What is it with people and

[ruffian]

I'm not familiar with breeding quarter horses, so how can a horse sired by a thoroughbred be registered as AQHA? No Flames please - just ignorance on my part!!

 

[Marty]

Hi Ruffian, Appendix registry. Half tb like my horse Sonny.

 

[minicount]

I think what she is saying is that some breed too many and have alot of foals at once for sale. 

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Do you realize some of the industries top farms with the most sought after bloodlines produce as many as 100 colts a year? Are they hurting the industry? I highly doubt it. Lumping all breeders who breed more than three mares as hurting the industry is just about as accurate as saying all farms that breed less are substandard backyard breeders.

There are, most likely, 20 people who breed three or less mares a year to one who breeds 40. Quality not quantity goes both ways.

I guess we have a different name for some one who starts the fight around here rather than victim.

Ruffian the QH association has always allowed the outcross to TB's although under the old rule this colts sire would not have been allowed because of his excessive white. That ruling was changed just this past year despite over 85% of the members polled said they did not want "pintos" in the association.

 

[Pepipony]

Far too often people breed with the intentions of keeping the get 'forever'. Then when the foal grows up its not what they expected and off it goes. If its lucky it finds a home. If its not it finds the grocery store in some far off shore.

There are great studs at great prices, if I recall right the Babcock ranch offers some at $500, cant beat that. If a person cannot afford a stud fee, then maybe they shouldnt breed the mare to begin with. We all know horses aint cheap LOL When planning on breeding , you have to ask yourself, above all else, will this breeding better the breed or at the very least does this pair have the best attributes to pass along?

Around here many people breed 'just because' or 'just to see what will come out' and while what they do is surely their business, it is wrong when they know there is little chance they will keep the foal and quite often that is just a death sentence for the horse.

 

[minimomNC]

Well I can see both sides of the original question. Nicole did say she was selling all of her minis and going to consentrate on breeding her colt when he was old enough, even did a new website to announce it. this was an old thread. Nothing wrong with that, but to say you are going to bred and then ask why do people think they should breed will confuse anyone. I see where people would question why she of all people would ask it. No harm meant and when she explained it made sense.

As for me, I have one mare in foal right now for April 2006, she is for sale. She is a nice mare and should have a nice foal. Nice isn't what I am looking for in a show horse now, I want awesome. So in my own hopes of getting that, and yes i know you can't depend on breeding anything, I am breeding my Reserve World Champion mare to a Reserve National Grand Champion Stallion. Both have proven themselves in the ring (yes both are AMHA titles and there were more than 10 in their respective classes, plus they have multiple grands and supremes between them) So I am going to try to raise a show quality foal, one foal in 2007, thats it. That is just my hopes for the future, as with any game you never now how it will turn out.

 

[C & C Farms]

Minicount - YES it does hurt the industry when people are selling their horses cheap! I know the market is down right now, but lets not give them away either! When horses are selling for more money....do you not get more money for yours when you sell it?? When the market is down....then the effects are felt for everyone too.

I could care less how many horses people breed, they can have 100 foals a year for all I care....but when they sell them cheap it effects everyone selling. We all need to keep our prices up and not sell them so darn cheap. The Mini's I saw were registered AMHR and were very nice looking colts, worth a lot more than $500.

I guess we have a different name for some one who starts the fight around here rather than victim.

WOW....where did that come from?!

I don't know who you think is starting a fight??! I'm expressing my opinion...like it or not. Just like everyone else does, and I also said in my original post, it was just "my opinion".

I apologize to everyone if it sounded like I was criticizing anyone or being mean, it wasn't meant to sound like that. I only had the best intentions when I posted about pricing, it was not meant to be mean. All I'm saying is if we all keep our prices up and not sell the foals so low, we'll all reap the benefits!

