary. How bout we do something about docking tails on draft horses and cropping ears on dogs? That is painful AND permanent.

Personally I don't care how temporary it is, it doesn't make it a lesser issue. Every breed, every discipline has it's issues and the best time to stamp on them is at the start, when it's not that common. Make it clear that it will not be acceptable.

I've never seen it in the ring, but I have seen photos that have made me wonder.

Back to the subject at hand for the gingering, I really think REO said it best:

I think that people who put pepper or ginger in the butts of horses for Any reason should have it put up their butts to see how they like it!

It's an excellent suggestion, I think I shall send it in as a rule change to the group I'm with

 

[susanne]

I'll just "content" myself with pondering if this thread was really initiated to point a finger at another forum member or not

If there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not permanent -- just a momentary discomfort -- then whoever was being referred to has nothing to fear.

If their horses are not gingered and they can honestly state that their horses have naturally beautiful tail carriage, then more power to them.

They only need be upset if they are guilty, and if that is the case I have no sympathy whatsoever.

Obviously I consider gingering to be a horrendous violation of the trust horses place in humans. Those who feel this is a minor thing might wish to try it first and then see if they still feel the same way...I myself am satisfied in my belief that irritating substances stuck into sensitive tissue would be intolerable.

(I cannot view videos, so I have no idea what post or what farm is being referenced.)

 

[barnbum]

maybe its more prevalent in higher up shows but I don't know anyone locally who really even cares about how they hold their tail. I guess I didn't know that how they carry their tail was important enough that some one would ginger a mini to get it.I really couldn't care less about how they carry their tails but instead how well built they are and how well they behave. just seems like super pointless reason to hurt your poor horse for, but i think that's true of any show abuse. Poor little baby's.

Obviously I consider gingering to be a horrendous violation of the trust horses place in humans. Those who feel this is a minor thing might wish to try it first and then see if they still feel the same way...I myself am satisfied in my belief that irritating substances stuck into sensitive tissue would be intolerable.

Exactly.

What an informative, eye-opening, very sad post. I appreciate that Kay brought it to our attention. If it stops one more horse from being subjected, it was a job well done.

 

[Minimor]

Not sure why some are opposed to having this topic come up on the forum. Just because there are worse offences doesn't mean we should just ignore the practice of gingering.

I would point out that just because you don't see someone gingering their Minis at a show doesn't mean they aren't doing it. Since gingering is forbidden in the rule book, chances are anyone doing it is not going to do it openly. It only takes a moment to pop the ginger in, so someone can do it very quickly & discreetly.

Not sure why some are opposed to having this topic come up on the forum. Just because there are worse offences doesn't mean we should just ignore the practice of gingering.

I would point out that just because you don't see someone gingering their Minis at a show doesn't mean they aren't doing it. Since gingering is forbidden in the rule book, chances are anyone doing it is not going to do it openly. It only takes a moment to pop the ginger in, so someone can do it very quickly & discreetly.

 

[Sandy B]

There are people in every breed and every discipline that cross the line to win a title or I should say attempt to win a title. I have shown a multitude of breeds over 35 years but mainly quarter horses and morgan's. Through the years quarter horses have gone through all sorts of things (abuse)and AQHA constantly tries to police their shows and make changes. Still, the once versatile quarter horse is now so event specialized you have to have a different one for almost every class. The Morgan's that compete in the English Pleasure, Park or Halter are all shod with heavy shoes and all gingered before they show. I have witnessed several Arabian halter trainers, tying their horses up and whipping them with a whip to get them blowing and snorting and afraid of the whip just so that they look on fire when they do show them. I have only been to a few AMHA local shows and did not see one gingered horse, BUT.... The year we bought my daughter her first minis, we went back to the AMHA World show to watch and walking around, I saw a couple minis gingered in preparation for showing and saw several handlers/trainers over "terrorizing" their horses to get them amped up to show. I was really taken aback as it was like I was at a Morgan show but in mini horse version. However these were just a few out of the hundreds that seemed to care for their minis and show them legit.

 

[denny10012]

Please disregard the above request for more information. I'll just "content" myself with pondering if this thread was really initiated to point a finger at another forum member or not

No ones pointing fingers, what has been heard on the farms video was just shocking to hear...I really like their horses but cant understand why they would do this..maybe thay dont know any better...

 

[susanne]

.

Sadly, you can bet those who do this will turn around and tell you how much they love horses.

And for those who turn the other way while your trainer does this...you're just as guilty. Even if you're afraid to tell the "professional" how to do their job, grow a pair and stand up for your horse!

And this thread will most definitely have at lest one effect: I'll bet none of us looks at a plumed tail the same way ever again.

.

 

[raine]

I do agree this is so wrong, just not needed. If you to the link below i have a 3 month old colt that does hold up his tail, 100% NATURALLY..I would never have it any other way...My point is some minis do hold up their tails and some dont.....

