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heart k ranch

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This mare is not a mini but a APHA. She started looking bad around may so I took her to the vets. They said she might have ulcers. So I treated her for ulcers. She got wormed extra! Then she got BAD rain rot, and loss OVER 200 pounds.
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. Then I started to keep her up in a run and her legs got big. She eats normally so I thought maybe something was going on inside.

I got the teeth, bladder, and everything me and the vet could think of, Then we did blood work. They found out somethings wrong with her liver! The vet said to go ahead and put her down!

I was keeping her fed and she runs around like nothing is going on. Well Then we had a BIG turn around in August! She gained back most of her weight, I went back in the vets and they said she looked really good!

Well a couple of day later she got strangles! She was vacc. for it but she still got it! I kept her away from everybody and she loss all the weight she had put back on and then got the rain rot back! This has been going on for about 6 months. I'm so worried about her.

What can I do now! Try again and keep going or put her down so she doesn't have to fight anymore.

She acts like a young horse, She loves playing with the basketball! She is always the first to finished all her food.

Sorry I'm having LOTS of problems lately
 
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If the mare is happy and still has the will to fight I would not put her down. If she were down then it would be a different story. A downed horse is almost impossible to take care of for any length of time. A barn we were boarding at got Strangles and one thing we found was that the horses on the sun side of the barn for the most part didn't get strangles and if they did it was less sevear. Maybe try a sunny location for her.
 
What and how much are you feeding her? If she gained the weight back once, she could again. Have you had her liver rechecked since all this? I would not put her down yet either, if she is still up and moving and eating well.
 
A friend of mine had a small dog with similar issues. It was determined to be an autoimmune problem and my friend put him on a supplement called Missing Link. They were going to put the dog down, as well, as his skin problem had gotten out of control and he was being eaten away by it.

You would never know it now, this dog is 2 years old and full of life.

I would run it past my vet, but perhaps some evaluation could be done as to what is actually wrong with the liver, I know there may be more than one thing that affects it (such as toxins and possibly disease) and what are THEIR prognoses?

I would not be happy with a generic "put her down" when I had heard such a general description as "something wrong with the liver." Myself, I would want more definitive answers before I made such a decision, especially in light of the fact that your mare appears to have quite a bit of life in her at this point.

Good luck...best wishes and please keep us posted.

Liz
 
Well I called them Monday and said that if I wanted to spend more money then I would need to put her down. I said "heck I have 1000 dollar of vet bill I just paid, why would I stop now!" they said find another vet because this mare will keep having these problems and can't help me anymore!
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. I was shocked!!! They basically turned down helping my mare!

I need to know what homemade items can help the rain rot! Because its SO GROSS!!!

I was feeding equine senior, with oats, bailey, watered down beet pulb, corn oil, weight builder, muscle up, with a pack of jello for the sugar and the taste! The hay I use is organic costal, with two handfuls of alfafa(sp)! I fed her 3 times daily going home on my lunch break.

I haven't re-checked her liveer just because I was thinking the reason why her liver was bad was because of all that quick weight loss.

I might look up that stuff- thanks nootka

This is the only picture I really have of her but she the paint far in the back!

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I feel very sorry for the way you have been mistreated by the vet.

I have to question your vet's lack of enthusiam and integrity. This is so ridiculous. You need another vet and pronto and at the moment, I would by pass any home made remedies and get down to the real problems at hand.

I would take her to your university and get some real equine vets on the case.

This horse has way too much stuff going on for you to try and handle by yourself without a GREAT vet on the case

As far as rain rot, that is a bacterial infection and there are lots of things on the market to treat that with. And it probably keeps reoccuring because she is probably kept in damp or wet conditions. You can't control the weather but you can make good efforts to keep her dry so try that. All the medications in the world will not help her if she is not kept up dry. Some horses are more pre-disposed to this than others and your horse just happens to be one of those. I know it's not fun or easy but that's the way some of these things are.

For the rest of it, get the horse to a really good equine hospital asap.

