Young BOYS

[gatorbait4sure]

I have a 10 month old colt who is turned out with the only other baby I had last year, a filly. He has been climbing on things since he was teenie weenie ( he was in a candid in the AMHA World sleeping on a big blue ball, last Summer ). He continues to climb on anything and everything, including other horses who tolerate it. NEVER with any sign of an erection. WHEN do I need to remove him from his Play Pal, or other unbred mares? He is very sweet and kind, is handled daily, and is respectful of his humans ( DOES NOT climb on us!)

dru

 

[Becky]

WHEN do I need to remove him from his Play Pal, or other unbred mares?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but NOW! He is physically mature enough to breed mares now if he is so inclined. I don't let weanling colts stay with open mares of any age past December of their birth year. Sometimes they are removed earlier. Better be safe than sorry!

 

[gatorbait4sure]

Oh SHOOT! POOR Triple, he's going to be Gabe's climbing post.......

 

[targetsmom]

Dru- I am in the same situation and I like to think we have just a BIT more time here in the frozen north! But not much... I keep and eye on mine - as it sounds like you do - and will remove him the INSTANT I see an erection. I was able to leave Buckshot with the herd until March when he was this age.

 

[Songcatcher]

Once you see it, it may well be too late. I'm with Becky. I would have already separated him, probably three months ago.

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I separate my boys and girls when I wean, they go into seperate lots. Songcatcher is right, if you wait til you actually see it, then it could be too late.

 

[gatorbait4sure]

Even without the erection he's in with Triple today......Who was wondering how he got so lucky as to have a big haypile all his own, until the other stall door opened......

 

[disneyhorse]

I've heard to separate colts at 8-9 months old, as that is the earliest recorded time they've been fertile and bred mares.

Andrea

 

[Marty]

I'd separate him too in a heartbeat! Get that boy a roundbale and let him go to town on it!

 

[targetsmom]

I hope I have a few days left - mine is not quite 8 months old and there is so much ice everywhere that it limits the possibilities. By tomorrow we will have MORE snow and once I shovel the gates open (again) I might be able to turn him out with another boy.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

If you see an erection you're too late. Separate them before they are 10mo old, if not earlier. You will be very sorry if you don't, even in January.

 

[albahurst]

My 2 month old colt even had erections and was mounting the mares! He and his mom were separated from the others at age 2 months. I kid you not- he was literally attempting to breed my mares at that age. And, my mares in heat would actually stand for him. We brought out the estrumate and got him out of there! I never would have dreamed a colt would be so 'apt' at that age.

 

[LindaL]

I'd separate him too in a heartbeat! Get that boy a roundbale and let him go to town on it!

LOL Marty! You are too funny!

I separate boys at weaning as well...No need to take any chances.

 

[Songcatcher]

My 2 month old colt even had erections and was mounting the mares! He and his mom were separated from the others at age 2 months. I kid you not- he was literally attempting to breed my mares at that age. And, my mares in heat would actually stand for him. We brought out the estrumate and got him out of there! I never would have dreamed a colt would be so 'apt' at that age.

I had one very similar, about 3 months. Took him to the vet and that was the end of that. Even though I doubt he could actually be fertile at that age, he was certainly a nuisance.

 

[Carolyn R]

I too have them seperated by 10 months. If there is a mare that is far enough along that it would be obvious if she aborted, this is sometimes a good way to have them in with an elder, it also teaches them how to act around mares (you don't want to chance them slipping and absorbing the fetus only to be bred by a young yearling).

I do have a rule of thumb, unless a colt is absolutely phenominal, in which case you may be likely to have interested parties prior to 1 year old, they are gelded. I have two wonderful stallions and have no desire to have more male hormones to deal with. When I list a horse as "last chance prior to gelding in one month" I really do mean last chance, it is never a selling gimic.

My vet always inspects everything when gelding to see if they are producing sperm, I have yet to have any that are under 10 months show signs of production, but why chance it.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

How does your vet inspect for sperm?

 

[Carolyn R]

After using the imasculator and removing the testicles along with the section of spermatic chord , she checks it by poking and proding, and whatever other means she uses to inspect them to see if there is any discharge from what has been removed. It is not foolproof, that is why I seperate them by 10 months. The testicles on the young colts are still very small at this point, also another indication that the colt has not yet reached puberty. Likewise, an older colt which was purchased at 5months that was purchased as a perspective stallion, was utterly unrulely and could not cope with his hormones was gelded at 2. This colt did have larger testicles and did have discharge upon inspection of the testicles/spermatic chord.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Without a microscope and much more diagnostics there is no way to tell. You can not determine anything just by "poking and prodding" and looking for discharge.

Puberty and fertility are correlated to size and such but in no way exclude it. Prepubescent colts will look no different then colts that recently went through puberty. Yes, as they age they will produce MORE sperm and have larger testicles, but even youngsters just a few months old will produce sperm. It just won't be fertile.

You are making very logical evaluations, don't get me wrong! Everything you said makes perfect sense. However, don't get yourself trapped in logic when the basic science isn't solid. Unfortunately, this is a case where what you see isn't necessarily what is going on on a cellular basis.

 

[HGFarm]

I agree Nathan, in the part of having to do further exam to tell.....

I also seperate my boys and girls in their first winter.... I have a couple that I am getting ready to seperate. He shows no inclination and she has not been in season, but if anything like her mother was in her yearling year- she was such a hussy when in season and would do just about anything to try to get to a stallion. Holy cow! I dont like taking any chances either.

I also had a colt that by about 4 1/2 months- he was not even weaned yet, was literally teasing mares and trying to breed them, including his own mother. When he went to his new home, I warned them about his desire to breed already and to NOT put him out with fillies or the mares. I guess they didnt believe me so got an email about 2 months later explaining that they had to seperate him due to his 'advancement' in age and they were surprized. I was not kidding! His sire settled a mare (this was 20 years ago) at a year old, so they CAN do that!

 

[Carolyn R]

Without a microscope and much more diagnostics there is no way to tell. You can not determine anything just by "poking and prodding" and looking for discharge.

I am not turning this into a debate, LOL, I am a huge supporter of gelding those boys, or at the very least seperating them in a timely matter. You asked how my vet observed sperm production in young colts while out in the field, and I explained. Any of the vets at the practice would be happy to do more conclusive evalutaions but I have never had a reason to have her tote the parts back to a lab, my colts are seperated well before this point. Keep in mind she is gelding horses that I have already seperated for a few months, so there is never an issue as to whether there has been an accidental breeding. I would never suggest, if someone needed to know beyond a doubt, to rely on this type of observation alone.

As stated in my first post, this is exactly why I stated that colts should be seperated by 10 months old, (if not sooner). It is just an evaluation that my vet addresses by observation while out in the field, without the lab equipment at hand. Which is the point to this post, be responsible, seperate those boys!