What would you do,,,,,,health MAY be passed on

[Frankie]

What would you do?

You have a horse with a health problem,,,,,,controlled though.

You have checked with a number of Universities and specialists and spent hours talking about it and investigating.

NO ONE can say for sure the health problem is hereditary, not enough studies done,,,,,,,,you have been told the only way to know for sure,,,,,is to have one foal and have the foal checked after 6 months of age.

This particular health problem,,,,,,,,,,,they "believe" is either hereditary or not.

So one foal will tell you.

What do you do??????

That one foal may have problems forever,,,,,,,,,,or may not?????

Do you take the chance with one????

This is a top horse,,,,,,,,is it worth it to find out if the horse can produce MORE than the one????

 

[Cathy_H]

I agree with ML. I would want to know the health issue first. If controlling the condition allows the horse to live a comfortable normal life then I might consider trying it one time. I am assuming it is a mare - if it is a stallion I would not as there are too many nice stallions available for breeding............... If the mare can live a normal comfortable life with the help of meds ( assuming it is meds) then the foal can also. IF the breeder cannot afford to keep the resulting foal IF it inherits the condition and cannot afford the meds or treatment then definately NO... Then again the breeder may not be able to keep the resulting foal forever to keep it comfortable/ healthy so I probably would say no.

 

[user 488]

This particular health problem,,,,,,,,,,,they "believe" is either hereditary or not.

HUH?

Well, first I have to say EVERYTHING that happens to you health wise IS "hereditary or not". So that statement alone means absolutely nothing. I agree.....would have to know the problem first.

Every living thing is going to die from something or have something wrong with it. Do you not breed a mare or stallion whose parent died of cancer? or heart disease?

Maybe I am just confused

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[Nathan Luszcz]

Lots of things are passed on, and lots of things are not. And some are both. What exactly is the health concern that is in question?

 

[Loess Hills]

Is the top horse with a "health" problem a stallion or mare?

 

[Frankie]

Stallion, and it is controled with meds.

I have my reasons why exact problem can not ge given.

This horse did not get it from sire/dam,,,,,,,,his body created it, so to speak.

Other than meds, he does fine.

Carol,,what I was saying was, if the first foal does not get it,,,neither should any future foals,,,,,,if the foal does get it,,mostly likely they will all have it, in which case there would be no, all.

 

[user 488]

Carol,,what I was saying was, if the first foal does not get it,,,neither should any future foals,,,,,,if the foal does get it,,mostly likely they will all have it, in which case there would be no, all.

Well, OK, so say it is hereditary? That does not mean that ALL resulting foals will get whatever it is that you are talking about. It is no different than coat color or eye color. There are percentages you are dealing with here. It's not an all or nothing thing.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

If one foal would prove it it will make a medical first!!

Cystic Fibrosis is only 50% and they screen humans for that.

 

[user 488]

If one foal would prove it it will make a medical first!!

Cystic Fibrosis is only 50% and they screen humans for that.

Yes, Jane......that is what I am talking about.

Look at the percentages when breeding HYPP and SCID horses. Just because a horse is positive doesn't mean the resulting foal will be positive.

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

Then no, I wouldn't ever breed him. Castrate or not, if there is a good chance that the foal MIGHT have a perminent condition (without knowing what condition it is) then no, he's not a breeding horse, period.

 

[Frankie]

I was only giving information that was provided to me by people who have studied this condition and many other things.

Was not arguing the hereditary or not,,,,,,,,I have been given those answers, was not my question.

Since I can not provide what it is,,,,,,I shouldn't have asked.

I'll keep checking with a few other specialist before a decision is made.

thanks

 

[Loess Hills]

Since the "health" problem may or may not be hereditary, there's a very simple answer. Don't allow him to breed, make him a "top" gelding, and then you don't have a problem.

 

[kareng]

My question would be if they don't know if it is hereditary then how do they know that one foal will tell if it is and why you would check the foal after 6 months of age. Is this when the stallion developed symptoms? Unless it's a well documented or researched disease then how can you know what to expect and to predict what may or may not happen? The stallion could also be recessive for the gene and might only have a problem when bred to a particular mare that also carries the same gene causing the disease.

So hard to tell without more details. Anyway just my opinion.

kareng

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[minimule]

I would have to say "don't breed him", geld him. If he didn't have the problem at birth, it developed.....could the foal not do the same thing???? Then if the foal wasn't born with the problem but developed it later, you might be under the impression he doesn't pass it on and breed him to more mares resulting in more foals with the same issue.

I'd geld.

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[Sunraye Miniatures]

Well let me ask you this question.

If his foals do end up with this potential problem, and it is stuck with them for the rest of their lives, would you keep the foals and take care of the problem yourself, or you sell them and the new owners get stuck with the problem? Not trying to sound like a mean person here, just an honest question IMO you need to ask yourself.

IMO why even risk it. Why put the foals in jeopardy. Plus, now that people see this, perhaps people might not want to get a future foal from this stallion if it is a health risk to the foal. You say hes a top notch stallion, he can make a top notch gelding, and heck who knows by gelding him his health might get better.

 

[FoRebel]

My opinion is if what the stallion has is going to make the foal's life difficult, then no, it's not worth breeding and I would geld immediately. If this is a controlable thing then it would be a difficult decision to breed or geld. Nothing is 100% for sure and everything is either history or a guesstimate. Is it worth putting another horse at risk just to find out if something is going to affect every foal born to this stallion??? In my opinion I would geld because you could breed one foal that wouldn't end up with the ailment and the next foal born might end up with it anyway. Who knows what you're going to get with genetics! IMO... GELD GELD GELD!!!

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[Buckskin gal]

It would really help if we all knew what this issue is. The longer I am into miniatures the more I learn about all the problems within them. Between dwarfism and LS alone, there is so much to consider when doing a breeding. Some people believe it is okay to continue breeding stallions that have produced dwarves, and there are those who don't seem to find it a problem to breed from lines that have LS issues.....just two health issues to consider ......we need to know about other health issues also so we can make educated decisions when breeding. I hope you will eventually let us know what the health problem is, Frankie, for we all need to learn. We don't want to produce just beautiful miniatures we want to produce those who are as healthy as possible. I doubt if any person who loves the breed would consider breeding anything that wasn't fit and had a chance for a healthy life. Mary

 

[Frankie]

We were looking along the lines of ethics.

If this stud did have a foal,,,,,,,,,there is no plans for the foal to go anywhere, except the farm the foal is born to.

Plus, now that people see this, perhaps people might not want to get a future foal from this stallion if it is a health risk to the foal.

I have not mentioned the name of the horse, the owner or even what country the horse was in.

I have been helping someone get important information,,,,,,,,where this farm is,,,,,,,,not much is avaliable except a few country side vets,,,,,,no real equine specialist close at all. And as I gather information I pass on to them, they share with their vet and thus have the problem under control.

Their concern,,,,,if I disclosed the health problem, some may or may not figure it out and she wanted thoughts with out judgement. It's not a black and white answer, not one you get from a vet, so I told her I would ask here, you would offer moral responses and give YOUR thoughts. This person is a wonderful, kind person who LOOKS for the right answers for her horses.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[Reble]

I think the problem is with the owner, I feel they are asking for the OK to breed a possible hereditary problem, they alone have to decide. Without knowing the situation. :new_shocked:

What is your opinon Frankie? You know the full story.........