Traces...tight or loose?

[onequarterfarm]

at local shows around me, I've observed traces being hooked with no slack...from pics from world shows, both AMHA and AMHR I see loose traces and some that appear to go outside the shaft and back inside again before hooking to the cart.

Which is the correct placement? Should the horse be pulling the cart from the traces or the tugs? I am a newbie, obviously, but wondering why the difference???

Thanks,

Nikki

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

Yes, IMO the horse should be pulling with the traces but you will see them slack when the horse is actually using the saddle (thus his back) to move the cart. Many breed show drivers want to see the horse using the harness saddle rather than the traces because it 'opens up the shoulders' (the way I have had it described to me) and allows more freedom of movement in the front end. That may be fine (I personally don't agree with it) in an arena on a flat surface and in good footing but when any one of those three conditions are not met it is IMO unfair to ask a horse to use its back to pull with rather than pushing into the traces. It IMO negates the value of collection. Others will not agree with me I'm sure but I doubt a driven dressage judge would place a horse that was harnessed in such a way and it is much harder on cross country drives for a horse to move the driver/cart forward. Rather than pushing up hills with his engine (his hind quarters) he must tug the cart up with his girth..

 

[Margo_C-T]

Reignmaker is right on target in her reply!

 

[studiowvw]

Seems to me that it is the saddle/girth friction on the barrel that is pulling the cart and driver in this show type of hitching.

Therefore the amount the mini could actually pull would be much less than using the direct action of pushing into breast collar/traces.

 

[onequarterfarm]

Thanks for the explanation...makes sense now

 

[Katie Iceton]

When did the breed ring become so un-focused on the comfort and well being of the horses?? It makes me so sad

 

[Champ]

People do it because judges place them in classes

if they stopped doing so, then maybe people would stop that practice.....

 

[studiowvw]

Just been thinking that the show type of hitching is like wearing high heels. More fashionable, more "sexy", makes people look taller... but can you really walk in them?

Of course, we have a choice to wear high heels or not, but the horses don't get to choose between fashion and common sense.

 

[Sandee]

Only time there should be slack in the traces is when the horse is stopped or not "in draft" (pulling) the cart. Some "wrap" the traces around the shafts because they got in a habit when these small horses didn't have properly fitted harness.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Absolutely spot on, Sandee. The term "in draught" is one I use all the time and the one I most often get asked to explain- I would actually go one further and say the only time there should be any slack is when the horse is going down hill. When standing still you should certainly be able to feel lack of tension in the traces but there should not really be visible slack. When in draught the traces are the only thing that the horse should be pulling with, therefore they should be taught.

Katie, sadly, the show ring, any animal, any breed, gives no concession to the animal's needs or comfort. It is a beauty pageant in which the participants have no choice- models choose to starve themselves to look that way, animals have no say. It is therefore up to us to do anything we can to educate newcomers and Judges.

 

[diamond c]

I agree, traces are for pulling the cart/wagon. Look at team wagons, the traces are never slack unless the horse/mule/donkey is backing up.

 

[Performancemini]

Yes. And what do they back up with? Breeching! And do you usually see that in the breed ring pleasure classes? No! (rarely). Another comfort and proper harnessing thing that's been eliminated by most! (including ourselves - until next year- we are planning on throwing fashion out the window!!!).

 

[Indian*R*A*I*N*Dance]

I might get yelled at for this one but- I agree with what Reignmaker is saying about 'opening up the shoulders' so the horse has more freedom of movement but how do you think they get a horse to do that? You train the horse to correctly move off of the hind end..an no it's not cruel..that's how a horse should move, with impulsion- back to front. In every discipline a horse needs to correctly use their 'ring of muscles' or else they won't be able to perform athletically. A horse needs to use 'the ring' to coil its loin to be able to push off for a jump, western pleasure horses use impulsion to push off at the lope, dressage horses need to be able to push off to preform piaffes or tempis. What do these all have in common? They all have to PUSH off. A driving horse should use his hind end to push off the ground into a trot and working trot. Horses work back to front, pushing off from the hind end to the front end. Many of them push themselves into the bridle, not the breastplate, which I would rather see but I know a lot of people would disagree. So why are the traces loose? They are loose because the horse is not heavy on the forehand and doesn't lean on the breastplate to pull the cart. They push themselves into the bridle. They aren't pulling the bridle, the are pushing themselves into the tack. I hear it time and time again when I am at the barn since my school is mainly dressage; the horse needs to engage its hind quarters to have enough impulsion to be able to settle into the bridle. Since the horse naturally stands with 60% of its weight on the front end, it needs to be trained on how to use the hind end so the horse is balanced.

In my honest opinion, it's harder on the horse to push directly on the breastplate and pull with all the weight on the traces. The horse will be heavy on the forehand which is when most horses stumble.It's the same concept as you trying to push a car..it's not easy. It's hard to get that forward impulsion when the horse is restricted. I'm NOT saying every horse should have loose traces. Many will not be loose and the horse will still be working off the hind end, a lot also depends on the length of your traces compared to your horse.

