What Should I Do?

[Tremor]

I need some major help.

I'm trying to try to persuade my dad to let me geld our stallion so I can show him in FFA/4H/Local/Miniature horse shows. I also want to train him how to drive. I am also planning on showing his yearling colt, Pete, too.

He's been shown before as a younger horse. He even got a 1st!

I've also been working with him already, and boy is he good! And he has the temperament of a gelding.

But to show him locally, and in 4H/FFA, I would have to geld him. My parents are defiantly balking at that. They're thinking from a financial stand point.

In 2005 we bought him for $1,200. We can't sell him now at $600.

So, my parents are thinking that if we geld him and train him that people won't want to buy him even if the market is up again. Is that true? If the horse market were to go up again and he were trained and shown would people want him? I think so. He'd be suitable for a small child in 4-H.

But, that got me thinking. Maybe, instead of showing him locally and in 4H, then maybe I could show him without gelding him at some miniature horse shows?

This is Buddy. (Bad angle. I know. Never have a non-horsey person take pictures for you!)

What would you do? What can I do?

Does anybody know of any places that I can show him in Iowa or Northern Missouri?

Please help me!

EDIT: Never mind about the showing in Miniature horse shows, because I'm almost positive that you have to be 18 to show a stallion.

 

[supaspot]

I cant help you Tremor as Im in a different country but if he was here I would say a trained gelding would be just as valuable as a stallion possibly more so , it might help others answer you questions if you gave them more info , such as is he registered ? who with ? what are his bloodlines ?

 

[Tremor]

I cant help you Tremor as Im in a different country but if he was here I would say a trained gelding would be just as valuable as a stallion possibly more so , it might help others answer you questions if you gave them more info , such as is he registered ? who with ? what are his bloodlines ?

That's what I thought. A lot of people would love a trained gelding shown by a youngster.

Buddy is registered. He's registered with the AMHR and AMHA.

Here's his pedigree on Allbreedpedigree. I don't have an account with any Stud Books, but I'm sure you could look him up if you (or anybody else) has an account.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/dagnillos+crown+jewels

 

[Tremor]

Ok, I just looked.

In the AMHA rules, no youth 12 years of age or younger may show/drive a stallion. So, I CAN show him.

But, how do I get involved with this kind of stuff?

 

[Songcatcher]

Is this the sire of your dwarf foals? If so, I would say he would be worth far more as a gelding than as a stallion.

 

[Tremor]

Is this the sire of your dwarf foals? If so, I would say he would be worth far more as a gelding than as a stallion.

Yes, and exactly what I was thinking!

 

[ohmt]

Oh yes, DEFINITELY geld him. With him being a known carrier of the dwarf gene along with the stallion market being really down right now, he will be worth much more as a trained, shown gelding than a stallion. I love his build-that along with his great personality, he is going to make one heck of a versatile show gelding! I have been selling most of my boys as geldings to 4H homes so there is a good market for youth show geldings. Plus, if you can get him driving, I can't even count know how many people I get asking for a good driving gelding.

 

[midnight star stables]

IMO, gelding are the future of the breed and I love them! If I had more room, I'd be buying a few more geldings.

And since he has sired a dwarf, his value has most likely unfortunately decreased. The thing with horses is you can never count on making money, or even breaking even. Fortunately, they are amazing creatures worth far more then their weight in gold.

I've just become accustomed to being poor and loving my horses.

Check AMHA and AMHR's websites for show dates in your area. Shows are SO much FUN!

Good Luck.

 

[hobbyhorse23]

Geld! Many mini shoppers have a (to my mind) unreasonable obsession with buying stallions no matter what the quality, but even they will balk at a stallion who is known to have sired dwarves. I personally feel there's a good market for a sound, well-trained, safe child's performance horse but you have to advertise the right way and to the right people. Your gentleman would be a wonderful candidate and fun for you in the meantime!

Leia

 

[RhineStone]

Good performance horses are (or should be) worth more than an average stallion who doesn't have any performance training or show record. There are WAY too many mini stallions in this world! If they were big horses, most would be gelded because they are not good enough quality to be a stud. But because they are generally more easy to handle than a big stud, lots of mini owners keep them whole.

IMO, the only minis that should be left whole are the awesome specimins of the breed. That is how you get better quality.

Cut the stud, train it to do something, and you will have a better horse because of it.

 

[ruffian]

Kudoes to you for wanting to geld your boy. He's cute, and would make an amazing gelding. Plus he would happier because he could go out with other horses instead of being kept in a pen by himself as many stallion are.

Congratulations on being a forward thinker!

 

[sundancer]

From a buying perspective I would pay as much or more for a nice broke gelding than stallion. I love to show so a gelding or mare are worth far more to me than a stallion.

