What gives??

[~Lisa~]

The only ones who think this is a good idea...are the ones who HAVE THEM...and say the rest of us are just whining "sour grapes". I say no, that is not it...and no...it is NOT all about WINNING that almighty #@$%^&$# ribbon. It IS all about changing the entire form/type of an animal for a FAD...that too shall pass...but not before it (IMO) harms the breed.

I

Of course those with ASPC horses will and are very happy about this huge jump in their sales. Many people believe you must have a ASPC/R papered horse to win. While that is not true why on earth would the people marketing them keep telling buyer that? They are simply doing what they feel needs to be done to market their horses. It is our fault if we as a breed believe them.

I will say this again we have been told that the MAJORITY makes the decisions in this registry not anyone else and that would be the MAJORITY who go to Convention like it or not that is how i tworks now-

Remember with 1600 to 1700 minis at Nationals and lets just say we double that as a guess as to how many show thruout the year... 3000 even 4000 minis is NOT THE MAJOROITY

Those who show are the MINORITY if you do not like the rules or what is happening in and with the breed write a rule proposal for 2011 to close hardship to ASPC or whatever you feel will solve the issue... then have enough people to pass the vote.

It just so happens that those that show tend to be the same ones who are involved in the registry and go to Convention year after year. Therefore they have a say as in how things are run.

They are not taking any power away- or anything of the sort. The majority is simply choosing to give their power away

 

[Minimor]

The only ones who think this is a good idea...are the ones who HAVE THEM...and say the rest of us are just whining "sour grapes".

This statement is SO not true. I for one do not have any ASPC/AMHR horses. I have ASPC ponies, all of which are too tall to be AMHR, and I have AMHR horses. I probably won’t ever have any ASPC/AMHR horses. I’m not planning to buy any of the double registered ones, and any ponies I buy probably aren’t going to be small enough to register AMHR. When I show AMHR it will be with “straight AMHR” minis and I don’t have a problem taking them out against any ASPC/AMHR horses that may be showing…and there are getting to be more of those showing here all the time….we might win sometimes, and certainly we’re going to lose sometimes…but I’m not going to squawk that it’s unfair that I’m having to show my Minis against Shetlands. The Minis I will show are of a quality that I believe can be competitive against the ponies with some judges.

It matters not to me personally if AMHR gets closed to ASPC ponies; if that were to happen I would lose nothing. I gain nothing by having AMHR stay open to ASPC ponies. As an interested bystander I just don’t believe that discrimination against ASPC is a good thing for AMHR in the long run.

 

[ruffian]

So I will try to explain from my point of view as a "straight" mini breeder. First of all my background includes arabs, dressage and standardbreds. I have also owned and bred shetlands in the past. The Miniature horse breed was moving towards a "arab type" with the pretty head and long neck, flatter croup but also a good shoulder and a way of movement more like I so love in the dressage arena, long, flowing, with elevation but not the extreme action seen in the modern type shetland (which is more extreme even then the Park division in arabs). The roadster horse was indeed a road horse, like a standardbred in many ways, again long stride, ground covering movement.

This is not about winning in the ring, it is about two registrys that were going in differant directions.

Though I find moderns pretty to watch I do not consider the extreme and hot movement an improvement or better way of going then the dressage type movement that used to be Pleasure, infact I find it insulting when so many scorn the beautiful movement of the minis as if it was inferior and only the extreme action of the Shetland should be considered acceptable. What to me is Park type movement should not be showing against Pleasure type movement. They are not levels of the same thing but differant types of movement just as western, hunt seat, dressage and saddleseat are judged differantly.

My constant question is why should the miniature horse breed consider shetland style movement the standard? Minis have become extremely popular pursueing their own path of development, I do not see the trend towards hotter and higher as a benefit to the breed as a whole.

Why if a miniature shetland is desirable to the shetland breeders does the registry not just add height divisions to the shetland registry to include the smaller shetland and allow both breeds to evolve in there unique way, offering more options to more potential owners....growing the breeds as seperate registries?

