What to do?

[Viki]

You buy a mare that is supposed to (have not been bred) be open. Wasn't told she had been bred last season. Get her home and a few weeks later she looks like she could be in foal so you have your vet check her. Low and behold she is in foal! Go back to the seller with the news and the seller is very unhappy. Seller forgot to mention that the mare had been bred. Seller refuses to do the paperwork to register the foal. Now what do you do?

Anytime I've sold a mare that has been bred, I always supply the paperwork to register the foal, if the mare is determined to be in foal. I think that's just being a responsible breeder!

Back to the point, you thought you were buying a 'never been bred' mare so didn't have to worry about fertility issues or infection. Now she is carrying a foal not by your stallion and the foal will be unregistered even though you've offered to pay for the necessary paperwork to be done.

Would I be the only one thinking this seller is not acting responsibly?

Viki

 

[ChrystalPaths]

Very mean and unnecessary for the person to be difficult. How hard is it to sign the papers and give them to you. I assume you would pay the late fee for the report. I would be upset also.

 

[lvponies]

Sometimes little oops do happen, but when they do, the responsible breeder should do everything in their power to make it right. In this case, the breeder should supply you with everything you need to register that foal. It would be unforgivable if they don't and I would be highly ticked off!!

 

[bevann]

I would really hope the breeder would do the right thing and give you paperwork so the foal could be registered.Maybe a small amount of cash from you would sweeten the deal.If not ,you are stuck with an unregistered foal.If she won't give you the paperwork, as a last resort, I would not hestitate to tell her you won't keep her name a secret from anyone who asks.Good business practices go a long way in aiding a reputation in business. Bad news and bad practices get noticed by many people and word travels fast.I hope the breeder does the right thing.It is not your cause or problem that the mare was bred when she shouldn't have been.Good luck.

 

[Miniequine]

Would I be the only one thinking this seller is not acting responsibly?

NO! Your are absolutly right! I hope the situatation can be resolved.

 

[~Karen~]

One thing popped into my head... what is the seller trying to hide from you?

This seller knew that she was bred and how can a person simply just "forget" about it? It just doesn't sound right, and I would be very upset over the situation. No papers, what's up with that?

~Karen

 

[disneyhorse]

Since the mare was sold as "open" as a seller I wouldn't feel obligated to supply paperwork to register the foal. I would just chalk it up to letting it go as a "bonus" foal.

That said, unless I had reasons for not wanting the foal to be registered (I had a stallion that I didn't think would cross well with the mare and didn't want his name on the resulting foal) I would feel it fair to pay the stallion's stud fee in order to gain a stallion breeding certificate.

If I were you, I would offer the stud fee if you felt it necessary to get a registered baby.

That's my opinion.

Andrea

 

[backwoodsnanny]

No Vicki this is just wrong. Unless of course the mare was bred by an unregistered stallion or colt and the owner doesnt know how to tell you this. I wouldnt hesitate to out this breeder if it isnt made right.

 

[Minimor]

I agree with disneyhorse. As a buyer paying for an open mare, if that mare turned out to be in foal I wouldn't really expect the seller to provide me with paperwork on that foal for just the cost of filing that paperwork with the registry. It would be nice if the seller did just give me that paperwork, but really I would expect to be asked to pay a stud fee in order to get that paperwork.

I assume that the seller in this case knew the mare was covered by a stallion but then had reason to think that the mare never actually caught in foal--and yes, in that case (especially if it's an accidental breeding!) it is easy enough to forget that the mare was serviced once a few months ago. I don't, of course, know just what the case is here, but that's one very possible scenario. I expect that if the seller had known the mare was in foal her selling price would have been higher than it was for her as an open mare.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Wow I have to strongly disagree with having to pay a seller a stud fee in a case like this.