 

[runamuk]

This whole topic is always interesting to me.........I worked for a well known arabian farm...fabulous showplace gorgeous pastures barn etc...full time staff of vets, trainers, grooms, groundsmen, etc. they were doing alot of AI and embryo transplant.....they produced upwards of 100 foals a year (arabian) of these maybe 5-10 went on to be top show horses and another 5-10 were exported the rest were sold at annual auctions often only bringing maybe $500....this same farm also jumped on the llama bandwagon with a herd of over 200 and I cannot even guess how many cria a year produced as they were all sent off to auctions elsewhere.......then there was the miniature horse part although smaller in numbers I believe they had 30 or so mares and all of these foals were also shipped back east to a farm that had auctions etc........oh and who can forget the other exotics such as jersey cows, and some very tiny deer, a few macaws, oh and the golden retrievers .......now this farm had more money than most and everything looked immaculate ( no outsiders were allowed in one specific barn) but to the outside it looked like a great place...........

so would you consider this a mill? or because they had the bloodlines and the money they were contributing to the breed?

 

[Pepipony]

so would you consider this a mill? or because they had the bloodlines and the money they were contributing to the breed?

Absolutely a mill. I wonder, of those hundreds of breedings, did they actually sit down, read through the pedigrees/etc and see if they would be a good match or just stick a mare with a stud and hope for the best?

Years ago I worked at a Cutting Horse farm and with every breeding all the above was done, and they looked at pics of both parents to see what was passed, then decided who to breed.

I have a kick arse little paint mare, built just like her ggsire Boston Mac, people have told me I need to breed her but I just cant bring myself to do it. Just too many unwanted horses out there.

 

[ILoveMyGelding]

What is sooo wrong about breeding mare for Just Wanting to?? If both animals are fed and taken care so what is the big deal? Why is it that when things like this comes on the board there is no no no you shouldn't Well if it your own animal and you want to have a baby to keep the line going or just for the sake of raising a baby... So be it.. It should be nobodies else's business what peoples do as long as they care for and love those animals~!

Anyway back to the subject--you are breaking most all the "rules" you are griping about but of course I guess they only apply to others not you which is usually the case with someone your age.

Lately there have been so many attacks on the youth on this forum as well as the newbies. I'm getting really tired of reading posts like this. If you haven't noticed I haven't posted much lately either. Everytime I have something to say I think of any way that I could be attacked and I usually don't end up posting. We all know that Nicole loves her horses and had the best of intentions with her original post. I think a lot of you are taking this way further then it needs to be taken.

Do you realize some of the industries top farms with the most sought after bloodlines produce as many as 100 colts a year? Are they hurting the industry? I highly doubt it. Lumping all breeders who breed more than three mares as hurting the industry is just about as accurate as saying all farms that breed less are substandard backyard breeders.

Minicount- Can you honestly say that out of all 100 colts being bred that all of those are top quality horses? Nowhere in this thread have I read about anyone putting down breeders who breed more than 3 mares a year. It's the breeders who breed 100 pet quality foals every year that are hurting the industry. I wish I could have the best horses in the industry but I don't. That's another reason I only breed once a year or so. We don't have the best horses...I would love to have them...but we can't afford to go out and buy top bloodlines. I have 3 mares that will never be bred again because they are simply pet quality. I don't care if they are I love them just the same. I'm not into the horses just for the business part.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Anyway back to the subject--you are breaking most all the "rules" you are griping about but of course I guess they only apply to others not you which is usually the case with someone your age.

Lately there have been so many attacks on the youth on this forum as well as the newbies. I'm getting really tired of reading posts like this. If you haven't noticed I haven't posted much lately either. Everytime I have something to say I think of any way that I could be attacked and I usually don't end up posting. We all know that Nicole loves her horses and had the best of intentions with her original post. I think a lot of you are taking this way further then it needs to be taken.

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Honey you are so wrong--most of the youth on this forum are bright and articulate but like everywhere there are a few who make the same type of blanket statements that you just have and have well earned that kind of criticism.

And no I really don't think the post was began with the best of intentions at all--attacking what others do but seemingly oblivious to her own actions. Some people need to clean up their own backyards before they go cleaning up their neighbors

 

[ILoveMyGelding]

What Nicole was saying in her original post was she doesn't agree with people who breed SO MANY horses just to make money. How many foals did she have this year? Two was it? How is that the same?

I didn't say that the youth on this forum weren't articulate and bright. I stated that I'm getting tired of people attacking others on this forum, especially the newbies and youth.

Could you please explain to me what a blanket statement is seems how I'm so young and stupid? By the way I'm 20.

