War on Christmas

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

I don't think some fully understand this whole situation. Do you realize it is MANDATED in written policy to not say the words Merry Christmas if you are a public worker and even some private companies are now instituting the same thing? We cannot have anything relating to the holiday and that is not only excluding things of a religious nature. No Santas, trees, lights, candycanes, wreaths but some of us do anyway and accept the consequences if some idiot chooses to complain. Yet those who do not celebrate Christmas and have some other cultural tradition around this time of year may celebrate as they wish. The "war" as referenced in the title of this post is definately about removing any and all reference to Christmas and silencing those who still have the audacity to celebrate it.

In the schools it's sadly the same if not worse. I about spit out my hot chocolate when I read that it's OK for kids to learn about Labafana the Christmas witch but not Jesus.

So I and many others will continue to ignore and sometimes even

those who would try enforce this nonsense at every opportunity.

 

[Cimarron]

I am a Christian! I personally don't care if anyone is offended by my saying Merry Christmas! This is my right as an American! People need to learn that it is impossible to not offend anyone. I am in a wheelchair! I dont care if people call me crippled, disabled, physically challenged! [SIZE=14pt]I ride around in a darn wheelchair cause I cant walk! [/SIZE]. Who cares how I am titled! I don't! This political correctness has gone crazy! Life is not always fair and correct. Learn to deal with it and go on. If someone offends me, so what! I am an adult and I treat it with a grain of salt and go on!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON! DEAL WITH IT!!! Sheila

 

[ForMyACDs]

I don't think some fully understand this whole situation.  Do you realize it is MANDATED in written policy to not say the words Merry Christmas if you are a public worker and even some private companies are now instituting the same thing?  We cannot have anything relating to the holiday and that is not only excluding things of a religious nature.  No Santas, trees, lights, candycanes, wreaths but some of us do anyway and accept the consequences if some idiot chooses to complain.  Yet those who do not celebrate Christmas and have some other cultural tradition around this time of year may celebrate as they wish.  The "war" as referenced in the title of this post is definately about removing any and all reference to Christmas and silencing those who still have the audacity to celebrate it.

Yes, I DO understand the situation as well as understanding that there is a difference between MY time and my employer's time. It's pretty much mandated where I work too that religion not be flaunted in front of clients and you know what? That's perfectly justifiable......you know why? IT'S a JOB and not a place for a soapbox for me or anyone to flaunt their beliefs. If I want a job that allows such things then I certainly would look for one.....they ARE out there, but certainly employers have every right to stifle such behavior that would make their clients or customers uncomfortable. I would certainly be uncomfortable going to a store in which the employees quote bible passages at me or any other passages from other religious tomes.....sorry, but there is a time and place for such things. Heck, an employer can make you wear appropriate clothing in order to make customers more comfortable in the presence (in some cases means making their employees wear clothing period!!) of the employees as well as make you behave in a certain manner........that's all part of business. If you don't want to deal with that then look for employment elsewhere. It's NOT about stifling religion it's about a time and place for certain things.

Right now the Christmas "debate" has been blown way out of proportion by some well known people in the media spotlight who have an agenda of their own (to garner that much more of the media attention for themselves and probably sell some books or such). No, there is not a war on Christmas.......it's just that the holiday is getting to be to big for it's pants (like I said before.......Christmas comes out before Halloween is even over anymore!!).and far too commercialized. If you truly want to celebrate the holiday for it's meaning then you wouldn't care that a store posted Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas and wouldn't be so worried about boycotting that store. Tho' I guess many may think that you can't celebrate CHRISTmas as a religious holiday without santa and bells.......geesh.

