Voting Methods

[Tango]

After all the posts on the forum since the Annual Meeting, I think the bottom line issue is that folks would like the OPPORTUNITY to vote. Whether or not the opportunity is applied, at least it can be available.

I think having a discussion thread on the different ways and ideas of making the opportunity for everyone to happen is a good idea. I know lots of ways have already been talked about but if we concentrate them to one thread, maybe a viable working solution could come of it.

My suggestion:

I believe that ONLINE voting will work. For every person that becomes an AMHA member or renews their membership, a personal VOTING PIN number could be issued to them along with their membership cards for the year.

A. All issues that come up for vote at the Annual Meeting are printed in the MHW magazine or online prior to the meeting - with those issues, print a PRO and CON synopsis of each issue. (The Pros and Cons could be discussed by the directors and the committee members at the June meeting.)

B. Every region will have their own "voting day" online just prior to the meeting. (This would help to keep the website from bogging down.)

C. A "Voting Day" announcement could be made here on the forum to remind everyone in their region to vote that day.

I know that online voting could very well be done. AMHA already has a login system for the stud book. If each member had their own voting "pin" number, then that would help to elimate the concern of whether or not any voters were actually eligible to vote. The program could keep the tally. Each "pin" number could only be logged in to vote one time.

Nikki

 

[McBunz]

I for one would be willing to paid $20.00 for the right to vote on important issues.So if the directors had to tally the ballots this could go into their pockets for the extra work load. Or towards an on line voting system.

.How about the rest of you?

I know that the overseas people would like a vote from some of the email I am getting.

 

[Margo_C-T]

This is an excellent discussion topic, and I believe that Nikki's idea warrant serious consideration. I do think that there would need to be an accomodation for those who don't have internet to vote, also, though. I don't think it should cost members who truly WANT be be able to vote w/o having to take a several-day trip away from home(with attendant expenses), $20, but I would be very willing to pay something extra to cover add'n. expenses to the organization....further brainstorming, anyone?

Margo

 

[Mona]

I AGREE! WONDERFUL topic! We sure need this one too! Nikki, your ideas sound like they could be very "doable"!

 

[Tango]

Margo, You make an excellent point. Perhaps a "ballot" page could be printed in the MHW at the same time the proposal changes are printed. Those folks who do not have internet access could then use that ballot to mail in their vote but would need to include their personal "pin" number as well.

Nikki

 

[Buckskin gal]

I commend those of you who are serious about your desire for change. I would hope before you put a whole lot of time into this to make sure the majority of the members are in favor of these changes. Perhaps a poll could be taken to see how many members will take the time to study issues and be well informed before voting, if such a thing gets passed. My concern is that many may say they want to vote but still not use the previledge because they won't have the time to check into the matters of concern to be voted on. Has any one checked into the bylaws and such, to see if it is possible to make these changes and if so just what all will have to be done. A very good support group would be very benefical...thes are only suggestions and not telling anyone what they sould do. I know I am not up to anymore increases in costs to do business with either registry....looks very much like this country could be in a recession and it will hurt many of us on fixed incomes. Mary

 

[Suzie]

Sorry this is so long...........

I have read all the discussions on all the threads I can and I have not seen this idea touched upon, so I will throw it out there.

I equate the By-Laws of an organization to the Articles of the Constitution of the US. The founding fathers throught this so important to the country so as not leave these important decisions to a sacred few, rather submit to the entire country. They did this by using ratification of an amendment.

We could use the same idea here. In the case of a change to a by-law, you could use the same procedure we have in place. Only take it one step further. Once a by-law has been passed by 2/3 of Present voting members, you could set a 90 day- pros and cons committee and have them research the ramifications. This could then be posted on the website and have them download a voting form from online or by mail for a fee of $5.

I think this would address a couple of the concerns I see voiced so far.

The membership would not be be voting on every proposal that comes up, just the ones that affect by-laws.

The membership would have an informed viewpoint (pros and cons) and ramifications.

I am assuming that $5 would cover the cost of postage and counting, if $10 is more appropriate, so be it.

If the passed proposal is ratified by 2/3 of the voting membership, it should be implemented the next year. If it fails, it fails.