Why should we want AMHR to becme AMSR??

I so agree!

Someone posted that the miniature horse has changed so much since the 60's, 70', 80's. Yes, and one of the best, if not THE best MINIATURE HORSE is 32 this year. His "type" is STILL winning in the show ring. If that doesn't say that there is a 'TYPE" in the miniature horse world, I don't know what would? One of his grandsons won Grand Champion Sr Stallion at Worlds, AND 4th Place Sr Stallions at Nationals last year. So a true miniature horse can compete at both venues.

I was told at a judge's clinic that there is NEVER too extreme action in a pleasure class. So the Modern/Hackney crosses are going to dominate in the pleasure driving when in reality they should be in Park. I love to watch them. It's like watching a movie lots of speed and action. But I DON'T want my grandkids to be around them. I don't want them in my barn. not because of their "Type" but because of their temperment. OK OK - no flames please! The Moderns I've been around - and I've been around plenty - are not for the novice or inexperienced handler. When it takes 6 people 30 minutes to harness a pony, that's not a miniature horse, no matter what size it is.

So that's why, in my rambling manner, I've hopefully made it clear why I like the miniature horse as it was 5 and 25 years ago. Yep, an Arabian type, with a beautiful temperment.

 

[horsefeather]

Yep, I SO agree with Sue_C, Stormy and Ruffian!!!! It wasn't so very long ago that it was HORRIBLE if you actually had shetland in your breeding. I have an AMHR/ASPC mare. She has 1 name on her Shetland papers and another, totally different name on her AMHR papers. That, my friends, was because back then you just didn't want to let anyone know about the 'dreaded' shetland background. But now, if you DON'T have shetland close in background, your horse isn't worth *&$#! I also have minis and straight shetlands (NO moderns) and I am a little tired of some who dare say the shetland has a great temperment, just like the older minis. NOT SO! There are some, yes, but the majority I've seen sure don't have that temperment. Now, granted, I only see those at shows (and I work a lot of shows), but I've only seen a handful that I would let a child around, much less myself! Approx. 14 yrs. ago, I had a great 36" mini (oh, my gosh, no shetland blood, at least if so, was so far back it wasn't on his papers) and he did it ALL. He won halter, in fact, he won in every event except lead line and costume. I didn't have a small child and I can't sew.

And he was a driving dream!!

In today's arena, he wouldn't even be looked at, that is what I find unfortunate. I miss those 'type' of minis.

Oh well, you're right Sue_C......it's :arg!

and, of course, as always, just my opinion.

Pam

 

[Minimor]

It wasn't so very long ago that it was HORRIBLE if you actually had shetland in your breeding.

So, are you suggesting that because it was horrible back then, it should still be horrible now?? That's kind of how it sounds. By the same token then, may I point out that back then it was quite acceptable to use an obvious dwarf for breeding. I guess by that standard it should still be acceptable now to use an obvious dwarf for breeding?

I think many times we see what we want to see. It’s easy to notice the hot, hard-to-manage Moderns at a show, and easy to miss the nice quiet Shetlands that are behaving well and not doing anything to draw attention to themselves. It’s easy to go to a Morgan show & watch the Park class and see some of the horses being bounced off the wall in order to get them to pick up their correct canter lead and then walk away shaking your head over “those crazy Morgans” and not wait around to see the youth classes and their perfectly mannered entries. And truly, many times it IS all in the handling/training. When I was a kid my friends boarded their horses at a place where another lady had a big homely appaloosa barrel horse. Everyone called that horse crazy, because he was a menace for his owner to ride. Being a kid, that didn’t worry me—on more than one occasion I wrapped a twine over his nose & slipped it over his neck like a round rein, climbed on bareback & rode him around the pasture. One day I put a halter & rope on him & rode him up & down the long lane—there was nothing crazy about him, it was all in the way he was handled. Hackneys look and act kind of wired in the show ring, but I’ve always found them to be pleasant, agreeable ponies. I know several that have been used as childrens ponies.