Good luck and best wishes in hopes for a complete and speedy recovery.
 
I don't know what most of those feeds or supplements are, but do your research on them, and make sure she's not getting too much of something due to the combination (nutritional imbalances particularly on a supplement, I would imagine, could cause a problem with organs).

I'm rather disgusted with your vet's attitude and would set about finding new one(s) as soon as possible.

In the meantime, treating the rain rot, while a bit of a headache, is fairly simple:

Clean her well with an antibacterial soap or agent. What I understand is that rain rot is a bacteria that behaves like a fungus. It thrives on wet. I use a diluted betadine soap and that works great. Next order of business is to get her dry and keep her dry.

Those grooma rubber curries work great to groom her with as they shouldn't hurt her tender skin, but will pick up the loose hair and root crusty stuff, which will in turn get oxygen into the roots and kill the bacteria.

Don't blanket her as that will keep it moist and lay the hair flat, furthering the damage (moisture is the enemy).

Sometimes it helps to clip them to get rid of it all, but I would avoid that as it is Winter, now.

If you have a vac n blo, those seem to eliminate the problem almost overnight, but only in mild cases. I have not had a case of rain rot since I learned how to keep it at bay, and stall my horses when it rains for too long a period of time. Horses with other issues (like your mare) can end up with a worse problem because their immune system suffers (this is what I have read, and heard from vets).

You can treat the rain rot, but I suspect as long as she's got the other problem, she may just be more susceptible.

Good luck in treating her....this is the easiest, cheapest way I've found to get rid of rain rot, and it works. We get nearly 150" of rain per year, here, and on my horses with white backs, it was always the worst.

Liz
 
If I were you I would give the staff at Platinum Performance a try . . . perhaps they can help. Their toll free number is 800-553-2400.

Their website is www.platinumperformance.com

I wish you the best, as I know how hard it is when the animal has so much heart and will to survive.

Best,

Lee
 
Ok I called a couple of people and they told me to take her to the equine center about 45 minutes from here. The other was to take her to ATM BUT thats 3-4 hours away and they said she might not make it driving that far!

So tomorrow I'm taking off work and take her to the vet. I'm going to do ALL the work I can and hopefully help her!

As for the rain rot I can fix that at the very least!
 
Good luck at the equine centre tomorrow, hope they can help your mare, she has so much heart it would be a darn shame if they couldn't. Sending good thoughts for a speedy recovery.

Yvonne
 
I'm going right now because a lady canceled her appointment so I'm taking it, its at 3 o'clock..

See ya'll tomorrow and pray for her. She's going to need it!

Did I mention I love were I work!
 
Good luck Heart K- let us know what they say!!!! Sending prayers her way!
 
OK they have had her for about 30 minutes! I'm on my phone but hey what works.

Night traveled really well over here. The vets looked at her and asked what happened.

I told them about my vets and they called to find out everything, BUT they are going to run some tests for themselves!

They said they rain rot was VERY bad, and she is VERY skinny! They said hopefully she'll make it but they guessed she should be around 900 pounds and she is at 600 pounds
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. I feel right now THE WORST horse owner in the world. They asked if any other of my animals were that bad and I said no the rest are fat. I won't be surprised if they call animal control on me!

They said that since she is almost all white that it might also be sunburn with rain rot.

I'm going to get the test back when they are though running.
 
Good luck and please update us. You cannot be the worst horse owner in the world because those dont't bother ever with vets and they certainly have no remorse (IME).