First off you are assuming the buyer wanted the mare bred to this stallion but more important to me anyway is the mare was sold OPEN and is not.. this could put the buyer back a year in plans as to what they wanted to do and purchased this mare for - be it showing or breeding. this puts the buyers investment (the mare) at a risk during foaling a risk they didnt want to take since they purchased a open mare (going by what was stated) More vet bills and again a year wasted be it a show season or a breeding season.

I for one don't always assume the foal is a added bonus especially if I were to purchase a mare to show, or if I wanted to have that mare cultured and such as part of a pre purchase exam and was told the mare was never bred there are a lot of reasons why that added bonus of a foal you now need to pay a stud fee for might not be looked at as a "bonus"

Who is to say if the facts are truly as presented (not doubting you just going on we are hearing one side) the Seller should not offer to pay any vet bills incurred, any hours spent on mare care, board and feed for the foal until weaning, extra feed for the mare while nursing- as well as take the foal back and register it themselves and do what they want- in essence having Seller paying for the use of the mare while it has the Sellers foal.

Ok yes I realize that is going a bit over board however it is in reality just as reasonable (or unreasonable) as asking the Buyer to now pay a stud fee

Now of course none of us know the conversations but if the buyer was not told the mare was exposed and there was a chance she was bred then why on earth would or should the seller have to pay a stud fee.

If the mare was sold as OPEN then it would be the Sellers issue to have her preg checked before she left if she wanted more money for paperwork JMO though of course.

Again we all know there is 3 sides to every story and none of us were involved in the sale I can only speak for what I PERSONALLY WOULD DO as the seller and that give the buyer the required paperwork FREE OF CHARGE of course and chalk it up to me doing preg checks before selling my mares if I wanted more money for them bred.

As a buyer personally out of principal alone I am not sure I would pay a stud fee or offer money and I would hope for a colt to geld although to be honest it would depend on the foal , the mare and the stallion involved

 

[Viki]

Lisa! You hit the nail on the head, all the way around! Thanks! Yes, the buyer did not ask that the mare be bred and was not thrilled that she was!

Viki

 

[Sue_C.]

Since the mare was sold as "open" as a seller I wouldn't feel obligated to supply paperwork to register the foal. I would just chalk it up to letting it go as a "bonus" foal.

It certainly isn't a BONUS foal if the mare dies foaling, or one of the other multitude of things that can go wrong...does.

I disagree very strongly with this seller...I would make the offer again, give a date by which I expect to receive a positive reply, and make it very clear that I would contact the registry with a formal compaint against said seller for unscrulpulous practices. And I would have no compunction at all in telling others just who this seller was. IMHO, if a seller is a great one...we tell all about them, do we not? Why is it that the "bad-guys" are always protected because we're all scared to mention their names??

IMHO, this seller is in the wrong for wrongfully representing this mare for sale...and should be making tracks to be as helpful as possible to prevent any reprocussions, should something happen to this mare, should she become unable to carry a foal again, or even die, as a result of this pregnancy.

Lisa... :aktion033: :aktion033: :aktion033: Agree with you 1000%

 

[Beccy]

I have to agree, that unless the buyer was made aware that there was a possibility that the mare was in foal, the foal would not necessarily be a "bonus".

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Absolutely this is NOT right!!

If I bought a mare as open I would expect her to be that way or you would be hearing form my lawyer!!

If you bought a diesel car, got it home and found it had slipped the sellers mind that it was, in fact, gas, how would you feel???

This is misrepresentation and the buyer, at the very least is owed all Vet fees incurred due to foaling and the papers for the foal, clear and simple.

Supposing the buyer had been a first time owner with NO foaling experience and no desire to have a foal- how much of a bonus is a dead foal and mare, by the way??

This is just wrong- obviously you do not want to be talking of suing every five minutes but I think this does need to be run by a solicitor- again, when you buy, when you sell, PUT IT IN WRITING- it protects BOTH parties.