Some Shetlands are every bit as good natured and agreeable as the best tempered Mini. There are also some of the “old” Minis that would knock a child over & keep on going (and be smug with themselves for doing so!) There are ponies and minis that are simply too smart for the people that are trying to handle them, but overall I believe that ponies are smarter than Minis—which is why there are more people that cannot get along with ponies.

 

[Mominis]

DITTO-DITTO-DITTO!!!!!!!!!!

AND AGAIN...DITTO........

I-just-don't-GET-IT. Whay IS IT, that the park horse lover doesn't STICK to a park horse breed. I love the look too, really...I DO. but if I want a Hackney, I will buy one. If I WANT a modern Shetland, I will BUY one... Instead...I bought miniature horses, and LOVE the long, low sweeping gait that I have personally looked for, and bred for.

See...now here is a big difference. I bought a miniature horse because I wanted to try something different from the saddle type horses that I grew up with. I came to the breed due to the size factor. I do love a good park horse and I like a good Hackney, but I bought a miniature horse because that's what I wanted...a horse in miniature.

How many new people, and I mean totally new to the breed and first time buyer people, not pony people buying into the mini market, actually come to the AMHR horses for movement? I can only speak for myself. The only minis I had seen before buying one were at horse expos, fairs, and one ancient lesson mare that we used for beginner drivers to learn with before moving up to their big horse. None of them had the motion that I've come to discover the breed has to offer. I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all, but do you think that people know about the movement these horses can have when investing in their first mini? I sure didn't.

It's a very exciting thing to learn about a new breed and I am enjoying every minute of it. But I am still having trouble understanding why it was such a great thing to look like one particular breed but it was a (to quote a post on this thread) HORRIBLE thing to look/move like any other breed than the Arabian-type.

Some Shetlands are every bit as good natured and agreeable as the best tempered Mini. There are also some of the “old” Minis that would knock a child over & keep on going (and be smug with themselves for doing so!) There are ponies and minis that are simply too smart for the people that are trying to handle them, but overall I believe that ponies are smarter than Minis—which is why there are more people that cannot get along with ponies.

I'm going to have to say that Shake, who is ASPC/AMHR is one of the kindest horses that you could ever hope to meet. He will do anything for a scratch on the belly or a big gulp of tea. He's done everything I've asked of him in training without hesitation, he is easily one of the smartest horses I've ever had the pleasure of owning, and he is smaaaaaaart!!! I think that so much of the 'good natured' and 'agreeable' traits are in the handling of the horse. Shake could be very hot, unreasonably so if he were to be handled to briskly or not given time to think his way through things. I can see how a Shetland wouldn't be the type of horse to rush throguh training. But even then, I have a problem with blanket statements about a breed based on the behavior of some, including the statement I made in the last sentence. Horses aren't inherently mean, hot, or crazy...some are just more sensitive than others, IMHO. I so agree with the words of the great Mary Twelveponies, "There are no problem horses, only problem riders." (or in this case, handlers)

Thanks for giving me such great answers, I am really enjoying watching your posts, hearing your personal stories, and listening with both ears to your opinions. This is really helping me to see the many different viewpoints on the "Arabian type is good, Shetland type is bad" debate.

 

[Ellen]

I can only speak for myself, and all of you giggle if you will, but I come from Arabs. Bask bloodlines to be exact. The stockier hunter/endurance types. And I try to emulate that in my herd simply because that is what I like. Form and Function. I love a long neck, dishy head and flowing movement, but I want a hip. It is all give and take. We must improve the breed always as breeders. But will have times when our attempts to improve falter. Flame me if you want. But look down the lines of any type of light horse. You see form and function go out the window and then you see common sense prevail. And quite farnkly, a good horse will always be a good horse. But minis and shetlands need to be compared to light horse breed, but that is JMO. They are not stock types, although some old school types are stockish. And good for brood stock when paired with the right mate. As I said. JMHO. Most good horses have a place.

