Zoning

[MindyLee]

I have been suggesting to a lot of customers lately and will be saying it a lot more now that chick days are starting where I work at TSC.

Most new farm owners no matter what kind of livestock they want to own dont know much if any info on zoning in their township. I ask folks all the time and warn them about fines if caught but most just will add animals to their property anyway with out seeing if they are zoned for them.

I was wondering if any of you either looked into the zoning in your area or just noticed that other farms in the neighborhood have farm animals so you just added them to your farm? Did you or someone you know get caught and what happened? And what do you think about some zonings in your area? Do you think its a good ideal or a dumb law?

Thanks!

 

[Little Hooves]

Zoning laws are there to protect the value of properties around property - well, if that makes sense. It's to prevent smells and unsightly things for residential dwellings and to prevent a sewer plant from popping up next to a shopping mall.

The way I see it, most land starts out "zoned for animals," but as a city develops, the zonings change to smaller plots that are not big enough according to the county. Then you can always get special permits to make exceptions if the city is ok with it.

My personal feelings are that it's a good thing, but I think unrealistic at times. Why do I need a WHOLE acre to own a horse (for one example)? Or why are all livestock treated equally when they come in all different shapes and sizes and create different strengths of stench! In reality, an acre seems a little big for one livestock animal... especially if you choose a goat or miniature horse. In my county, you need a half acre per livestock animal...doesn't matter which one (with exception of birds). It makes me think I should switch to BIG horses to get the biggest bang out of my zoning.

Then there are the areas that just don't care. Talk to your neighbors, and if they're OK with it, you can own a couple more than the zoning permits - so long as it's not seen by the public eye too much and that no one complains, a lot of people skirt on by the law.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of how zoning laws affect me, though. I'd like to have one mini per quarter acre if I could have my way.

 

[stormy]

After visiting the Netherlands the zoning laws enforced here made even less sense to me then before. There even very small plots in residential areas often have a few goats, a pony or a horse living there in a well maintained area. Businesses have open areas fenced and cattle grazing next to them but again well maintained properties, no manure about, mowed grazing areas and attractive fence.

Where I am I can have 1 horse on the first 2 acres then 1 horse per additional acre. My property is surrounded by my folks farm where, because it is over 20 acres, I can have unlimited numbers of animals...now how does that make sense??

I do recommend checking first...I have seen these things get ugly in our township.

 

[Sandee]

When buying our house out here we definitely checked the zoning. We almost bought one place before we learned that they insisted all animals be behind the house and that the barn (which need to be built) would have to match the house in design. WOW, talk about crazy big $$ and crazy zoning!

Here we are on agriculture with only 5 acres because it was the original farm land. This is even though we are nearly surrounded by a subdivision. It was ideal for us as hubby, being a city boy, was reluctant to live "way out by ourselves".

 

[JWC sr.]

Here in Texas we have very few zoning laws that effect urban or country people, besides actual deed restrictions which are normallly set up when large tracts are subdivided. Deed restrictions in Texas are hardly ever broken in a court of law, so it pays to know exactly what you are buying.

One of the problems we always hear about even with cities and townships, are when the City annexes an area and then attempt to regulate the folks that have lived there with their animals for years. When that happens most people take advantage of what is called the grandfather clause in our state, thereby exempting them for the regulations. Unless it becomes a public nusiance.

I understand that most states have this little known law on the books also. It might be something for folks to look into.

The other question we always get is how many mini's equals a full size horse. There is a current law suit going thru the system to establish that from a legal standpoint, so we will see how that goes.

Bottom line for us any way is that folks need to understand that there is indeed deed restrictions in many places and they must be adherred to in the State of Texas. It goes against the grain for me though for an individual to purchase a piece of property and then be told by the government what the can do with it. Unless it is a public nusiance, but that is just me. LOL

 

[wingnut]

We already knew we lived in an area zoned agriculture. The only thing we had to concern ourselves with was the addition of out buildings. As far as we understand the regulations, as long as the building is "portable" then no permits are required.

I understand the need for regulations and what their intended purpose is...but sometimes, they get nuts with how they go about it.

 

[targetsmom]

I am sure it makes a big difference where you live. In densely populated Connecticut, you had better know the zoning regulations and abide by them or risk losing your animals. Fines are one thing, but there is also the chance they will force removal of animals over the "legal limit".

When we got our first horse in 1960, it was before zoning came to our small CT town, so our horse was "grandfathered". When zoning did come in a few years later it was a good thing we already had the horse. And how did the town know about her? Because we had declared her as personal property and had been paying taxes (very minimal) on her.

In 1971 when I moved to another small town, I looked at a house in an area with a brand new zoning designation. Since no one was sure if horses would be allowed or not, I would not purchase the property until I had a letter signed by a zoning official saying that I could have horses on the 2.3 acres of land.

Fast forward to 2001 and our current property of 7.5 acres. We knew that horses would be allowed by zoning, but we went a further step and had our property designated as a "farm" which lowers our property taxes and also allows us to do things we would not other wise be allowed to do.

 

[Millstone Farm]

Long Island (NY) is even more densely populated than Targetsmom's area of CT. Before I will sell a horse to anyone, i insist they check their zoning laws. Think your state is nuts -- try living in NY!!! I have even gone so far as to check myself when i don't think a prospective client has actually done their research.

I would never sell a horse to someone who "hopes" to pull a fast one by getting around zoning rules. Too much potential for heartbreak and /or mistreatment.