Just my opinion as a buyer

Julie

Victory Pass Stable

Maine

 

[iowa]

Hi. Just got the Miniature Horse World and read the wonderful article on the gelding, Grandview's Toy Soldier, the Supreme Halter Champion at World's. That family enjoys that horse so much and shares his many talents with others (another article in the World). I geld all my stud colts that I am going to keep and have five that are trained to drive. I would not show a stallion in a driving class as I just don't trust them. (but then I am an amateur although I've been showing for 15 years!) I know other amateurs do and I appalud them, but a nice gelding or mare is just so much more fun to be with at a show. Geld your stallion and have fun at the shows. I wish you many years of happiness showing him.

 

[TyeeRanch]

Just follow the old saying "a good stallion makes a great gelding". I have followed this and it reigns true in big horses and in minis. Especially if your stallion has produced a dwarf. No reason he could not be a wonderful gelding.

 

[Katiean]

I am not surprised that your stallion threw a dwarf. If you look at his pedigree "Dell Teras Lord of the Isles" is himself a dwarf (IMO). IMO any mini combo can produce a dwarf. The foundation stock did consist of some dwarfs. What blows my mind is Dell Teras Lord of the Isles was the sire of the 1980 World Grand Ch. Sr. Mare. I know that a dwarf can be a problem as far as medical care. However, IMO we will never get rid of that dwarf gene. So, gelding everything that will from time to time produce a dwarf is really not a good practice. My reasons for this is that we will end up with no stallions to breed to. This will be good for the few that do not geld what they feel are there best stallions even when they do get a dwarf. They just won't talk about the dwarf foals and we will have high stud fees to get a foal. Not a good thing.

OK I have my flame suit on now let me have it.

 

[ohmt]

I definitely disagree Katiean-the advances and breakthroughs that scientists make every day are remarkable. I volunteer at a few labs here on the NDSU campus as I am a microbiology major, and it really amazes me the type of things that are being studied and discovered. That being said, I am VERY confident that at least one gene associated with dwarfism will be found soon.

ALL horses that have produced a dwarf NEED to be taken out of the gene pool-I am a very open minded person, but this is a subject that I just can not see the other side of. Crossing 2 non-dwarf minis together, there is always a risk of getting a dwarf with its prevalence in our breed. But if you breed a known carrier, no matter if the horse it's bred to is a known carrier or not, the chances of producing a dwarf drastically increase and you are setting yourself up for heartache.

We have been very lucky here-in over 30 years of breeding, my family has only ever had 1 dwarf foal. The mare that produced the dwarf was retired and the stallion was immediately gelded. While I have loved every minute with that sassy little dwarf filly, I would never wish her conformational problems on any other horse.

With what we know now about dwarfism and all of its negative health effects, as well as the influx of high quality horses being sold for very affordable prices these days, there is absolutely no excuse for a dwarf or a known carrier for the gene to be in anyone's breeding program.

ETA: Not ALL miniature horses are carriers. I can't remember what John had estimated to be the percentage of carriers. What is it, about a 1/4? So culling all known carriers of the dwarf gene from the breeding pool will not give us no stallions to breed to. There will still be plenty and we will be on the path to creating a more sound miniature horse. That's what every breeder should be aiming for, right?

 

[Sandee]

So you know that in the breed AMHA & AMHR shows, and Iowa has many, that youth 13 and over (age as of end of Dec. previous year of showing) can show stallions. You've already found the rulebook and on their websites (at least AMHR) you can find the location and dates of the shows.

However, I commend you on wanting to geld your horse. Since you don't want to breed him (and that makes a lot of sense on many levels), he'd be happier as a gelding. Good luck and hope to see you at some shows in the future.

 

[supaspot]

I was wondering how you all know the stallion is the carrier and not the mare , has he produced several dwarfs to different mares ?

 

[Maple Hollow Farm]

I agree with everyone else that you will enjoy him soo much more as a gelding and that he will be happier as well. There are getting to be a lot more people who appreciate a well broke gelding!

I was wondering how you all know the stallion is the carrier and not the mare , has he produced several dwarfs to different mares ?

Both horses have to carry the dwarf gene to produce a dwarf so therefore you know that both the mare and the stallion carry the gene.

 

[mdegner]

I believe there are several miniature clubs in Iowa and I would think they would love to have a youth join their club. Just do an internet search or perhaps some of the people on this board from Iowa will jump in? I am not sure where you are located in IA but it sounds like southern IA. If you are central or northern or western IA considerd the SDMEC (South Dakota Miniature Equine Club) or the MMHC (Minnesota Miniature Horse Club). Our MMHC shows are almost always in Winona MN which is just over the border from IA. And we would LOVE to have you join.....

Good luck to you (and I vote geld him for all of the reasons others have mentioned.) It is great to see a young person getting involved!!!!