Heck, say Merry Christmas all you want.......I doubt that really anyone would be offended by it as it's not about offending other people......it's only about recognizing some of the other holidays this time of year that the commercialized version of Chrismas has squashed. Celebrate Christmas how ever you wish on your own time. Again, no one is stopping you. Using your religion TO offend however is not going to get you anywhere. It's only going to burn bridges for you as well as turn away people who might have in other circumstances shown interest in your belief system.



edited to replace missing words

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Ironically, in the schools today... our children are being taught to be tolerant of other lifestyles all the while they're removing any mention of God from our schools? But wait, I thought we're to be tolerant of others???...oh, with the exception of religion that's right! 

  If we can be tolerant of someone's lifestyle, why can't we go a step further and be tolerant of their religious beliefs too? Our beliefs are all a part of our lifestyle and makes us who we are.  This political correctness is ridiculous. It just seems silly if you ask me.


I'm not flaming anyone's beliefs.  As for me... all this political correctness is a bunch of bunk! How on earth did our ancestors survive with out it???? I'D SAY THEY DID VERY WELL!!! and were much happier polite and respectable people with integrity and moral character! That's pretty close to extinction anymore!

IJanine

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Ok well I have to disagree a bit I do understand your point however.. looking back at history it is clear it wasnt how did they survive it is simpley those who didnt do as a group wanted didnt survive being different or having different beliefs period.Many were killed in many different eras simply for being different.

I can agree with some feeling you should be allowed to say GOD in school however... if you are going to fight for that and say it should be allowed then so should other prayer to other gods even if you choose not to believe they exisit.

Quite frankly I dont see a society that is tolerant of others.. I see a society in general where many are still judged on the color of there skin some still abused or killed due to it. I see a society where sexuality of someone is judged and many are beaten up or killed simply cause they choose to love different then someone else. I see a society where people are openly rude and mean to those who are overweight any time spent on the playground will show you pretty quickly most of the kids are anything but tolerant which we all know.. starts at home.

While it has come a long way there is still a long way to go.

I have no problem with someone saying Merry Christmas, or putting up signs in a buisness window on a busy street that says Merry Christmas or anything else.. but I find it ironic that the same could not be said for hmm say Gay Pride day how many who want to proudly display Merry Christmas in buisnesses would be equally as passionate that there is the same right to put out on street fronts gay pride sayings? Or no that woudl then be corrupting our youth cause some dont beleive that is ok.. I am not putting this into a who believes what thing..

****I respect ANYONE who believes in ANYTHING that makes them a truly better person- one who is peaceful and confident in there own beliefs, can be passionate about them and yet still very accepting of others beliefs , no matter what religion you are and those that are of no religion but have strong spiritiual beliefs **

It matters none to me who or what you choose to pray to and believe in I feel that is such a personal thing and whatever gives you the strength to go on, be good, forgive yourself and others and live your life in a way you can feel comfortable looking in the mirror is a great thing

I am sorry to go a bit off on a tangent but... I have had friends who were beat up and hurt badly simply due to the color of there skin. I have had a dear friend who was brutally killed simply because he was gay so the whole tolerent thing just gets me going even though.. I realize where you were coming from and your point and I really do understand it and am not trying to make light of this issue to those who feel strongly about it. I guess for me.. there are still much bigger issues that all of us if we all put differences aside could really make a difference with.

If we all got this angry and pulled togther -as many as are willing to fight for the right to say Merry Christmas or God in school and as many as there are willing to oppose it..just imagine if we all got togther and put all that power into something else say keeping our kids safe, changing laws for petifiles, doing something to help the millions of sexually abused kids, Imagine all the good we could do if everyone put it aside and realized.. in the long run the majority of us no matter what race, religion or sexual oriantaion we could still stand togther then... we truly would be the most powerful country

Ok off my emotional soapbox

and to everyone . whatever you celebrate. I hope you enjoy the love of your family and friends and significant others this entire holiday season

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Um well you did miss the point but that's a whole nuther can of worms.

Were not talking only about religion but the holiday even as celebrated by those of no particular religious persuasion. Especially when other religions and cultures are free to express their symbols of their holidays and I am not? So yes there is a disparity between one group and others that is not fair or justified.

