What color is she???

[MiniHoofBeats]

I am STILL trying to figure out what color my new filly is! She is registered as grulla appaloosa but I read that grulla HAS to have black mane/tail...she clearly does not =) But she has the darker points (legs, head) and as far as I can see she does have a dorsal stripe. I am going to find out for sure once it gets warm enough to clip her, I read on here that babies can have countershading that looks like dorsal stripes? She is 6 months old. I just now read that Dun will have the darker points, dorsal stripe, but can have dark, light or flaxen mane/tail but no silver. Mom is palomino w/frosting, dad is registered a dun appaloosa (has dorsal stripe and darker points) but he looks more a silver color. Is my filly dun? (As a newborn she did not have a black mane or tail)

Dam:

Sire:

Diva (this one shows her dorsal stripe):

Thanks for any help!

edited to post a bigger recent pic of her - yes her toes were clipped since this photo =)

 

[rabbitsfizz]

this is Precious, who as you can see LOVES having her picture taken.

She is a Grulla.

This is her daughter Mouse

Who is also a Grulla.

Mouse may or may not have Cream, I do not know yet.

As you can see neither have a black mane and tail!!

I think your filly has Silver which is what is confusing the issue.

This is Mia who is a very dark Grulla- completely different to her Auntie, Precious,

but still Grulla.

 

[Watcheye]

Mini hoof beats - I am in love with that last little pic of your baby. Its too cute! I think one day I would like one this color.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Watcheye - Thank you =) She is a beautiful color and I am thrilled every time I see her, the color makes her one bright blue eye just look that much more blue!

rabbitsfizz - I looked at the color chart on AMHR and it says there that grulla HAS to have a black mane and tail...I am just so confused! lol! But then the Dun says it can have a light mane and tail, but not with the silver gene....???? I still don't get what she is...lol

I've looked everywhere for a different photo of Art Deco to see if he really looks silver...this photo of him I think looks bright and makes him look more silver than he really is...I mean, he's registered dun so wouldn't he be darker naturally?

 

[Sue_C.]

Could she be a red, or bay dun, rather than a grulla? (possibly silver bay dun?)

This is our grulla filly the day the was born, at two months, and at seven months.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Wouldn't bay have REALLY dark brown/black points though? She does have more of a reddish/brown tinge to her...she is a weird color the more i think about it lol! I LOVE her color but boy I wish I could put a name to it! Do you still think bay is a possibility or do you think bay would have black points?

 

[sam_loves_minis]

maybe a Redish/Silver Dun?? well i dont know thats a hard one but wow shes cute! maybe if u get into the showing you could clip her like in may and wait until her colours show more clearly... that might help cause that might just be her baby fur...

~samantha~

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Samantha,

Yah I think she's going to show her true colors after her first clip! She had a small spot on her neck done when the vet came out to give her a shot and it is a mousey grey color..then I took her blanket off her and saw her back for the first REAL time and she does look to have a dorsal stripe soooooo lol...so confused!

Thanks everyone for the guesses, I guess i'll wait until she is clipped and post new photo's and see then if anyone knows what color she really is!

 

[Dona]

Grullas don't HAVE to have a black mane & tail IF there are other modifiers or colors involved, such as Silver. Just as a Bay "should" have a black mane & tail & lower legs....they can be lightened when Silver is present...creating a Silver-Bay. So, a Grulla could also have lighter manes, tails & legs if the Silver gene is present.

Also....clipping will NOT show her "true color". Clipping a horse will only reveal the "undercoat" which is usually not the true color of the horse. (for instance, clipping a Palomino will usually result in a "white" looking horse. Clipping a Silver-Bay's winter coat will result in a Silver horse. etc, etc.) Once the summer hair grows back in after being clipped....THAT will better indicate what the true color of this filly will be.

:

 

[Mona]

Sue, are you certain your filly is grulla? Just curious as she sure looks an awful lot like a smokey black or very dark buckskin.

 

[sdmini]

Actually the sire, SWF Art Deco he is listed with AMHR as a silver dapple appy. He is by NXS Kings Rowdy Destroyer, silver dapple (& an HB Egyptian King grandson) and Westwinds Apache Maiden, blk appy. He is listed with AMHA as a dun app but can not find dun anywhere in his background. I can not find dun anywhere in the dam's pedigree either.

My vote is for silver dapple.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I have to say I have never thought your filly was Grulla.

Incidentally, No, Grullas do NOT have to have black manes and tails- mine have grey and blonde mixed manes and tails and are, without doubt, Grullas- well, they are Black Dun's, anyway, we tend to stick to the traditional descriptions over here so Grulla does not really exist-

I think the sire is Silver/Appy and I think AMHR (and AMHA) need to revise their colour definitions.

None of my Grullas have Silver. all of them have mixed mane and tails- I have not actually had one with a black mane and tail, they have all had the cream up the sides and grey tails.