And Mominis I 110% agree that shetlands are not hot. but VERY SMART! Just like my Arabs. And maybe at times get the reputation of being hot because they outsmart their human counter parts. Which I must admit has happened to me over the last 30 years more then I care to admit. But with kindness and gentle nature, they have ALWAYS returned it. Even rescues. Or unhandled broodstock.

 

[kaykay]

If ASPC/AMHR horses are fad its sure been a long one

They have been around FOREVER. Heck when I started showing 10 or 11 years ago there were tons of ASPC/AMHR horses showing. For something to be a "fad" its usually popular then gone in a couple years.

Maybe you all should take a peek at the Modern Liberty video and see how dangerous that mare is

Sue I dont think anyone is accusing you of sour grapes, but many have pointed out to you over and over that if you dont like ASPC/AMHR thats fine! You dont HAVE to breed them or own them. To each their own.

And actually my jump in sales have been ASPC registered horses. More people are finding out what great ponies they are and that they arent mean and nasty. I love it when people come here and are just amazed by how sweet all of our ponies are. I will never forget Congress last year when an Amish family wanted to see Dale our jr stallion. The whole family with about 4 or 5 kids went in a petted him. When I told them he was a stallion they were just amazed at how sweet and well behaved he is.

Kay

 

[JMS Miniatures]

They way I see it each registry is just trying to breed for something different. AMHA leans more towards the arabian look in halter, but when it comes to driving just about anyone has a chance. When it comes to AMHR its more leaning towards the shetland look in both halter and driving. They have more of an edge. Perhaps I just need to accept that. Those that are in betweeners just don't have that competitor edge over the shetlands. Yes miniature horse breeders do try and breed better and better and its going postiviley but those shetlands just take it up a notch. I think thats the frusterating part. I'm thinking this is what AMHR's route is going to take and the AMHR/ASPC horses are just going to get more popular.

As far as who is hotter I don't care what anybody says shetlands are IMO naturally hotter animals. BUT, before anybody chews my head off, with the right training you can bring that hottness in. Make them enjoyable animals to be around. I had a shetland as a yearling that was competely hard to handle. I had to take him to a trainer to even get him to lead, he was terrible, and was a lil better with training. As a 2 year old I worked with him and lets just say he competely turned around and he was enjoyable to work with. Again the right training does help. However there are miniatures out there thats the same way but there are more IMO that are just more friendly natured.

 

[ruffian]

They way I see it each registry is just trying to breed for something different. AMHA leans more towards the arabian look in halter, but when it comes to driving just about anyone has a chance. When it comes to AMHR its more leaning towards the shetland look in both halter and driving. They have more of an edge. Perhaps I just need to accept that. Those that are in betweeners just don't have that competitor edge over the shetlands. Yes miniature horse breeders do try and breed better and better and its going postiviley but those shetlands just take it up a notch. I think thats the frusterating part. I'm thinking this is what AMHR's route is going to take and the AMHR/ASPC horses are just going to get more popular.

As far as who is hotter I don't care what anybody says shetlands are IMO naturally hotter animals. BUT, before anybody chews my head off, with the right training you can bring that hottness in. Make them enjoyable animals to be around. I had a shetland as a yearling that was competely hard to handle. I had to take him to a trainer to even get him to lead, he was terrible, and was a lil better with training. As a 2 year old I worked with him and lets just say he competely turned around and he was enjoyable to work with. Again the right training does help. However there are miniatures out there thats the same way but there are more IMO that are just more friendly natured.