Liz
 
Im thinking good thoughts for her!! I think the vets are just being very careful. Years ago we had a very thin horse get sick with strangles. it was horrible and he was so thin. but he made it and did fine. we put him on bodybuilder to regain his weight and within just 2 months he looked fabulous. You can buy body builder at jeffers online. Its pricey but well worth it
 
Awww Heart K my thoughts and prayers are with you and your mare. How sad. I can't believe your original vet was that rude and inconsiderate. Darn people these days. And like someone has already mentioned you arent a horrible horse owner because if you were you wouldn't have even tried having her treated..Keep us posted though
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I am thinking of you and your horse tonight. Please don't think you are the worst horse owner, I think YOU ARE ONE OF THE BEST HORSE OWNERS!!!!! You are going the extra mile to help her!!!!! Someone mentioned "missing link" that product does come for horses as well as dogs, etc. As Marty said the rainrot you can deal with. On another forum someone swears by the inexpensive product called Microtec by Eqyss. Perhaps a waterproof blanket when your horse goes out would help once the rainrot is under control. The rainrot more than likely re-occured because your horses immune system is way down.

Since you mentioned that your previous vet mentioned the liver please read below

By giving a boost to the overall immune system with a good herbal supplement. Herbs have long been known for their ability to positively effect the digestion, lymph processes, cardiac function and energy-building of the body. Some herbs are natural fungicides or have antibiotic properties that assist the body in fighting off infection. Some herbs help the kidneys or liver process waste faster, hastening healing after stress or injury.
Many of Europe's finest horse trainers have recognized that a product that provides overall immune system building can help horses in breeding, racing, eventing and recovering from injury or stress. They use a product called Immunall, which contains seven herbs known for their immune boosting properties. Immunall gives horses support for kidneys, liver and digestion. Immunall also acts as a preventive measure, as it contains anti-fungal and anti-bacterial ingredients. Healing is facilitated as well, and some trainers comment on how quickly their horses recover from races when they're on a regime including Immunall.
 
Any poisonous plants in the field where they graze?

Liver damage in horses
Organ acts as a filter to remove poisons. The liver may be the most important single organ involved in maintaining the body. It is the storehouse for many things, including glycogen (a form of sugar), certain enzymes and proteins, copper, iron, and vitamin A.

The liver also helps regulate blood volume. Some of its other functions are destruction of old red blood cells, manufacture of certain blood-clotting factors and blood proteins, and metabolism of proteins, carbohydrates, and fats. The liver is also the primary filtering system for the bodyworking as a specialized detoxification unit to remove the poisonous effects of foreign substances in the bloodbacterial toxins, poisons that enter the bloodstream from the digestive tract, and others.

When blood reaches the liver from the small intestine, its carbohydrate content is adjusted as needed, either by removal of excess sugars (converting them to glycogen to be stored) or by the addition of sugar through breakdown of previously stored glycogen.

Any toxic substances carried by the blood are detoxified by special cells that ingest and destroy them, or are removed from the blood and stored. Partially broken down red blood cells arrive from the spleen at the rate of about 3-million per second and are picked up by special cells that break them down further. The breakdown products are either recycled or excreted through bile. The liver also synthesizes ureaa waste product that is subsequently excreted by the kidneys as one of the components of urine.

The liver is a very large organ, and the body can continue to function even with some of it damaged or destroyedas long as there is still enough healthy tissue to filter out wastes and poisons. About three-quarters of it must be rendered inactive before clinical signs of liver impairment are obvious.

The livers great reserve capacity and its ability to regenerate itself usually prevent serious trouble. Some types of damage or disease, however, can overwhelm the liver and cause death.

Horses with chronic liver failure seldom live more than six months regardless of treatment. Horses with acute liver damage have only a slightly better chance of recovery if prompt treatment and supportive therapy can be givento get the animal through the danger period of acute liver insufficiencyin hopes that the liver will be able to regenerate itself enough to restore its function. Death may still occur due to very low blood sugar; the blood glucose level must be maintained by oral or intravenous injections of glucose.

Primary disease of the liver is rare in horses except as a result of poisonings, such as eating toxic plants or ingesting toxic chemicals. Secondary disease of the liver is more common and usually is due to a generalized disease process in the body or the spread of infection from another organ.

The liver is one of the bodys main defenses; one of its major functions is detoxification of harmful substances in the blood. The liver can modify almost any chemical, breaking down toxic moleculesmaking them harmless. But, sometimes in the process of protecting the body by filtering out poisons, the liver itself becomes damaged or infected.

