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ohmt

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Alright, so I have been enrolled in my equine studies class since the middle of August and I get incredibly frustrated with it almost every day. I am paying ALOT of money for this class--they could at least teach their students the right things.

Today: we are learning about color genetics which I have always found fascinating so I have been doing a lot of research for years. PRETTY sure the dun gene on bay does NOT create a buckskin dun. NO no NO!

Palominos do NOT depend on the agouti gene whatsoever. Today we learned that in order to have a palomino, a horse must be either homozygous or heterozygous for agouti. WRONG.

Greys and silvers are very different--my teacher keeps showing students pictures of silver dapples and telling them that the are the same as a grey. Aghhhh....she also has been showing different types of palominos-"regular", "golden", and "chocolate"--but she says they all have the same genotype. The first two, yes. A chocolate palomino?? NO. I hate that term because chocolate makes me think black based and palomino makes me think red based. Very contradicting and confusing for newbies. The pictures she showed were most likely a silver smokey black.

The lethal white genes that come from true white horses and frames are different!! Today we were taught that a horse with one W gene causes a horse to be white always. Two W genes causes lethal white. That's correct. THEN we were taught that its most common in Paints. WRONG. They are completely different genes. Yes, frames have the lethal white gene BUT one LWO gene does not make the horse true white. No no NO-they are different

We also learned about inbreeding, linebreeding, closebreeding, etc. She told us absolutely never ever line or closebreed horses because 9 times out of 10 it will end in defects or a very poor quality horse. In some cases, yes, but not always. I tried to tell her about Buckeroo and how well line and closebreeding has worked for little king farm. I was then lectured about how those horses probably have tons of defects and would never produce well. I didn't tell her that my family which has been breeding minis for about 30 or so years has practiced line and closebreeding on more than one occasion and every time has resulted in exactly what we wanted. Of course you have to be careful and it could backfire if you don't know the line you're working with, but I felt a little sad that the word "never" was used when I feel it has helped to improve the miniature horse breed.

Oh and we're supposed to breed average quality horses with another average quality horse because it almost always results in a higher quality horse. Breeding an exceptional horse with another exceptional horse almost always results in a lower quality horse. WHAT????!!!!

Lastly was a few weeks ago when we were learning about different breeds-the shetlands were described as stocky, fuzzy ponies that make good childrens pets. Pictures of them looked like they were short, fat little minis from the 1970s or something. I wanted to whip out the journal and show everyone how gorgeous they really are and how they make such amazing show horses

She did somewhat well with the minis but only talked about AMHA and then said they register horses 38" and under. Hmmmm....

Sorry for the negative post, it's just frustrating for me sometimes. The biggest thing for me is that in 2 1/2 months, my teacher has not ONCE mentioned how the horse market is right now. We've learned about breeding techniques and how to increase conception rates, oh and that we should breed average/low quality with average/low quality, but not once has she mentioned how many unwanted horses there are out there right now and how low the prices for horses are at the moment. I figured that'd be one of the first things taught...as it should be.
 
You must be the strong, silent type.
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Wow! Makes you wonder about the things that she is teaching you that YOU don't know about... Very, very sad! I never consider myself an expert, but sometimes I'll talk to people who have been around forever, and some of the things they say shock me.
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Its not just your teacher... Granted its been many years, but I took several horse courses in college, one taught by the head of the equine department. In that class, one day his lecture completely contradicted the class required text, I called him on it and he told me that whatever he taught in class is how it would be on the tests, so that's how we should remember it. [You know the type; His word is the only word.
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Its very scary just how wrong the information is in your class, and you've only given us a sample.
 
We had a college student who was pre vet (now in her third year of vet school) that worked for us for many years.

She had to learn to separate what she learned in practical experience hereon the ranch and what was taught by the classroom teachers, many of which had never seen a birth, let alone owned a horse.

She too learned in order to pass the class she had to parrot the teacher and write the wrong things on the tests.

I am sorry you have to experience this as well. I know how incredibly frustrating it is to be in a class and know the teacher is wrong.
 
I can't stress this enough, if she has got all this wrong, what else has she got wrong??

You need to lodge a formal complaint, not against the Teacher personally, but against the school for supporting incorrect knowledge.

Teachers are in a unique position, and to find one who is too lazy to bother learning the facts makes me very cross!!!
 
Unfortunately it is not just in the classroom. I see it all of the time on TV. Animal Planet, Discovery Channel, etc. There is a plethatude of misinformation out there.

Obviously this teacher is only book wise and really has no hands on experience.

I guess if it were me (since I can never keep my mouth shut), I would meet with her after class with true facts. Of course when I was college age, I was a Casper Milk Toast. Only with many years of experience both good and bad, have I been able to state my opinion.

But do not be surprised if she feels that she is right and you must be wrong.
 
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OH MY GOODNESS!!!