 

[Katiean]

I know a lady that had goats. The lady across the street from her had goats too. The lady I know bought a goat that the neighbor wanted. When she wouldn't let the lady across the street have the wanted goat she turned the lady I knew in to zoning. A really brave thing to do since goats are not allowed and she had plenty of her own. My friend had to board out her goats and the neighbor got to keep hers. The reason; No one had complained about the goats across the street. Just hers. For them to enforce the law where they were, someone had to complain. Laws are enforced different everywhere.

 

[Bess Kelly]

Being a real estate agent, I always check zoning!! The numbers per acre in our area do not change between mini & full size horse. BUT......where I purchased, although they carefully outlined the numbers per acre, min acreage needed, etc., once you got over 10 acres, you could have as many as you wanted!

Boy, that makes a lot of sense -- right??

Another thing to check is that "livestock" being allowed often does NOT include horses. Yep, "livestock" if most often animals that are raised for food use and does not include what they consider "recreational". There are several questions to ask and receive clear answers. With chickens, I have seen some cities that would allow hens but not roosters

The zoning most often is inclusive of all land, even if not used for the purpose -- i.e. 4 acres and 2 is a lake or swamp, something obviously not suitable for said use.

Things change from area to area......gotta check.

 

[cretahillsgal]

Well, I live in the middle of nowhere. And the land where I put my house/farm was previously a cattle pasture. So I wasn't worried about it.

 

[susanne]

I love Portland, Oregon (even though we now live out in the sticks)!

Although it's a good-sized city (metropolitan area population is 3.8 million), and though some may disagree with its politics, it is very welcoming of animals and urban farming.

Has this hurt property values? Hardly -- the downside of Portland is the astronomical housing prices, even in a bad economy.

Livestock of any sort is allowed by permit providing you keep it a minimum of 50 feet from any house (including yours), even in the heart of the city. You have to notify neighbors within a few blocks, but it's up to them to make the effort if they object.

I went through the permit process before adopting Mingus, and then learned that the City of Portland does not consider minis to be livestock. "They're pets," I was told.

Any city dweller may keep up to three chickens (no roosters); nobody really cares if you have more than three, though. Goats and pot-bellied pigs, like minis, are also welcome.

There are a number of good-sized urban farms and CSAs within the city limits. Portland also has the most trees of any major city -- in the world, if memory serves me.

When we lived there, we checked to see if we could take Mingus into the huge city park three blocks from our house. The response was "just take a bag big enough to clean up after them." Our walks in the park were very popular amongst our neighbors.

The funny thing is, the tiny semi-rural bedroom community where I grew up and where my mother still lives -- Happy Valley, right next door to Portland -- originally incorporated to keep from being swallowed up by Portland and to preserve residents' rights to keep horses. Guess what the City of Happy Valley now forbids? HORSES!

 

[Riverdance]

I too am a Real Estate Agent, and I specialize in Hobby Farms and acreage properties.

The zoning rules are different from county to county, town to town. Some, you have to have 10 acres to have animals, others, all you need is 2.5.

There are some places that are grandfathered in, others that are not.

I have spoken to too many people who have bought places thinking they can have horses, only to find out that they can not.

Everyone should check out the zoning laws in their area. One would hate to have horses and get a neighbor that will turn them in.

 

[Enchantress]

When we were looking to buy a new place last year we knew we needed to ask about zoning just to be safe. I was paranoid about it...what if we spend all this money and find out I can't put the horses there! We did find one house that we liked enough and the land would work, and when I asked they said "horses were ok". Well, come to find out, "livestock is not permitted with the exception being horses." Great, but I had to have written permission from ALL neighbours saying it was ok, and any buildings had to be built a certain way, could only have certain siding, certain materials....seriously? There was a big old manual on what you could and couldn't do and I just didn't want to deal with all THAT. By the way, this was in a country area with lots of old farmhouses and cows and horses at several properties in the area. Do I think it would have been an issue to have the animals there? Probably not. But there's also nothing saying that someone could move in and decide they didn't want horses next door and that possibility was definitely NOT worth it! So it's definitely important to check out zoning!

 

[Katiean]

We lived on the east side of the valley we still live in. We had 1/3 ac. At one point we had 6 Ostriches and 8 Emus on that 1/3ac. We cut down to 3 emus and 4 Ostriches. Animal control would park on the other side of the fence at lunch time to watch the birds that in the mid day sun sit in a circle. They were raised with a chick (hen) so they could learn to eat and the dumb chicken thought she was an ostrich and would sit in their mid day circle. The neighbors were all mad when we got rid of the last of the big birds. The thing is even though they are raised for food, they do not fall into the catagory of Livestock. They are exotics. Everyone loved the roar sound they made at night. It was way cool on a hot summer evening. We just didn't have the proper fence to keep everyone safe.

 

[CharlesFamily]

I live on a "grandfathered in" property that was originally outside of the city limits, but has gradually been taken in. We bought the property from my aunt who had owned it for 25 years prior to that. We only have 1.75 acres, but a 6-stall horse barn and two fenced pastures. (But we don't fill up the barn - currently I only have one biggie and two minis on the property). I've never checked into the zoning myself, but my aunt always told us that as long as there was always a horse on the property it could not revert.

However, if there is ever a time when a horse is gone from the property 366 days (or 1 year + 1 day) then the property will convert to current zoning which would be residential and would not allow horses. So, as long as the horses stay on our property, we are okay.

I like our area. I wish we had more acreage, but it is nice living on our little dead end street with all the amenities of being in town, but getting to have the horses with us. And it's funny the looks we get when we decide to take Toy on a walk around the neighborhood!

Barbara