But it heartens me to know that there are more and more people who are going to fight back not only with their voices but with their dollars too. Even Walmart and other stores have heard the outrage and are now "allowing" Merry Christmas" and other such horrible things to be said by their employees, even store banners have been changed this season to mention those horrendous words and ya know, it's about dang time!

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Umm no triggy I didnt miss the point at all...

Quite frankly I dont see others signs of holidays posted all over street fronts and windows I am not seeing symbols of Kuwanza or any other holiday that comes this time of year.

I dont see at least not here in ID where there is every other holiday but Christmas displayed and personally I dont see how a happy holidays is considering other things we have going on in this world at this time.. something to lose sleep over.. off work you can tell anyone and everyone you want to Merry Christmas- answer your phone Merry Christmas. put it in lights on your house no one is taking that away from you

Being at work well bottom line is that is what work is..some jobs require dress codes, some jobs require no nailpolish of certain colors, no piercings showing no tattoos showing that is just part of working in a business that has many different types of clients

being at school well same thing kids cant have Halloween parties as that is offensive to some religions.. they call it a fall festival and get on with it

Maybe where you live it is different maybe where you live they have EVERY other holiday symbol proudly displayed and people are saying all kinds of other things for other holidays like Hi happy hanaukah or good kuwanza (or whatever the saying would be for that

) or enjoy soltice and have wiccan and jewish and kuwanza sayings everywhere and just wont allow ONLY Merry Christmas.. and yes for that I would agree that is an issue however like I said here in ID that sure isnt the case at all

for the record we say Merry Christmas simply for the HOliday and time of year and have been told by some CHristians that it is offensive for me to say that without believing the meaning behind it.. so i guess cant please everyone all the time right

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I admit to being a little bemused by this as we do not have the problem, BUT....Public Workers = workers in the Public Sector???

Excuse me but, does not the President serve the people??

There is a Christmas Tree in the White House right now, and carollers singing and people wishing one another "Happy Christmas"- are they not working in the Public Sector??

What is going on- it is only the people who can be ordered around who are affected by this rule??

Clarification please.

Oh, and Lisa......

 

[ForMyACDs]

Were not talking only about religion but the holiday even as celebrated by those of no particular religious persuasion.  Especially when other religions and cultures are free to express their symbols of their holidays and I am not?  So yes there is a disparity between one group and others that is not fair or justified. 
But it heartens me to know that there are more and more people who are going to fight back not only with their voices but with their dollars too.  Even Walmart and other stores have heard the outrage and are now "allowing" Merry Christmas" and other such horrible things to be said by their employees, even store banners have been changed this season to mention those horrendous words and ya know, it's about dang time!

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Wow......other religious persuasions are being allowed to display their symbols? Where? Can you name one instance? I would LOVE to see that!

Now YOU are not getting it. No where has anyone said that Merry Christmas was a horrible thing to say. The suggestions to use Happy Holidays were not to eliminate Christmas but instead to recognize the OTHER holidays this time of year (INCLUDING Thanksgiving and New Years).......it's NOT always about you and your beliefs.

Personally, I'm confident in my beliefs and don't need to hear it spoken by every minimum wage earning person I come in to contact with at the "supermart", nor do I need to see it plastered up for all to see. That to me is trivializing the belief. Be confident in your beliefs and you will find that it does more to further your point than being a whining sod in public.

Rabbitsfizz - of COURSE those at the top aren't affected.......THEY are the ones that make the rules for all their "employees" to follow (tho' most of them are not necessarily in the public eye). Anymore, I don't see Christmas trees and SantaClaus being indicators of a belief system as the Chrismas holiday (as I said before) has become a huge commercial, profit-mongering display of over-extravegance. But of course that's my opinion and I don't expect everyone (or anyone for that matter) to believe the way I do.

edited because I can't seem to *%@$ spell today

 

[runamuk]

I admit to being a little bemused by this as we do not have the problem, BUT....Public Workers = workers in the Public Sector???Excuse me but, does not the President serve the people??