Coming from the show ring, I feel like a lot of people pick on and talk negatively about things that are "wrong" and "incorrect" but the people who show focus on working the horse so they build the muscle to do the job correctly. You can't take a horse with no prior training, right from the field and expect it to engage his hind end along with having a strong enough scalenus and longis colli muscle to hold a head set, those are muscles that need to be worked...I don't thinks its cruel to train your horse to correctly use those muscles so they can preform the task at hand.

I would never wrap the traces around the shafts, it's a safety issue. I was at a show where a judge went up to someone who did that and told her not to.

 

[Minimor]

With all due respect--the majority of the show ring harness horses are NOT working back to front--a horse that is engaging his hindquarters properly has a rounded back, which allows his hind legs to get under him, and yes, that does elevate the front end. However--show ring driving horses are not trained that way. Look at them carefully. Hind legs are frequently trailing, not getting up and under the horse. Front end is pulled up by the check rein and lines. Horse's back is hollowed--with a hollow back the horse cannot engage his hindquarters. These horses do not get the dressage training it takes to get the engagement and elevation that you see in a truly light, collected horse--they are simply made to go in a certain frame.

If the traces are not taut then the horse is pulling with something else--either the saddle or the lines. In a level arena with firm footing pulling with the saddle isn't a huge issue--the horses get by it seems. If the horse is pulling from his mouth--that would be very wrong. If the horse is pulling with his mouth then he is not light in the bridle, he is not collected, he is not anything except having his face pulled off!! Please.

 

[susanne]

It's the same concept as you trying to push a car..it's not easy. It's hard to get that forward impulsion when the horse is restricted.

Hmm...so, next time we need to move our car, instead of pushing, it would be easier to pull it with a rope tied around our waists or in our mouths? Or perhaps we will look better doing it?

Since you mention dressage, you may wish to read up on driven dressage, including experts such as Heike Bean, or to view the many videos available online (CDEs, pleasure shows, etc.).

 

[Marsha Cassada]

I'm a little confused. How can a dressage harness horse and a dressage ridden horse do their work the same? The ridden horse must lift the weight, the harness horse must pull the weight. I understand about centering the weight or load so the horse can use its body more freely. I understand about teaching horse to use its muscles to best advantage, like a person learning to lift a heavy load corrrectly. But a horse carrying a weight and using its hind to lift itself is not the same as a hrose pulling a weight and using its hind to displace inertia. Isn't it better for a horse to use the widest, most forward part of its body to move a load? (I'll admit sometimes my hroses are wider around the middle than their chests!)

I invested in a quality breast collar with the understanding that my horse will be pulling me, not pushing or lifting me.

The different disciplines use different words for the same concept or even piece of equipment.

Sometimes it seems folks in the horse world are speaking different languages; they may mean the same thing but the words are understood differently.

 

[Minimor]

Regardless of what words are used....the fact remains that if the horse is correctly hitched the traces should never be loose except when the horse is stopped or is braking with the breeching. When there is forward momentum (unless going downhill, in which case there is forward momentum even while the horse is braking) and the traces are loose, it means that the horse is pulling with something other than those traces.

Technically the horse is pulling the cart, but in doing so he is pushing against the breastcollar with his chest, and so some people say that he is actually pushing. Either way--he will be using the traces to make the cart come along behind him.

Whether ridden or driven, in dressage the horse should be rounding his back,; this allows him to get his hind legs under himself, and to also elevate his front end by shifting his weight off of his forehand. Because the driven dressage horse is propelling the weight behind him and the ridden dressage horse is carrying the weight on his back the two horses will be compensating for those weights in somewhat different ways, but with correct training and conditioning the end result is the same.

 

[Marsha Cassada]

Technically the horse is pulling the cart, but in doing so he is pushing against the breastcollar with his chest, and so some people say that he is actually pushing. Either way--he will be using the traces to make the cart come along behind him.

That makes sense! The visual picture of a horse pushing with his hind into the breast collar is clear. The pulling of the cart is the result of the pushing. The blind man sees!

 

[Reignmaker Miniatures]

I am speechless! (which doesn't happen often I assure you ) and Minimor has said it better than I could anyway.

 

[onequarterfarm]

I love a spirited discussion and appreciate BOTH sides of an arguement. Here's what I am referring to in my original question, and I loved this horse on the live feed...2013 AMHA champ 4 yr old single action futurity driving winner. Those ARE the traces, correct? I am still learning all of this

https://www.caseymcbridephotography.com/dspProofImage.asp?width=1024&show=2013%20AMHA%20World%20Championship%20Show\OCT%2003%2C%20THURSDAY\F21%20-%20Four%20Year%20Old%20Single%20Pleasure%20Driving%20Futurity&image=F21-017-13WCS.JPG