 

[Margaret]

I only had one foal this year, and could have easily lost him and the dam had I not been there. Foaling out miniatures is risky business, and the unexpected can happen to anyone. also I feel the current market for miniatures is getting flooded, and slowing down, and personally I am in no hurry to rebreed anyone as it took longer than I was comfortable with, to sell this anticipated foal of mine. And when I did get an intrested buyer from out of state, I conceeded to take a considerably lower price, as I did not want to campain him for sale when he was older, although he was very lovely, and had great bloodines on both sides.

 

[whitney]

Hi Ruffian:

It would be registered as an Apendix Q.H. I have a big gray mare thats Appendix.

I'm not positive that the AQHA is still accepting Apendix horses or not?

 

[Dr. Pam]

I have no problem telling people they need to spay and neuter their cats and dogs, whether or not they have papers. So many people want their kids to "experience the miricle of birth", a friend/relative wants a puppy/kitten, the animal has papers and they can make lots of money selling (papers automatically mean breedability), they want a pup from ole Spot so his legacy will live on, male dogs/cats deserve the chance to "have some fun"....that's just a start.

Yes there are responsible breeders--people who are genuinely trying to improve their breed. There is a need for service dogs. There are also millions of animals--many purebred--being destroyed every year. I have NO PROBLEM looking people in the eye many times a day, day after day, and telling them DO NOT BREED.

I read the saleboard every day. I read the papers, I hear about the auctions (can't go). Is there doubt in anyone's mind there is an overproduction of miniature horses? I haven't bred any mares this year. I can't sell the well bred, well cared for beautiful young stock I have-all are under $1000. But what you do is your own business. Just make sure you take the kids to the auction house to balance their education on the miracle of birth.

Edited to add--I'm sorry I came in at the end of this topic--no one will see it. Happens to me a lot. I wish I could just kick my Forum habit.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

It is great to see a professional's take on the situation whose dealing with the aftermath of people's poor decisions day in and day out.

I don't think anyone disagrees that a lot of people breed for the wrong reasons or at the very least not very sound ones. But it isn't the big breeders who do the most damage, it's those thousands of "Oh I'm only going to have one or two foals, litters, etc." type of people who for whatever reason don't/can't see the big picture.

I have not produced animals for well over 30 years and I'm not about to start contributing to the problem now. There are purebred and quality animals of every type being euthanized even as we debate this topic so I couldn't in good conscience ever add to it. Don't think I would't love to have a foal from my new mare and know I could get some awsome offspring from her but there is just no reason I consider responsible enough to do so.

Everyone has their reasons and I don't begrudge them doing what they will, it's a free country. I do hope that at least some will pause and consider what the future may bring for that cute fuzzy baby they were responsible for bringing into the world long after their plans have changed.

 

[New_Image]

And no I really don't think the post was began with the best of intentions at all--attacking what others do but seemingly oblivious to her own actions. Some people need to clean up their own backyards before they go cleaning up their neighbors.

Maybe you need to get better glasses because I do not think I was attacking any one - I was stateing what makes me mad about the breeding indusrty NONE of which I am doing so "My back yard is clean" I am responsible for the life of 1 foal and he will be here forever.

Do you realize some of the industries top farms with the most sought after bloodlines produce as many as 100 colts a year? Are they hurting the industry? I highly doubt it.

In my opinion yeah. If you have 10 breeders that plan to have 100 foals, even the worlds best foals (Which that would never happen in less this was a perfect world) that is 1,000 foals a year with just those 10 breeders, and you think all those foals are going to get good homes? Even if those foals did get wonderful homes what happens to the rest of the horses? Over breeding is IMO why there are so many horses going to slaughter. I understand there has to be breeders to keep the breed going but there is so much breeding going on and it just doesnt make sence to me why one farm would feel the need to bring so many into the world when there are lots of horse farms that breed for a few foals. It also doesnt make sence with so many foals because you cant tell me they are all learning what they need to to become wonderful horses one day. Take Barnbum for example, (If you dont mind)

her two fillies get all the attention in the world and thats easy because there are two of them (And she is a wonderful horse mom) but if she decided to bring 100 in to the world would there be time spent with each of them on things they need to know? It would be a lot for any one family to handle and you cant tell me those foals would all turn into sometime you would want to handle. JMO.