Signs of liver damage

The first sign of acute toxic hepatitis (inflammation of the liver) is dullnesslethargy and lack of appetite. Pulse, respiration, and temperature are usually normal, but the horse may have abdominal pain due to rapid swelling of the liver, and the problem may be mistaken for colic. Sometimes there are blood pigments in urine.

Jaundice (yellow color of the skin and mucous membranes such as gums and whites of the eyes) is a common sign of liver disease and results from an accumulation of bile pigment, especially from the breakdown products of old red blood cells. These products are not cleared from the body when the liver is not functioning properly or its bile ducts are obstructed, and the pigments tend to accumulate in the skin and other tissues. Jaundice can also be caused by other problems in which there is no liver involvement, so jaundice alone is not a sure sign of liver problems.

Toxic substances normally processed by the liver build up in the bloodstream and affect the nervous system. The horse may be dull (standing with head drooping and feet wide apart) or overly excited; he also may exhibit weakness or muscle tremors, staggering or dragging his feet. His mental condition rapidly deteriorates and he may behave strangely, such as not responding to signals, pressing his head against a wall or fence, or walking into obstacles. Convulsions followed by a coma may occur.

One of the most common effects of severe and acute liver damage is a sharp drop in blood sugar, accompanied by nervous signs and hyperexcitability. For instance, the horse may become violent or unmanageable, running wildly and crashing into fences. If damage is occurring more slowly, the low blood sugar is less dramatic; the horse shows milder symptoms such as drowsiness, inability to work, yawning, and lethargy.

When the liver loses its detoxifying ability, ammonia and other toxic byproducts of protein breakdown are not filtered out of the blood and have an adverse affect upon the brain.

Muscle wasting can be another sign of liver damage. Failure of the liver to process amino acids and protein results in tissue wasting and a drop in plasma protein. This is sometimes severe enough to cause edema (fluid seeping out of the blood vessels and into the tissues to create enlargement and swellings). Diarrhea or constipation may also occur with certain types of liver disease.

Photosensitization in horses (in which unpigmented areas of skin are affected by sunlight, with skin cells dying and patches of skin sloughing off due to photodynamic agents brought to the skin from the digestive tract via the bloodstream) is often a sign of liver damage.

Poor blood-clotting ability can be a result of severe liver disease due to deficiency in prothrombin formation.

Diseases of the liver

The term hepatitis is usually used in referring to liver inflammation, injury, or degeneration. Toxic (noninfectious) hepatitis may be due to toxins being carried to the liver, such as through an infection from somewhere else in the body. Toxic hepatitis can also be caused by inorganic poisons such as copper, mercury, arsenic, or excessive amounts of phosphorus from polluted water containing industrial wastes, phosphorus fertilizers, or rat poison.

Dioxin, an ingredient in waste oil that was sometimes used in the 1970s to keep dust under control in riding arenas, was also suspected of causing acute hepatitis. Organic poisons such as carbon tetrachloride and coal tar pitch also can damage the liver. Iron supplements contained in probiotics marketed as a digestive innoculant for newborn foals were a cause of severe liver damage.

Poisonous plants that can cause toxic hepatitis are weeds (including various groundsels, Crotalaria, Heliotropium, fiddleneck, tarweed, fire weed, yellow burr weed, buckthorn, tansy ragwort, rattle weed, wild pea, or puncturevine); pasture plants such as alsike clover and water-damaged alfalfa hay; a few trees and shrubs; and several types of fungi and algae.

Aflatoxin, a fungal toxin that can contaminate corn, peanut meal, and other feeds, can cause acute or chronic hepatitis. Castor beans, often grown as an ornamental plant, are poisonous if eaten by horses. Several legumes can be toxic under certain conditions, including lupines, vetches, and velvet beans.

Most of these are not very palatable, and horses only eat them if feed is in short supply or when seeds get mixed in with grain or hay.