My Buckskin mare had a brown, not black mane and tail- there are not cast in stone descriptions of colour, just definitions.

Only Mouse of all my Grullas, could have Cream, and I am not sure she has!!

:

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Dona - Thanks for the helpful tip! Ok so i'll clip her, then let her summer coat grow in, and THEN post new photo's lol =)

sdmini - yes I know AMHA has him as dun appy and AMHR has him as silver dapple appy...I too thought he was just silver dapple when I first saw him, but how to you explain that my filly has a dorsal stripe, darker head, and darker legs if the sire isn't dun or doesn't carry dun? Mom is from Lucky Four Links Goldstrike (palomino appy) and Stout's Red Wing (sorrel appy) so I doubt the dun factor comes from mom...but it has to be coming from somewhere!

Again, i'll know for a fact if the dorsal stripe is REAL after I clip her this summer =) I know she is definately too brown to be a silver dapple...what does silver and palomino make?

Rabbitsfizz - this is what I read directly from the AMHR recognized colors chart so it confused me into thinking grulla's ALWAYS have to have black manes and tails:

Grulla - Smooth grayish-blue color like a mouse (not a blue roan); always has black mane and tail, usually black lower legs and could have a dorsal stripe.

where as I read this and figured she must be a dun:

Dun - Dominant hair is some shade of yellow - from mouse color to golden; mane and tail may be lighter or darker than body; often has a dorsal stripe, mane and tail flaxen, white or black (no silver).

or could she be a red dun?

Red Dun - A dun with a reddish cast to coat; red mane and tail and often a red or black dorsal stripe, mane and tail flaxen or white.

Honestly her coat is more brown than red and that shaved part of her neck was a mousey grey color so...lol...i'm still confused, I would be definite with Dun but it says no silver and she has the silver gene from SWF Art Deco.

???

 

[Mona]

I think maybe what the misconception/misunderstanding with this case is that what you are referring to as a dorsal stripe, is a verry common trait in appys. They often keep that dark stripe up their spine, over bones etc. It is an appy coloration thing, and I'm betting not a true dorsal stripe.

:

One more quick comment...I am thinking maybe she is a smokey black appaloosa.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Mona,

i've been studying the appy coat patterns and color gene's for 8 months now and i've never heard a dorsal stripe being an appy trait...i'll post that as a question on The Appaloosa Project, you got me thinking!

I have 2 other appies and neither have an "appy dorsal stripe"...honestly the only thing I can think of is baby hair countershading, which is why I say i'll know for sure after she is clipped! But is shows clearly in the first photo of her you can see the dorsal stripe between the white fuzz coming in along her back. I will take a couple "above" back shots tomorrow and post them and see if anyone things it's a dorsal stripe or countershading...and i'll let you know what I find out about an appy dorsal stripe..never heard of it lol but I could be wrong so i'm going to check that one out! =)

Thanks!

edited: I missed the comment on her possibly being a smokey black appy...is that what you can get from a silver and palomino cross?? I am horrible at basic color genetics lol ask me anything about appy coat patterns and i'll have you but basic coat colors..pfffft not a clue! =)

 

[Songcatcher]

To answer your question about Silver and Palomino, yes, you could get a Smokey Black from crossing a Silver and a Palomino. That would be getting the Black gene from the Silver, but not the Silver gene and the Cream gene from the Palomino.

There is an explanation to basic color genetics on my web page if you want to go to it. Nothing on Appys though. That is totally out of my field.

 

[Mona]

Well, I could be wrong...it happens to me all the time!

: :bgrin But I am sure that I have had, and seen other appys that had a blanket, and yet held the darker color along the spine further up the body. Hard to explain, and I cannot find any pics. It is not a true dorsal strip...more like countershading of their other color, other than the white. That is what I am thinking it is. If she was red, the strip would be red, if palomino, it would be palomino. But since your filly looks a very dark buckskin or smokey black, her strip is darker? I don't know! Just grasping at straws here, trying to help you find an answer. LOL!

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Mona - LOL how do you think I feel! She's my filly and I can't even determine her true color!!!

Maybe in the end she simply is a grulla....wouldn't that be funny lol!!

 

[Mona]

This is an example of what I am referring to. I know I have seen more, but it may take me awhile.

 

[MiniHoofBeats]

Ahhh yes, I went and saw her in person, very pretty mare =) Are you the one who purchased her??

I know what you mean now, that's a split blanket...could be called an appy dorsal stripe for all I know but i've personally just referred to that as a split blanket sine it doesn't go over the entire back...but I know what you mean now lol!

I don't see that with my filly, she doesn't have a blanket...she has some frosting coming in but no blanket, and the "dorsal stripe" is the dark brown color of her legs and head...wheras this palomino's "split" in her blanket is the same color as the rest of her body.

She sure is pretty =) I did want to bring her home after I decided I wanted to work with the taller mini's!