And hey maybe Im off my nut but I feel bad even looking at Rodeo and thinking his two parents bred, neither of them "breeding quality" although I love Rodeo and loved Lizzy dearly and dont wish Rodeo was never around but to think how many cases like that there are, of some one breeding un registered pet quality horses, ponies, and minis to sell.

That was what I was trying to say any how, and if any one thinks Im putting hundreds of foals a year into the world or breeding poor quality horses to sell just for money, then that is your problem. I am not putting any one down here I am stateing my dislikes in the breeding bussiness.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I don't think anyone disagrees that a lot of people breed for the wrong reasons or at the very least not very sound ones.  But it isn't the big breeders who do the most damage, it's those thousands of  "Oh I'm only going to have one or two foals, litters, etc." type of people who for whatever reason don't/can't see the big picture.
I

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I am a breeder and have on avg 2-3 foals a year all of which are sold usually before a week old however.. I am aware that I am still part of the problem - I keep some mares open yearly and do my best to make wiser breeding choices each year

however.. triggy i so agree with the statement above that some just refuse to see there addiition to the problem not saying people shouldnt breed again I do but I also am aware of my contribution both good and bad to the horse industry overall

(does that make any sense at all)

And Dr Pam i agree with you everyone should go to the slaughter pens or the animal shelter to see the hundreds(thousands) of animals being killed daily they were most of them very much loved by someone at one point in there lives

there is just no easy answer I have always said even if everyone who breeds here on the fourm kept just one mare open they would have bred that would be at least 600 less foals in one year a small dent but a dent and yet breeders would and could still breed one horse from every farm would make a huge difference

 

[New_Image]

i so agree with the statement above that some just refuse to see there addiition to the problem not saying people shouldnt breed again I do but I also am aware of my contribution both good and bad to the horse industry overall(does that make any sense at all) 

Yes.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I don't think anyone disagrees that a lot of people breed for the wrong reasons or at the very least not very sound ones.  But it isn't the big breeders who do the most damage, it's those thousands of  "Oh I'm only going to have one or two foals, litters, etc." type of people who for whatever reason don't/can't see the big picture.

I

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I am a breeder and have on avg 2-3 foals a year all of which are sold usually before a week old however.. I am aware that I am still part of the problem - I keep some mares open yearly and do my best to make wiser breeding choices each year

however.. triggy i so agree with the statement above that some just refuse to see there addiition to the problem not saying people shouldnt breed again I do but I also am aware of my contribution both good and bad to the horse industry overall

(does that make any sense at all)

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Lisa I think people like you are the least of the problem as you truly appreciate the awsome responsibility of it all. You have ensured there is a place and a demand for what you produce and if someone is going to breed, I would hope they'd do it as responsibly as possible. I have seen the trend of most breeders lately to not breed all their mares every year and sometimes not breed them at all and as Martha would say, "That's a good thing"

 

[RebelsHope]

I read the saleboard every day.  I read the papers, I hear about the auctions (can't go).  Is there doubt in anyone's mind there is an overproduction of miniature horses?  I haven't bred any mares this year.  I can't sell the well bred, well cared for beautiful young stock I have-all are under $1000.  But what you do is your own business.  Just make sure you take the kids to the auction house to balance their education on the miracle of birth.

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I so agree with you Dr. Pam. I see mini ads all the time "2 mini mare and 1 mini stallion $800 for all three" "Mini Driving Gelding with cart and harness $600" I mean it is silly. I have seen pictures of these horse and they should not be bred. Just shouldn't. Yet someone is going to come along and say.. hey let's have a baby. it is only a little horse.

It goes for the dogs and cats too. Our little old dog ran away and was picked up. When we went to get her I brought my doxie. He goes everywhere with me. Out side the humane society some lady asked me if my dog was having puppies (no he isn't that fat and he is a boy) anyway she went on the explain that she wanted a little puppy for her 1,2 and 3 year olds to grow up with. I was amazed. I told her to get an adult dog from a resuce. The pup would be grown before the boys realized what it was and a little puppy and little children don't mix..

anyway off the topic.