I agree with you totally! It took me a while to figure out what else I wanted to say. Ok Ok - I'm old! I'm entitled to a little density at times

IMOO the Arabian style miniature horse is what I want to breed and what I want to have around my grandkids. I like their 'type", I like their disposition, and I like their style and movement. I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type. Fine boned, slightly dished, short face, good, but not excessive action. Good tailset, but not broken. Comes up nicely in front, but not straight up. Sure a neck that goes on forever, but maybe not possible with this breed. Quiet temperment. Willing attitude. Maybe not the smartest animal on the planet, but not cunning either. This is what I want. This is what I breed for.

This is no different than a Quarter Horse person expressing their wants in their breed. They want a pretty head, but certainly not an Arabian one. Arabian owners want fire and dash and a pretty arched neck. Appaloosa owners would cringe! Morgans have been changed so much from the original that they can be, and HAVE BEEN duped by Saddlebred owners.

So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed. Does that mean we have to transformt he Miniature Horse breed into Miniature Modern Shetlands because we can?? Arabians were used to create the modern Thoroughbred. Should we allow Arabian stallions to sire foals and register them as Thoroughbreds? Can a Saddlebred mare be illegally registered as a Morgan? Sure can, but it was found out and caused all kinds of havoc in the Morgan breed.

Flame away - I like my miniature horses and will continue to have and enjoy them. I will continue to enjoy watching the Shetlands too.

 

[Mominis]

I agree with you totally! It took me a while to figure out what else I wanted to say. Ok Ok - I'm old! I'm entitled to a little density at times

IMOO the Arabian style miniature horse is what I want to breed and what I want to have around my grandkids. I like their 'type", I like their disposition, and I like their style and movement. I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type. Fine boned, slightly dished, short face, good, but not excessive action. Good tailset, but not broken. Comes up nicely in front, but not straight up. Sure a neck that goes on forever, but maybe not possible with this breed. Quiet temperment. Willing attitude. Maybe not the smartest animal on the planet, but not cunning either. This is what I want. This is what I breed for.

This is no different than a Quarter Horse person expressing their wants in their breed. They want a pretty head, but certainly not an Arabian one. Arabian owners want fire and dash and a pretty arched neck. Appaloosa owners would cringe! Morgans have been changed so much from the original that they can be, and HAVE BEEN duped by Saddlebred owners.

So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed. Does that mean we have to transformt he Miniature Horse breed into Miniature Modern Shetlands because we can?? Arabians were used to create the modern Thoroughbred. Should we allow Arabian stallions to sire foals and register them as Thoroughbreds? Can a Saddlebred mare be illegally registered as a Morgan? Sure can, but it was found out and caused all kinds of havoc in the Morgan breed.

Flame away - I like my miniature horses and will continue to have and enjoy them. I will continue to enjoy watching the Shetlands too.

 

[Mominis]

I agree with you totally! It took me a while to figure out what else I wanted to say. Ok Ok - I'm old! I'm entitled to a little density at times

IMOO the Arabian style miniature horse is what I want to breed and what I want to have around my grandkids. I like their 'type", I like their disposition, and I like their style and movement. I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type. Fine boned, slightly dished, short face, good, but not excessive action. Good tailset, but not broken. Comes up nicely in front, but not straight up. Sure a neck that goes on forever, but maybe not possible with this breed. Quiet temperment. Willing attitude. Maybe not the smartest animal on the planet, but not cunning either. This is what I want. This is what I breed for.

This is no different than a Quarter Horse person expressing their wants in their breed. They want a pretty head, but certainly not an Arabian one. Arabian owners want fire and dash and a pretty arched neck. Appaloosa owners would cringe! Morgans have been changed so much from the original that they can be, and HAVE BEEN duped by Saddlebred owners.

So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed. Does that mean we have to transformt he Miniature Horse breed into Miniature Modern Shetlands because we can?? Arabians were used to create the modern Thoroughbred. Should we allow Arabian stallions to sire foals and register them as Thoroughbreds? Can a Saddlebred mare be illegally registered as a Morgan? Sure can, but it was found out and caused all kinds of havoc in the Morgan breed.