I know a paper ballot would be expensive to tally but we are talking about an association of roughly 12,000+ members with an annual budget of $2.5 million here. This is not a local horse club anymore. If we can't afford to service the membership with a viable option to voice their concerns, it probably needs to rethink its purpose. I certainly would hate to think this amount of money is basically in the controlling hands of only 90 to 100 people who can afford to show up in person at the yearly convention. Now that is scary to me.

 

[sfmini]

I am so glad to see some constructive conversation going on in this group.

Please bear in mind that the majority of AMHA members do not read this forum. Sorry, but we who do are in the minority.

Any change needs to accomodate those members who do not have internet access. Some are older and just plain resistant to computers and would not go somewhere to use one to vote.

Some do not receve the MHW.

One problem with the lifetime members is we do not know who is active any more, or even still living, or if the addresses we have on file are current. We do, of course know of some of them, but a large number are in question. It could be a pretty sensitive thing to contact a widow or widower asking for a deceased individual so any contacts would have to be very sensitive to that..... Can't use show records, not everybody shows.

Remember the list that Ronnie posted on another post, you must be able to address all of those issues to get something like this to pass.

Good luck.

 

[McBunz]

I am so glad to see some constructive conversation going on in this group.

Please bear in mind that the majority of AMHA members do not read this forum. Sorry, but we who do are in the minority.

Any change needs to accomodate those members who do not have internet access. Some are older and just plain resistant to computers and would not go somewhere to use one to vote.

Some do not receve the MHW.

One problem with the lifetime members is we do not know who is active any more, or even still living, or if the addresses we have on file are current. We do, of course know of some of them, but a large number are in question. It could be a pretty sensitive thing to contact a widow or widower asking for a deceased individual so any contacts would have to be very sensitive to that..... Can't use show records, not everybody shows.

Remember the list that Ronnie posted on another post, you must be able to address all of those issues to get something like this to pass.

Good luck.

I am sorry but who addressed all the issues of this rule change. Certainly not the 100 or so that voted it into

place. It has more loose ends than a shedding horse with loose hairs...

 

[Marty]

online voting or telephone

With online voting, somehow a password for each person would have to be set up so that each person only would get to vote once. The password could be their membership # or something

Phone in your vote could use the same principal with a automatic menu where you would enter your ID number and then press 1 for this and press 2 for that

 

[Katiean]

I for one do not understand why some are suggesting having to PAY ($5-$20) to have the right to vote. Some of us are on fixed incomes and don't have the extra $5 to be able to vote. Therefore not having the funds to attend the meeting. If we pay our dues we should be allowed to vote. I do agree with the "PIN" number to prevent some from voting more then once. I don't think an electronic vote should require a voting fee. The membership application asks for an email address. If one is provided then they should be required to vote electronicly and if they don't provide an email address then they would be send a paper ballot. That way everyone would have the chance to vote.

 

[RockRiverTiff]

Hi Tango! I also started a thread about AMHA's voting method and making a change, and in that thread posted hypothetical methods. You can read it here: http://www.miniaturehorsetalk.com/index.php?showtopic=90759 To the best of my knowledge, there is a group working on a proposal for mail voting, and BeckyG and I are working on a proposal for internet voting. I don't at all see us as being in opposition--I think any change in this case would be a good change, and that both methods have their strengths and weaknesses. We are doing a lot of research, and are making plans on how to survey more of the membership to gauge their concerns and needs (as Jody said, LB only represents a fraction of the membership). If you have any ideas or suggestions or would like to join up, we could sure use the help!

 

[Tango]

Oops! OH! Sorry, Tiffany. I didn't mean to double up a thread. Lots of good ideas coming through, though.

Jody is right, there is only a fraction of the membership here on the forum.

What about this one -

Mail is probably the surest way to reach the Majority of the membership. To avoid the costs of a separate mailing campaign for balloting, again, why can't a ballot be included in the MHW at the same time the proposals are printed? Each member who recieves the MHW magazine, (and I know that all members don't receive them, may have to look into that too,) would vote on the ballot using their unique "pin" number, mail them in paying their own postage, and then, after the ballots are received at the office, ( and I am sure this is really far fetched) why couldn't the ballots be counted electronically like the ballots are for our own governmental elections?