There is a Christmas Tree in the White House right now, and carollers singing and people wishing one another "Happy Christmas"- are they not working in the Public Sector??

What is going on- it is only the people who can be ordered around who are affected by this rule??

Clarification please.

Oh, and Lisa......

 

 

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OH boy big can a worms there fizzy....do not mention the white house tree...yeeks.....HUMONGOUS stink over it being called a holiday tree for the last few years....I believe they are back to calling it a christmas tree but still I am not clear........personally I find the tree a bit pompous and a waste of a perfectly lovely tree.......too bad it has to be so dang big......

As for tolerence....I wish everyone would just live and let live.......here in Idaho it is a bit different as we have a huge christian base with a different church on nearly every corner (of course there seems to be a bar on every other corner

) Most businesses I have gone into have christmas trees and banners clearly stating merry christmas.........in fact even in my business we have recieved cards from clients that were very most definately religious in nature...and then others that are more general and several that say merry christmas........

not that anyone cares...the TREE is a pagan ritual plain and simple it has nothing at all to do with the birth of christ so why all the christians get in a big fat stink over what we call the tree is beyond me

of course there are alot of people who will argue about anything just because they can.......

The HOLLY is another pagan symbol ........

The yule log and lighting of the YULETIME fire...yep pagan.......

The one thing the christians did with aplomb was superimpose their beliefs over others and they would allow others to keep a few things in order to convert them....heck 1/2 the saints are converted pagan gods....................tangent yes.....but I am tired of religious zealots trying to tell me how many very pagan and very ancient traditions belong to the christians...they don't ........

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

on a totally side note as i was outside feeding I remembered a thread not to long ago about one of our younger members saying something about tattoos at work not being allowed and how many people (some of the same on this thread) stated hey at work you have to be correct it isnt about your own personal beliefs but about being professional and following your company- just something i was thinking about- which at least was a break from thinking about all the stupid ice i break daily and my now 4 ft high ice mountain at the back end of the barn...

 

[Shari]

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OH boy big can a worms there fizzy....do not mention the white house tree...yeeks.....HUMONGOUS stink over it being called a holiday tree for the last few years....I believe they are back to calling it a christmas tree but still I am not clear........personally I find the tree a bit pompous and a waste of a perfectly lovely tree.......too bad it has to be so dang big......

As for tolerence....I wish everyone would just live and let live.......here in Idaho it is a bit different as we have a huge christian base with a different church on nearly every corner (of course there seems to be a bar on every other corner

) Most businesses I have gone into have christmas trees and banners clearly stating merry christmas.........in fact even in my business we have recieved cards from clients that were very most definately religious in nature...and then others that are more general and several that say merry christmas........

not that anyone cares...the TREE is a pagan ritual plain and simple it has nothing at all to do with the birth of christ so why all the christians get in a big fat stink over what we call the tree is beyond me

of course there are alot of people who will argue about anything just because they can.......

The HOLLY is another pagan symbol ........

The yule log and lighting of the YULETIME fire...yep pagan.......

The one thing the christians did with aplomb was superimpose their beliefs over others and they would allow others to keep a few things in order to convert them....heck 1/2 the saints are converted pagan gods....................tangent yes.....but I am tired of religious zealots trying to tell me how many very pagan and very ancient traditions belong to the christians...they don't ........

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I am with you on this one,, thank you for saying what I have been wanting to.

Majority of traditions came from Pagans.

It was the only way the Christians could get some of them to convert.

All through my life people have done their own thing,,there was no problems.

When I was a kid people went to church or didn't. No one talked about it because it was a private thing.

Now it seems nothing is good enough for one group.

I really think we need to keep religion out of the government, schools and public buildings because no "one" religion is better than another. I have friends of all religions and I stay neutral.