Flame away - I like my miniature horses and will continue to have and enjoy them. I will continue to enjoy watching the Shetlands too.

I am really tring to understand where you are coming from here. What is it that you mean by the line, "I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type."

I'd also like a little clarification on the line, "So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed."

Just trying to figure out what exactly you mean, thanks.

 

[Minimor]

Fine boned, slightly dished, short face, good, but not excessive action. Good tailset, but not broken. Comes up nicely in front, but not straight up. Sure a neck that goes on forever,

You have pretty much described a Classic Shetland, so I don’t know how you can protest against showing against the Classic Shetlands that fit into your size division…sounds like they would fit very well into your type division too.

 

[Jacki Loomis]

Some have commented that the resistance to Shetlands and Shetland type stems only from the fact that they are "WINNING". I think this view does not fully take in the feelings of miniature horse breeders and exhibitors.

Speaking only for myself and as one who shows AMHR with horses/ponies papered AMHR & ASPC I don't believe the resistance to shetlands being brought into AMHR or crossed in is solely due to the fact that they are currently doing some winning in the show ring. I believe some resistance comes from miniture horse breeders who are very happy with their horses size, type and temperment. They are happy with what they have, that is what brought them into miniature horses and they don't want that to change.

I hope that we, as an association, can move forward in a way that is respectful of the type of miniature horse that first drew many of us to showing and breeding these wonderful little horses.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

 

[JMS Miniatures]

Some have commented that the resistance to Shetlands and Shetland type stems only from the fact that they are "WINNING". I think this view does not fully take in the feelings of miniature horse breeders and exhibitors.

Speaking only for myself and as one who shows AMHR with horses/ponies papered AMHR & ASPC I don't believe the resistance to shetlands being brought into AMHR or crossed in is solely due to the fact that they are currently doing some winning in the show ring. I believe some resistance comes from miniture horse breeders who are very happy with their horses size, type and temperment. They are happy with what they have, that is what brought them into miniature horses and they don't want that to change.

I hope that we, as an association, can move forward in a way that is respectful of the type of miniature horse that first drew many of us to showing and breeding these wonderful little horses.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

Well I had a big long post but it got deleted but anyways I agree with you. Its not about just showing its also the breeding. How many farms that have sold all of their minis just to get AMHR/ASPC stock? We miniature horse breeders can continue breeding or showing like nothing happened but if no one wants your horses then why should we. I don't care if you have a good horse if you don't have a certain papers or certain bloodlines they won't buy from you.

Going back to showing I have friends that don't want to show anymore. Because its not fun anymore and trying to compete against these shetlands is not fun. Its sad but if they stop showing I may go with them.

Thats why I asked my post a couple of weeks ago what is AMHR's direction? Are they wanting to be AMHR/ASPC fine, but these miniatures just don't have a fair fight if we don't do something.

I had something totally better then this I just competely don't remeber what I wrote the first time lol sorry.

 

[ruffian]

Some have commented that the resistance to Shetlands and Shetland type stems only from the fact that they are "WINNING". I think this view does not fully take in the feelings of miniature horse breeders and exhibitors.

Speaking only for myself and as one who shows AMHR with horses/ponies papered AMHR & ASPC I don't believe the resistance to shetlands being brought into AMHR or crossed in is solely due to the fact that they are currently doing some winning in the show ring. I believe some resistance comes from miniture horse breeders who are very happy with their horses size, type and temperment. They are happy with what they have, that is what brought them into miniature horses and they don't want that to change.

I hope that we, as an association, can move forward in a way that is respectful of the type of miniature horse that first drew many of us to showing and breeding these wonderful little horses.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

Well said Jacki! This is exactly what I am trying to say also. It's like this:

I make Chex party mix. It's my favorite food and when I make it, it's all I eat until it's gone. I use Cereal, pretzels, and peanuts in my recipe.

My sister also loves Chex party mix. She uses mixed nuts with peanuts and doesn't like pretzels in hers.