Nikki

 

[sdmini]

I am assuming that $5 would cover the cost of postage and counting, if $10 is more appropriate, so be it.

Here in lies the problem, the fee for sending out the ballots and counting them is the same whether or not all 12,000 people send in $5 or $10 or if 1 person sends in their $5 or $10. Rough estimate on ballots alone based on the previous thread is roughly $1 a piece, not quite but close. Twenty four hundred people or about 20% need to vote to cover the cost of the mailers alone. I would bet that to hire an outside party you are looking at, at least the same as cost for mailers, which is another 20% needed at $5.

I'll be honest I don't have a lot of faith that 40% of the members are going to pay even five dollars to vote. What ever the income doesn't cover for expenses it then needs to come out of the general fund.

I think that for a voting procedure to stand a snowball's chance of passing you need to have all of the answers not just the what and why but to the how much question as well as where the money to fund it will come from.

Who's going to vote this in....the members that attend the meeting so unless you are looking to give them a reason to table it till more research can be done have your ducks in a row.

 

[HGFarm]

Please check Roberts Rules of Order. They have explicit instructions on voting by mail and it is quite simple actually. Our club uses it. It is different than voting by proxy, which is not allowed.

 

[Margo_C-T]

Something I don't recall being pointed out here is that in the Directors' elections, returned ballots are sent to an accounting firm for counting/tabulation, and NOT to the AMHA office. I do think they are SENT OUT by the AMHA office, however. I have no idea what it costs AMHA for the ballot-counting, or whether it is 'by the response received' or not...anyone?

I think we need to remember a couple of things....first, that under any circumstances, participation in voting is likely to be by only a relatively small percentage of the numbers of members 'on the books'...1,200 out of the approx. 12,000 members would probably be an OUTSTANDING 'turnout', I'd imagine! Even so, isn't that VASTLY better than the 60 or so who by their votes at the convention, changed the measurement site????(2/3 of the 90+ in attendance) We can only do the best we can--there is no such thing as 'perfect', but there IS the BEST EFFORT! IMO, a "BEST EFFORT" would include: using the new and improved computer system, to coordinate lists to show: members who subscribe to the MHW, members who do not, but who have submitted an email address, members who actually are entitled to vote(only 'Regular' and 'Lifetime' members in good standing are entitled to vote in 'matters governed by a vote of the members'('08, Bylaws, Art. IV, Sect. 1),and finally, members whose only contact info is a USPS address. This should yield a list of those who can only be contacted via postal mailing. ALL information on proposals that would require a BYLAW change, at least, should be put into: the MHW, in a TIMELY manner(at least two issues ahead-i.e., for a April or May deadline of any sort, info should be in the DEC.(Dec/Jan) issue! Then, email to all qualified members with an email address on file, and, HEADLINE on the AMHA website at LEAST, say, 60 days ahead of any 'deadline', and STAY THERE for the duration(and BTW, such information placed on the Website should be 'archived' or placed on discs or some such(I am NOT a computer expert, but am SURE this must be possible), as PROOF that it WAS in place, when and where it was 'said' to be; to me, a big drawback of relying completely on an internet site for information is that it can 'vanish' from there, and where is the 'proof', for the average person, at least, that it was EVER even there, and if so, WHEN?)Finally, such vital proposals should be postal mailed to the most recent address for those with that as the only contact info--perhaps w/ 'return requested' or some such to help in finding out if the address is indeed valid. Ballots in the MHW, and online voting, with controls(some great ideas proposed already, IMO!)....PIN or other identifying numbers WOULD need to be checked; should be relatively straightforward w/ online voting, need to work out cost and procedures for mail-in, but I have no doubt there are people on here who could help in that!

As for not knowing whether Lifetime members are still alive and kicking? Well, HERE's one who is--and I personally know of several in my area who are a long way from expiration! As to contacting a member who turns out to have died? That happens all the time, because how the HECK is a distant entity that you don't 'stay in touch with' to know what has occurred? My husband died 10 1/2 years ago, but communications still occasionally arrive addressed to him-as from his old ag college organizations! It doesn't upset ME--and I could sit down and drop them a note if it really bothered me to receive mail 'for'him--so I don't see that as an issue.