That is absolutely ridiculous!!!! Not only is it completely bogus, but I find it dangerous!! What if some of these people who didn't have prior knowledge like you do went on to breeding.... and thought that because of what this teacher said, breeding 2 frames was just fine?!?! How horrible!! I agree, file a complaint. Boy, sure gives confidence in the school systems of today, don't it!
 
I'm afraid I was the exact opposite, I was the one arguing the ins and outs of the virgin birth with my RI teacher, so I have always been this way!!!

I can totally understand you not wanting to make a stand, but YOU paid for this and it is quite obvious from what you are saying that you would actually make a better job of teaching the class than the teacher!!

Go to the principal, but I would advise you to write a letter in the first instance, as a letter does not forget to say things, nor does it get emotional!!
 
I just today ran off several articles from the Paint horse Association web site concerning all of those topics you are discussing in class. You could run them off for the teacher and meet with her and let her know that she needs to update her information. (Or slip them under her office door if you want) These articles are written so most people with any basic knowledge of genetics can understand them. The other students who don't have as much experience with color need to know the correct information.
 
Book learning vs "real world" experiences often are very, very different. If my vets had had their way, Sonata would have been put down a couple of weeks ago - I am not saying that she may not still need this release, but the apathy in which the message was delivered was very painful. Sonata is continuing to fight her battle of "the numbers" and I pray that she will win this one.

Along the same line, when Rose dislocated her hip the message from the vets was: "Put her down now, put her down later, or let her live her life in pain". Well, surgery was performed and altho Rose has a definate gimp - she is far from in any pain and regulary gives the other horses a good "run for the money".

And then there is Leah - ruptured spleen due to a kick - nearly 50% of her blood was pooling in her abdomen, again the message from the vets: "put her down". My message back to them was - "let's try some coagulants & plasma & see what happens" - that was over 7 years ago, not only did she carry the baby in her at the time of the accident to full term, but also has gone on to produce several beautiful foals since then.

So you see, sometimes all the book learning in the world isn't as valuable as the lessons we have learned from real world experience.

Hang in there - you will no doubt come thru with a lot of valuable information and be able to use your 30+ years as well in making decisions in the future.

Stacy
 
I agree with those who have suggested taking it up with the principal, or dean, or whatever. Have all the facts you need, such as those Paint horse articles and whatever other written information you have, and SHOW them that the curriculum is not correct. It doesn't have to be a personal thing against the teacher, but it's just not acceptable to have WRONG information passed on, especially at the college level. Going to school is not just about book learning. It's about learning to stand up for what's right, too!
 
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My suggestion is to present some recent research to your instructor first before you go to the Dean. When you "go over someone's head" that often leads to retaliation (your grades) and forces them to be defensive and spiteful to you. When people get in a defensive mode, they will do all they can to protect themselves and to get back at YOU.

Print out some information from a reliable source such as UC Davis Vet School.

Instead of telling her she is wrong, ask her, "I've found some recent research, and some of it conflicts with information in class. I am confused. Can you explain this to me?"

In that way, you are asking for information and clarification rather than insinuating that she is not up to current research, she is not teaching correctly, or she is giving incorrect information. Ask as if you are just seeking information rather than confronting her for her mistakes. See if she will read your information and reconsider the current research. If she doesn't budge, then go to the Dean

Below are two resources that you can copy information from. http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/coatcolorhorse.php

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/coatcolorhorse.php

http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

JMHO

Good luck. Let us know what happens.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice! Its good to know that I wasn't being unjust for feeling frustrated.

Yes, I am the quiet type. I have spoken up a few times-where I've said, "Oh, I was always taught that this gene did this", or "my vet has told me this and this". It's helped a couple of times and she has admitted that she could be wrong, but never researched it or corrected in to the rest of the class. I think I will try meeting with her after class one day with some articles and then ask questions to see if that hits home
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I'd rather not go to the President with it, she is a very nice lady and I've always felt that if someone has a problem then they should address the person with whom they have the problem with first. THEN, if it persists, up the ladder I'll go.

The part that scares me is that I have grown up with miniature horses and miniature horses only. I have a 14 hand grade quarter horse gelding that I ride bareback with a hackamore. I know nothing about riding, showing, or working with full sized horses yet. I was hoping the class would help me with that. Now I'm just worried that I'm being taught the wrong things!

I'll have class again Monday and then I'll let everyone know how it goes!
 
The part that scares me is that I have grown up with miniature horses and miniature horses only. I have a 14 hand grade quarter horse gelding that I ride bareback with a hackamore. I know nothing about riding, showing, or working with full sized horses yet. I was hoping the class would help me with that.!
You have more hands on knowledge than you give yourself credit for. Hands on experience will always come out on top of book knowledge, its nice when they are used hand in hand.

If you want BH knowlegde, classes are good, but seek out a mentor/trainer for showing. It is always nice to expand our horizons, given that we are supplied with accurate information.
 
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I should be a little wary of the Paint horse info, myself, as a lot of it is.....hmm, questionably accurate????
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