 

[Frankie]

Right now I am both the buyer and a seller in cases involving paperwork. You would think with me having both sides, the outcome for me would be for the better at least on one side, but not the case. But it is what it is. I had a mare that left as open, was tested as so, ended up being in foal. Stallion report, dna being done by me. This person expressed being excited about it, as they now know the mare can get in foal.

I have another horse that could be registered in both registries, but is only registered in one. I have tried for years to get signatures to get the horse in the 2nd registy, but can't seem to get it done. So I have pretty much given up. With that, I have offered to pay all fees and pay them for their time to sign the papers, still nothing.

Yes, the buyer did not ask that the mare be bred

I could be wrong, but the above sounds like this is about a 3rd person. So I don't want to make a comment on this exact situation. Weird things can and will happen, if there is one of those things in this case, we aren't aware.

There is legal, and there is what is right. I think most do the legal thing,,,,and many try to do the right thing, but I see some of the problem as what the definition of Right, is.

 

[anita]

You buy a mare open, paid for her in full she is yours. Deal done fo all parties, its a business.

If it turns out mare is in foal ( your luck) the foal is yours and seller shall provide papers.

This sound for me logic

Anita

 

[Lauralee]

From a legal standpoint, unless the buyer has a contract that explicitly states that the mare is guaranteed to be open, there is not much of a case.

The seller may not have any idea who the sire of the foal is. It could be sired by a donkey for all we know. In which case there would be no papers to have.

Horses are unpredictable livestock with minds of their own. It is not that far fetched that a mare gets pregnant through a fence. Things happen.

In today's market, open mares generally sell for less than bred mares. Because of this, the mare was sold at the price of an open mare. I do think that in order to determine the father and issue papers, a stud fee is in order.

We also don't know the selling price of the mare. If this mare sold for less than $1000 then I'd say the buyer got a great deal and why complain. But if this mare was much more expensive than that, let's say $3500 in today's market, then the seller could have made enough profit to give the buyer a break. If the mare was bought at auction then there are generally no guarantees. That is the risk of buying livestock.

We also don't know the status of the father....is he living, dead, registered or not? What if he is a National Grand Champion that accidently bred an inexpensive sale mare through the fence? This might change our opinion of the situation. Especially if he is well advertised and carries an expensive stud fee.

Either way, we are only getting the buyer's side of the story. There may be untold circumstances. There are definitely unanswered questions that would be relevant to the situation, such as:

Was there a contract?

Was the mare guaranteed as open in the contract?

What was the selling price of the mare?

Do we know who the sire of the foal would be?

Was she exposed to multiple stallions?

Was there a stallion report filed for the mating?

Is there DNA already on file for the father?

What are his accomplishments?

What is the usual stud fee for this stallion?

Is the mare a suitable candidate for breeding (ie no offbite or crooked legs or dwarfism traits)?

Those are just questions I would have, before giving my opinion about the matter. Forgive me if these things were already mentioned in previous posts.

 

[Jill]

Well, for one thing buying a "never bred" mare shouldn't do anything to make someone think there AREN'T fertility issues and as far as infection, if that's a concern -- have a vet check the mare.

Really, I'd be interested in knowing the stallion owner's side of the story before stating any opinion because this post gives only one side and we all know how that can go...

 

[Miniequine]

I had a mare that left as open, was tested as so, ended up being in foal. Stallion report, dna being done by me.

I don't understand. If your mare tested open, you must have bred her? shouldn't she

be on your stallion report anyway? just curious?

 

[Magic]

Well, for one thing buying a "never bred" mare shouldn't do anything to make someone think there AREN'T fertility issues and as far as infection, if that's a concern -- have a vet check the mare.

Really, I'd be interested in knowing the stallion owner's side of the story before stating any opinion because this post gives only one side and we all know how that can go...

I agree with Jill as to only hearing one side of the story. But, if this mare really was sold as "never bred" and she obviously WAS, that makes me wonder a bit. "Never bred" and "open" are very different things.

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