Mom, who started all this, loves pretzels and no peanut mixed nuts.

So which is right?? Who's in the best? Obviously mine!!

No, the point is they are all good to those who like them!! Does that mean I have to change my recipe to match Sis or Mom? Nope, and not going to. Does that mean I'm being disrespectful? No, just have my own preference. How would I feel if someone came along and told me that my recipe wasn't any good any more and I had to change. Right ticked off! Would I react? - very strongly!!

Mominis questioned: "So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed"

The original intent of the miniature horse creators were to develop the smallest horse possible. Some of those were dwarfs, or had dwarf characteristics. Thankfully, most reputable breeders don't use dwarfs or those with the characteristics. Many of the original "mini" horses were unregistered tiny ponies. Some were Shetlands whose breeders dropped their ASPC papers. But that was 30+ years ago. We now have a beautiful little horse that, like any other breed, has good horses and bad ones, but when you go to a show you see numerous horses that have a similar type - refined conformation and temperament. That's the miniature horse BREED I am talking about.

She also questioned: ""I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type."

I guess I should have specified the Modern ASPC pony. They have the extreme action, extreme upright neck and a more thoroughbred type head. If they come in a 34 or 36" size, that's great, but why compete against a miniature type horse? Why not compete as a Shetland pony and be happy with that? It's like taking a quarter horse to an Arabian show and expecting everybody to accept the fact that a quarter horse judge was hired, he likes quarters better than Arabs, and places the QH first. Does that make it right? When the Arab owners get angry does it mean they are damaging the breed or should they just accept it? Maybe put their "Big Girl" panties on??

The Shetland Pony has a long history of quality and performance. Why not show them as the wonderful and talented breed that they are?? They have a huge cheering section and deserve it. Let those

who love and breed them take them to their shows and support their industry.

So I'm keeping my miniatures. I'm respecting the fact that the Shetland is part of the background. I'm enjoying watching the Modern ponies show. I think the Classic Shetland is a beautiful animal. My miniatures are competitive in the show ring, and can be around my grandchildren. Life is good. I apologize to anyone I've offended in this thread, it was not my intention. Just expressing my good ol' American right of free speech.

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Can I ask a question?

Say I have a shetland that is 38 inches or less. And in my area, there are no shetland shows. Only AMHR and AMHA shows that are held in all the states around me and not even in my own state. And to show shetland I would have to travel at least three states away to show.

Now I would make the decision to show and only want to travel one state away instead of three. I show up at a AMHR show with this animal. So is someone going to tell me I need to travel to another show further away to show because I have a dual registered shetland and they don't want to show against this animal because it is a shetland.

How fair is this scenario?

 

[Crabtree Farm]

Well said Jacki! This is exactly what I am trying to say also. It's like this:

I make Chex party mix. It's my favorite food and when I make it, it's all I eat until it's gone. I use Cereal, pretzels, and peanuts in my recipe.

My sister also loves Chex party mix. She uses mixed nuts with peanuts and doesn't like pretzels in hers.

Mom, who started all this, loves pretzels and no peanut mixed nuts.

So which is right?? Who's in the best? Obviously mine!!

No, the point is they are all good to those who like them!! Does that mean I have to change my recipe to match Sis or Mom? Nope, and not going to. Does that mean I'm being disrespectful? No, just have my own preference. How would I feel if someone came along and told me that my recipe wasn't any good any more and I had to change. Right ticked off! Would I react? - very strongly!!

Mominis questioned: "So what's wrong with wanting to keep the Miniature Horse BREED as it is? Yes there were Shetlands and dwarfs used to create the breed"

The original intent of the miniature horse creators were to develop the smallest horse possible. Some of those were dwarfs, or had dwarf characteristics. Thankfully, most reputable breeders don't use dwarfs or those with the characteristics. Many of the original "mini" horses were unregistered tiny ponies. Some were Shetlands whose breeders dropped their ASPC papers. But that was 30+ years ago. We now have a beautiful little horse that, like any other breed, has good horses and bad ones, but when you go to a show you see numerous horses that have a similar type - refined conformation and temperament. That's the miniature horse BREED I am talking about.