It should'nt be forced

 

[Genie]

Sadly, those who do these things just obviously do not care, and will continue the practices.

I guess this topic just helps those of us who were ignorant to the situation will start to take a "new look" at horses who are "strutting their stuff" in a manner that looks more "painful" rather than "normal". It will tell me something about the owner.

 

[barnbum]

Sadly, those who do these things just obviously do not care, and will continue the practices.

I guess this topic just helps those of us who were ignorant to the situation will start to take a "new look" at horses who are "strutting their stuff" in a manner that looks more "painful" rather than "normal". It will tell me something about the owner.

I totally agree.

 

[kaykay]

This post was not to out a specific forum member. It would be really naive to think that only one member on this forum does this.

I have to go by what I personally see out at the shows. To reiterate; I have seen an increase every year in gingered minis showing. It is talked about at the shows etc but I had not seen it brought up here. I wish the person who started a protest at a show a few months ago had followed through. I do not know why they didnt.

It used to be rare, now not so much. Like I said before all it takes to stop a trend is for people to refuse to follow the "trend"

I feel especially bad for fillies and mares that have this done as there is no doubt it gets into even more sensitive places.

I brought up the whole practice of gingering at the judges/stewards clinic 2 years ago. I asked why the rule is not enforced and why so many are allowed to do it. Because I have always been against it and had strong feelings about it.

 

[kaykay]

Double post

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

.....The year we bought my daughter her first minis, we went back to the AMHA World show to watch and walking around, I saw a couple minis gingered in preparation for showing and saw several handlers/trainers over "terrorizing" their horses to get them amped up to show.....

The day I have to hurt my horse to make him show is the day I quit showing.

I feel especially bad for fillies and mares that have this done as there is no doubt it gets into even more sensitive places.

I saw an ad in the World several years ago with matronly broodmares advertised. Every single picture showed those mares holding their tails UP and OUT- and they were STANDING. These were BROODIES. I looked at the pic and went WTH????

 

[Leeana]

Well, I have been to more then a few shows the past several years and have been at most of the shows in our area this year, some watching and some with horses... as well as watched most of the shows that were broadcasted online from other area's. I watch EVERY class that means something to me (all the amhr, aspc modern and class and aspr halter classes. I don't watch the obstacle, showmanship ext as that does not mean anything to me).

I don't think i've seen so much as ONE pony that I thought was gingered? I've also been to two of the shetland congress, watched EVERY halter class and did not see any that I thought was gingered? Also attended the 2008 AMHR Nationals (and watched the 2009 and 2010 Natls online - AND 'most' of the AMHA World Show online as well, also, I watched every halter and most of the driving classes at this years Congress) and watched EVERY halter class and did not see any that I thought was gingered? Perhaps there is a handful of people out there somewhere doing it....but I don't think its like cancer spreading.........

MOST of the people that attend shows are family or small farm/owners and I just cannot see people like that gingering their ponies that are just in it for the fun and a ribbon. But like I said above, I guess i'm just NOT seeing it?

If only we could put half as much effort into taking care of the things that are managable and actually matter.

 

[Jill]

If there's nothing wrong with it, and it's not permanent -- just a momentary discomfort -- then whoever was being referred to has nothing to fear.

To be clear, I never said there's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't do it to one of my hoofed wonders. However, this veiled / staged finger pointing thread and orchestrated drama is just too familiar. Of course, just expressing my opinion. I'm ever so familiar with it.

 

[ohmt]

I have not seen it at shows either Leeana (though I have only attended a few this year), but I have seen it done to horses in auctions, for pictures and for videos, increasingly. It's so easy to spot-especially when ALL of the horses have their tails up so high.

I believe anything that someone strongly opposes (or feels strongly about period) is worth the time and definitely matters. I think this thread was started to let people know what's happening, not start a riot. There's nothing wrong with that.

I agree with Reo!

 

[kaykay]

To be clear, I never said there's nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't do it to one of my hoofed wonders. However, this veiled / staged finger pointing thread and orchestrated drama is just too familiar. Of course, just expressing my opinion. I'm ever so familiar with it.

If this was true I surely would not have brought it up to the head of stewards at the clinic two years ago.

Jill its no forum secret that you are not a fan of my posts or threads. I will give you your own advice that you are so fond of. "Its real easy to not open a thread" Obviously I am the OP (and listed as such), so maybe you could just skip my threads and then we can all skip the drama. Just as you have a right to express your opinion; so do I and other people.

There are quite a few people not happy that I brought this up. And thats okay. To each their own. Over the years it has always been that thing "you dont talk about"

As said above I am not wanting to start a riot. I never said it was anything like "rampant" I simply said it is increasing and for people to refuse to do it.