Two important questions

[YHFF Miniature Horses]

Hi,

Tommorrow 2 of my "boys" are getting gelded, neither of which has ever been used for breeding. One is almost 2 and the other is 4. My question is, "When can they be put with my herd of mares? What type of behavior should I expect from them? Most of my mares are bred and they will probably kick the snot out of them if they try to jump on them or anything. I also have some yearling fillys in with my group of mares, should they be kept away from the geldings? I have only ever had one gelding before now (As in before I had any minis) and he was never with any other horses while he was here (which was why I sold him to a place with lots of other gelding his size), so I really have no experience with the behavior of these guys. Until now the boys have each had their own pasture and pen all to themselves, although they do share a fence line I worry that they get lonely and I have no need for 4 stallions, so...tommorrow i will only have 2. Any advice is appreciated. Even if they can't be with the girls for a while, I will be putting those 2 together for more companionship.

Also I have been asked to breed 2 outside mares. I told the people to keep looking, as I am inexperienced with this, and if they are still interested or can't find any mini stallions to contact me again in the spring. As of tommorrow I will only have two stallions (the only two that I use for breeding anyways) and I need some advice. I'm really not sure I want to be open to outside mares as I will need to use my stallions for my own mares at that time. Both of my boys are double reg. A & R. One is a 33.75" blue roan pinto and the other is a 28.5" black and white pinto. They have great conformation, bites, pedigrees (or else they wouldn't be my main herd sires), but no show record. One has produced a foal this past year and both have mares bred for this spring. How much do you think I should charge for mare care, etc. and what would you include in a contract? Once again, I have not decided if I want to host outside mares or not, and I still have to see if these mares are suitable for my boys. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Courtney

Oh, one last question, when I send their papers in to say they've been gelded do I need my vet to sign anything? Thanks

 

[Ashley]

Minumum of 6 weeks. THen it depends how they act.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

There is NO way I would put geldings in with bred mares. Especially newly gelded colts. Never going to happen at my place!! So the mares kick the snot out of them....and abort whilst they are doing it- after all, the geldings are not going to stand there and let them!!!

You have also to think about the disruption to the herd when you introduce two completely new males into it, and the fact that the geldings will not have lost their instincts so there is every chance they will fight over the mares and then have a go at the mares to boot.

For the record, I would not run yearlings out with mares that are going to foal, either- I have just pulled my one yearling (now officially two) from the herd. There is NO way my weaned foal (now officially yearlings) would be out there anyway.

I would not take outside mares, again it destroys the ethos of the herd.

If I were going to hand breed the incomers, then the amount you pay out on insurance, which yo have to have, way outweighs the amount you would be likely to get as a stud fee.

Most people will assume you are just going to chuck their mare out in the field with your stallion- and, Gee Whizz, why on earth should they pay anything for that??Seems to be the general attitude.

If you horses were proven producers of show winning stock, it might be worth it.

You can get them to sign a "waiver" if they are friends.

If something goes seriously wrong and the mare dies, that waiver will not be worth the paper on which it is written.

Even with a disclaimer, they have the right to expect due care and attention. If they can prove, under law, that this was not given, they can nail you for the thousands of dollars their mare will suddenly become worth.

 

[KrisP]

Have either of these boys ever been used to breed? Sometimes if they have they don't forget it and will go through all the motions even long after gelding so can't ever be run with mares.

If they haven't been bred and are mellow boys I'd say usually 6-8 weeks to get the worst of the testosterone out of their systems.

Now I do have a gelding that runs with my mares but he's been with them for years and is my herd protector, heaven help any dog/coyote/fox that enters my field :new_shocked:

As for breeding outside mares read the other thread regarding this, lots of good information there.

krisp

 

[Magic]

I've heard a saying that it takes at least one month for each year a stallion is old at the time of gelding, for him to start acting like a gelding. So a two year old, two months, a four year old, four months. I'm not saying that this is a proven thing, just something I've heard and that generally makes sense to me.

As for putting them out with bred mares and young fillies, I wouldn't, at least right now, immediately after being gelded. I would guess that your mares are in or close to their third trimester? Too much stress wouldn't be good for them, and adding two recently gelded stallions would definitely be stressful. But, I see no reason why the two newly-gelded boys couldn't share a pen/pasture with each other right away. They will surely enjoy the companionship, and if they haven't lived with other horses for a while, they can re-learn what it's like to be part of a "herd". Maybe later in the year you could turn them out with the mares, after the foals are older or being weaned?

Oh, and you do need to download "Gelding Certificates" from the AMHR website and have your vet sign them for you, and send those in with the horses' registration papers with the fee for stallion-to-gelding.

Good luck, and kudos to you for gelding those stallions-- you won't regret it! :aktion033:

 

[YHFF Miniature Horses]

I talked to my vet and he said to wait at least 2 weeks. However, I doubt that I will putting any horses with them til early fall, and not with the mares. However, I may put the 2 boys toghether in a couple of months (under supervision of course). I keep my stallions in seperate pastures too and then the mares come visit them when in season, inorder to avoid any problems that they may cause with in the two herds of mares. NO, MY GELDINGS HAVE NEVER BEEN USED FOR BREEDING! They are big mellow babys who lay their head in your lap, and even kids can lead them, under supervision of course, as stallions have one track minds at times. They are extremely gentle, and the youngest one doeswn't even look at the mares when he can see them. And just a few days after being gelded they are acting way better than the mares, I can't wait to get these boys on the cart! (not til summer when they are definatly recovered.) Anyways the boys have been going for lots of long walks lately to prevent swelling, 3 times a day, one mile each time.

Also i saw the topic that was suggested, that what got me to think about starting this one with the geldings.

Yes, the people are friends, however I doubt I will except their mares for the reasons I listed in my first post and as one of you said, I don't want to upset the balance of my herd.

 

[Wally]

I wouldn't put newly castrated horses our with pregnant mares, yeld ones one yes, but not pregnant ones.

Our geldings get just too overly when they see a new foal, I like them to be a good few weeks old before they have to be introduced to new horses.

Just had Kestrel done, he's still in stallion and gelding park, he was done, maybe, 5 weeks ago.

It's funny, here you'd be expected to leave the stallion to run with his mares, anything less would not be considered right and proper.

 

[Bluerocket]

[SIZE=18pt]To answer your question about the vet signature -- [/SIZE]

AMHA: Vet signature NOT required

http://www.amha.org/pdf/reg/GeldingVerificationForm.pdf

AMHR: Vet signature required

http://www.shetlandminiature.com/downloads/gelding_cert.pdf

 

[Joyce]

I agree with Magic. I had a breeding stallion gelded at the age of 9 years old and it took him 18 months to calm down and realize he was not breeding anymore. He had foals and it took 2 months for every year to do it for him. I do understand they are not fertile after 6 to 8 weeks but who wants them breeding your mares like they are fertile.

Joyce

 

[Jean_B]

First of all - no - do not put those newly gelded boys in with the bred mares. rabbitsfizz said it best. There is a herd pecking order firmly in place right now and all you-know-what will break loose by adding ANY new horses to the mix...which is particularly bad to do this late in gestation.

And I know of a "big" horse that was impregnated by a 2 year old colt .... and full 4 weeks after he was gelded. My vet always says to wait at least 6 weeks. I always wait a full 2 months, just because I don't trust male hormones :new_shocked: !

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