I need to quit typing and take a break; it's about all I've done for days, and I need to trim some horses' feet! (10" of snow several days ago has made it muddy, and that's a plus for hoof trimming!)

Just brainstorming...some REALLY good thoughts/ideas emerging here; let's just KEEP IT GOING!

Margo

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

Please bear in mind that the majority of AMHA members do not read this forum. Sorry, but we who do are in the minority.

Any change needs to accomodate those members who do not have internet access. Some are older and just plain resistant to computers and would not go somewhere to use one to vote.

Some do not receve the MHW.

Surely anyone who is genuinely concerned about breeding/showing does receive SOME form of information, whether it be by this Forum, the MHW or even a friend who might say "hey, didja hear..." I can't imagine anyone who breeds/shows not keeping informed in some way. Those who don't keep up probably don't care how/where we measure, etc. And wouldn't vote anyways.

I REALLY like Nikki's suggestions. VERY well thought out.

Lucy

 

[McBunz]

I have invited all oversea clubs to to read and join LB.. I feel they would like a little input as to what

happens with this debate as well..

 

[Freezin Cold B]

I have MANY problems with people voting who are not at the meeting.

First, how do we ensure that the person voting IS an adult or AMHA member. I know that as a youth member I had access to all our Miniature Horse files, I wouldn't have voted in my mom's place but...I bet there people who would. Or what about multiple AMHA member households. Again, my mom and me both have access to each others information. We don't always agree on rule changes. Who's to say that I wouldn't vote in her place without her knowledge.

Second, what about deployed military members? I'm sure there are some who would love to vote but, if you are in the middle of Iraq your first thought isn't going to be "oh the AMHA Convention is going on!" Why should they be excluded. Should we wait to vote until all our members are in the position that they can vote?

Third, what about inactive AMHA members? There are plenty of people who are members of AMHA that are no longer/never were active in Miniature Horses. One example is my cousin, she showed with us when we were both around 10-12. That was OVER 10 years AGO!! She is still an AMHA member because my mom ensures most of my family is, just incase they want to show ammy one day. Knowing my cousin I would bet she would vote on something she had no knowledge of. She's a know it all med student who would assume she could vote better than any of us active members.

Fourth, computer/mail problems. If we have problems with the post office and some members don't get their ballots, will we have to recount? What about the computer? What if 1/2 of California has a blackout and people can't get online?

Do you want me to go on because I've got more?

BTW. I usually go to AMHA Conventions to vote. I've missed school many times to drive across the country to ensure that my voice is heard.

 

[Songcatcher]

I have MANY problems with people voting who are not at the meeting.

First, how do we ensure that the person voting IS an adult or AMHA member. I know that as a youth member I had access to all our Miniature Horse files, I wouldn't have voted in my mom's place but...I bet there people who would. Or what about multiple AMHA member households. Again, my mom and me both have access to each others information. We don't always agree on rule changes. Who's to say that I wouldn't vote in her place without her knowledge.

Second, what about deployed military members? I'm sure there are some who would love to vote but, if you are in the middle of Iraq your first thought isn't going to be "oh the AMHA Convention is going on!" Why should they be excluded. Should we wait to vote until all our members are in the position that they can vote?

Third, what about inactive AMHA members? There are plenty of people who are members of AMHA that are no longer/never were active in Miniature Horses. One example is my cousin, she showed with us when we were both around 10-12. That was OVER 10 years AGO!! She is still an AMHA member because my mom ensures most of my family is, just incase they want to show ammy one day. Knowing my cousin I would bet she would vote on something she had no knowledge of. She's a know it all med student who would assume she could vote better than any of us active members.

Fourth, computer/mail problems. If we have problems with the post office and some members don't get their ballots, will we have to recount? What about the computer? What if 1/2 of California has a blackout and people can't get online?

Do you want me to go on because I've got more?

BTW. I usually go to AMHA Conventions to vote. I've missed school many times to drive across the country to ensure that my voice is heard.

The arguements you use could apply equally well to a U.S. Presidential election, but we don't make people travel across the country to attend a convention to vote for President.