She also questioned: ""I love to watch the ASPC ponies perform, but I don't want them against my miniature horse type. NOT MY MINIATURE HORSE SIZE - my miniature horse type."

I guess I should have specified the Modern ASPC pony. They have the extreme action, extreme upright neck and a more thoroughbred type head. If they come in a 34 or 36" size, that's great, but why compete against a miniature type horse? Why not compete as a Shetland pony and be happy with that? It's like taking a quarter horse to an Arabian show and expecting everybody to accept the fact that a quarter horse judge was hired, he likes quarters better than Arabs, and places the QH first. Does that make it right? When the Arab owners get angry does it mean they are damaging the breed or should they just accept it? Maybe put their "Big Girl" panties on??

The Shetland Pony has a long history of quality and performance. Why not show them as the wonderful and talented breed that they are?? They have a huge cheering section and deserve it. Let those

who love and breed them take them to their shows and support their industry.

So I'm keeping my miniatures. I'm respecting the fact that the Shetland is part of the background. I'm enjoying watching the Modern ponies show. I think the Classic Shetland is a beautiful animal. My miniatures are competitive in the show ring, and can be around my grandchildren. Life is good. I apologize to anyone I've offended in this thread, it was not my intention. Just expressing my good ol' American right of free speech.

Ruffian, how come you can express your American right of free speech, yet for several other people that attempt that on this forum, they are not given the right.

 

[Jacki Loomis]

Can I ask a question?

Say I have a shetland that is 38 inches or less. And in my area, there are no shetland shows. Only AMHR and AMHA shows that are held in all the states around me and not even in my own state. And to show shetland I would have to travel at least three states away to show.

Now I would make the decision to show and only want to travel one state away instead of three. I show up at a AMHR show with this animal. So is someone going to tell me I need to travel to another show further away to show because I have a dual registered shetland and they don't want to show against this animal because it is a shetland.

How fair is this scenario?

Hi Tina,

If your 38 inches or less Shetland Pony also has AMHR and/or AMHA registration papers it would always be welcome to show at a Miniature Horse show. It is too bad for folks who have limited shows in their area, we are so lucky here in Area VI as we have plenty of show options. We can go to AMHR & ASPC shows, AMHR only shows and AMHA only shows.

Jacki Loomis

[email protected]

 

[Sandee]

..........

.....................

I guess I should have specified the Modern ASPC pony. They have the extreme action, extreme upright neck and a more thoroughbred type head. If they come in a 34 or 36" size, that's great, but why compete against a miniature type horse? Why not compete as a Shetland pony and be happy with that? It's like taking a quarter horse to an Arabian show and expecting everybody to accept the fact that a quarter horse judge was hired, he likes quarters better than Arabs, and places the QH first. Does that make it right? When the Arab owners get angry does it mean they are damaging the breed or should they just accept it? Maybe put their "Big Girl" panties on??

The Shetland Pony has a long history of quality and performance. Why not show them as the wonderful and talented breed that they are?? They have a huge cheering section and deserve it. Let those

who love and breed them take them to their shows and support their industry.

.....................

......

Why not compete as a Shetland???? Well, these "odd" guy out mini-Shetlands don't seem to fit anywhere. If you show them as Shetlands, they are criticized for being too small for a Modern or too high headed for a Classic etc. If you show them as Minis, because as a height based registry - they are minis, then everyone crys foul, "they're not a 'real' mini"!

I have nice minis that compete very well but I bought one these double registered guys because I love to drive and I love their action. I happen to like AMHR shows. And yes I've been to Shetland and still prefer the AMHR show.

SO I want to know just where everyone would like these (god forbid but somehow allowed them to be bred) Small Moderns or Classics to fit?