Really think folks need to be respectful to others no matter their religion, color or creed and not force their views on others.

If someone wants to say Merry Christmas,, that is fine.. but I see many looking for problems...why?

It doesn't make one better to yell or be rude to people because they are different from you.

There is nothing wrong with Happy Holidays. Xmas and New Years are normally rolled together for cards.

Nothing wrong with Happy yule...etc..etc..

All I can say is repect others, show kindness and tolerance, this is supposed to be a Happy time of year no matter what religion one is and no matter what you believe or don't believe in.

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Yes the object of the game is to live and let live, that is unless you are unfortunate enough in this day and age to be a Christian, then it's a given you won't be afforded that same courtesy. An with that, I'll say no more on the subject.

However, in this time of supposed good will toward (wo)man I still do wish you all a very Merry ChrismasKwaanzaHannukahYuleSolticeRammadanOrWhatever and a Happy New Year but there is probably something wrong with that too.

And to Janine and others who are lucky enough to share in what she knows, I wish you a very Merry Christmas in its truest sense.

 

[runamuk]

Hey triggy...Merry Christmas......and Happy New Year.........

can I ask....do you attend services for christmas? I remember them being so beautiful (old lutheran church) I also remember having to sit forever being quiet......loved when we got to sing

and boy did we sing......

Yes the object of the game is to live and let live, that is unless you are unfortunate enough in this day and age to be a Christian, then it's a given you won't  be afforded that same courtesy.  An with that, I'll say no more on the subject. 
However, in this time of supposed good will toward (wo)man I still do wish you all a very Merry ChrismasKwaanzaHannukahYuleSolticeRammadanOrWhatever and a Happy New Year but there is probably something wrong with that too. 

 

And to Janine and others who are lucky enough to share in what she knows, I wish you a very Merry Christmas in its truest sense.

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[Sonya]

"Happy Holidays" offends the Jehovah Witness'...it won't be long before you are unable to even say that. JW's do not celebrate any holiday other than wedding Anniversaries. I work in a Govt building and we have a radio on. We are unable to play Christmas music because it may offend the one JW that works there. Well somepeople at work put on rap music and some of the lyrics offend me, but they don't make them turn that off. Just something to think about - it may not be long before "Happy Holidays" is gone too.

 

[Robin1]

"Happy Holidays" offends the Jehovah Witness'...it won't be long before you are unable to even say that. JW's do not celebrate any holiday other than wedding Anniversaries. I work in a Govt building and we have a radio on. We are unable to play Christmas music because it may offend the one JW that works there. Well somepeople at work put on rap music and some of the lyrics offend me, but they don't make them turn that off. Just something to think about - it may not be long before "Happy Holidays" is gone too.

Robin

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Happy Yule everybody - Winter Solstice is Tuesday/Wednesday after that the days start getting longer, and Spring willnot be far away.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

- Winter Solstice is Tuesday/Wednesday after that the days start getting longer, and Spring willnot be far away.

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Thank goodness for that YIPPEE

 

[Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too]

Hey triggy...Merry Christmas......and Happy New Year.........can I ask....do you attend services for christmas?  I remember them being so beautiful (old lutheran church) I also remember having to sit forever being quiet......loved when we got to sing

and boy did we sing......

We are not big on church attendance but we do tend to show up on most holidays and in support of family events. I'm one of those heathens who thinks Christ is within the person, not a building and frankly I have more than enough friends so I don't need a church as a social outlet. Although the Episcopals, my adopted church, have the least amount of hypocrisy I've encountered--being a religious organization that claims to be the most inclusive of all members of society and can usually stand behind the claim. That is certainly not something I've not found in other denominations.

As for singing, probably best if I don't

 

[C & C Farms]

I just got a chance to read this thread......that was great!!

 

[SILVER]

MERRY CHRISTMAS, Jesus is the Reason for the Season.

Barb