The horse eating these feeds may not get enough of the poison plants to cause acute hepatitis, but if he eats contaminated feed over a long period of time he may develop chronic liver damage. In certain geographic regions, toxic hepatitis from eating poisonous plants and contaminated feed is the most common cause of liver failure.

Moderate degrees of hepatitis can occur with many types of bacterial infections within the body. Liver injury can also be caused by extensive tissue damage elsewhere in the body, as in the case of severe burns, wounds, or tissue death due to obstruction of circulation. The body has to get rid of the toxic products of tissue degeneration, and the liver can be adversely affected.

Infectious hepatitis

Infectious hepatitis is rare in horses, but some types of infection can create liver lesions. One of them is Tyzzers disease in foals, which occurs in foals 1-to-5 weeks old and is characterized by high fever, shock, terminal coma, and death within a few hours. Others are the virus that causes rhinopneumonitis, and severe cases of equine viral arteritis (EVA).

Some diseases do not produce signs of liver damage during the life of the horse, but liver lesions are evident at necropsy. These diseases include salmonellosis, septicemic listeriosis, leptospirosis, and EIA (equine infectious anemia).

Chronic hepatitis can be mistaken for moldy corn poisoning, infectious anemia, or equine encephalomyelitis, since some of the signs are similarunless jaundice or photosensitization is present to give a clue as to liver involvement. Toxic hepatitis can be acute or chronic. Sometimes horses with an acute case will partially recover and develop a chronic liver disorder.

Acute hepatitis appears suddenly and chances of survival are poor. Between 50%-to-90% of horses with acute hepatitis die within 12-to-48 hours. Of those that survive, recovery begins in 4-to-5 days and the damaged liver regains most of its function.

Chronic hepatitis appears more slowly and may not be noticed until symptoms worsen. A chronic liver condition may sometimes be caused by certain toxins or poisons in small doses. If a horse is continually subjected to a poison, the liver may eventually become fibrous (cirrhosis) and lose its ability to function.

Local infections in the liver itself generally do not cause signs of liver dysfunction unless the lesions are quite large or spreading. Occasionally a liver abscess may occur, as in cases of strangles that form internal abscesses. Inflammation of bile ducts can also occur, causing fever, pain over the liver, jaundice, and photosensitization. The liver also may be damaged by migrating parasites that obstruct the bile ducts, causing intermittent colic or continuous pain, and sometimes jaundice.

In rare instances, a foal may be born with a congenital liver abnormality such as absence of bile-duct components or a duct closure. The foal seems normal for the first 2-to-3 weeks but then becomes listless and stops nursing. Feces become gray and pasty, the foal becomes jaundiced, and death occurs about a week later.

Hepatitis is a life-threatening disease with very little effective treatment available. Preventive measures probably are the best treatmentsuch as being careful with chemicals, using feed supplements and medications wisely, and feeding horses well so they will not be tempted by toxic plants.
 
If you were a bad owner you would be in your field standing over a dead horse saying, HMMMM, wonder what happened? Your a good owner and you'll have the vet bills to prove it!

It can be discouraging, monetarily, physically, and mentally draining. I feel for you, had a situation with a big horse and $5000 in vet bills in 6 months.

Nothing like having your entire family in church on Christmas eve praying for poop while I was at home tending to the mare.

Hang in there, it does get better.

Carolyn
 
Morning!

The vet did say that she does have a (JJDLUREN-sorry can't say it)

Which is she is not digesting what shes eats. So basically its going right though her. I am on strick orders ONLY senior feed and hay supplements.

The strangles they said they can't do anything about BUT if I would have got there before it popped they would have been able to do something. They also said at the other vet clinic that they most likley didn't clean up that well before I got there. They said to beach the trailer, stall, buckets,etc. Don't let her come in contact with anyone. I can't wear the same shoes, clothes, (but I knew this but not to this extreme)...

Rain rot they told me what ya'll told me, but they also said it didn't help becase she is over 90% white.

But I have to feed her as many times I can a day!

there are no poisonous plants were I live. We had horses there before I was even born, and we spray and plants grass seeds before every winter!
 
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