That pesky "gray" gene.

[wantminimore]

If a horse is NOT gray himself( even though he has a few gray ancestors)... he will not produce a gray or fading gray gene foal... unless he is bred to a gray horse?

That's right, Robin! Grey is a dominant gene and will not 'hide'. It takes a visible grey to produce grey. Many don't understand how grey works. I had a heck of a time selling non grey foals out of a grey pinto mare I had. If the foals weren't grey, they didn't inherit the greying gene no matter how 'grey' the dam was!

I'm lost here. Couldn't one of your non grey foals out of a grey mare eventually turn grey as it got older?

Leslie

 

[RobinRTrueJoy]

Thank you.

Now if a horse is mature... say 5-6 years old and NOT showing signs of fading or greying, he should be "Safe" by that age?

Thanks!

Robin

 

[Ashley]

That's right, Robin! Grey is a dominant gene and will not 'hide'. It takes a visible grey to produce grey. Many don't understand how grey works. I had a heck of a time selling non grey foals out of a grey pinto mare I had. If the foals weren't grey, they didn't inherit the greying gene no matter how 'grey' the dam was!


I'm lost here. Couldn't one of your non grey foals out of a grey mare eventually turn grey as it got older?

Typically gray will show signs as babies. Most are really prominate. However not all foals will show it, and they will gray. WE had one colt born that was black. He looked like a normal black foal. He had no signs. I couldnt find a gray hair on him. But come yearling year, they started comming through. Very slowly but he did turn gray.

 

[Becky]

Couldn't one of your non grey foals out of a grey mare eventually turn grey as it got older?

No. If a foal doesn't inherit the greying gene, it will NOT turn grey. I have never seen a grey foal that didn't show some sign of turning grey as a weanling/yearling. The white hairs will generally start to show on the head, particularly around the eyes.

Remember, that to inherit grey, one parent will be grey and pass along grey 50% of the time. The other 50% of it's offspring do not inherit grey. The same with any other dominant color or pattern. Think of it this way. A foal with one pinto parent will either be pinto at birth or not. It won't turn 'pinto' later!

 

[targetsmom]

Just repeating some things I learned here on the forum-

Horses with the silver gene and the gray gene will turn gray pretty fast. Blue Boy carried the silver gene, so his descendants are apt to carry both the gray and silver genes (like our mare who was almost white by weaning). Also, I guess it should be obvious by the original question, but gray is not a color itself but modifies other colors. So any color can turn gray if the horse inherits the gray gene from one or both parents. That also means that a gray horse can be "hiding" all sorts of color genes! For example, our gray mare is genetically a silver bay frame overo (LWO+), and homozygous for black. With the gray gene of course! She is bred to our chestnut tobiano (LWO-) stallion and they cannot produce a red based foal. Of course, there is a 50% chance they will produce a gray, but also a 50% chance they WON'T. We like to think they would (and they COULD) produce a loud (non-gray) frame overo foal with Buckeroo/Blue Boy and Rowdy blood. How cool would THAT be?

If you have a foal from a silver parent (like we will), and you are unsure if it will turn gray, you could test for silver. That way you could at least get an idea of how long you would have to wait to find out!

 

[shelia]

Horses turn grey at different rates. Some turn grey very quickly and others take years. It starts around the eyes and spreads over the entire body. If a horse has a bald face or is an appy it can be hard to tell for a while. In classic roan the face will stay dark. In appys it can take years to tell for sure. The regular appy roaning can mask it and the spots sometimes hold the color well into 15 or 16 years of age. The white does seem to be whiter than the appy roaning though.

I have heard that greys have a higher rate of not only melanoma, but also internal tumors. Someone told me that they will all eventually get cancer. (Is that true?)

I think the greys are beautiful once they pass that awkward stage.

I have Appys so I am avoiding greys. I may get one someday though, just because I love the color.

I agree that conformation comes first, but I believe that we should also take into consideration color. With all of the horses with great conformation out there we should be able to start separating the into color without hurting conformation. I like to know what color I am getting when I breed.

Shelia B.

 

[EquestraDreams]

I personally do not like greys and would not purchase one, nor breed to one. I have only 1 grey mare, purchased as a BLACK weanling(she has had 2 foals, neither greyed), who is going on 15 and she does have benign melanomas under her tail which have made it impossible to continue driving her (they are right where the crupper lays).

 

[wpsellwood]

I will never have a grey either (pre grey horses)! They are all mares, now I say I would prefer not to have a grey stallion

 

[kimie28]

Been there , done that! I did so much research on the grey gene as my stallion I just sold did turn out to be grey. You would not believe the different opinions I got on him as he was changing. He was a bay dun that turned grey (still is changing) but boy along the way, people talked....

The Vet thought he was a roan, other breeders thought he was a silver buckskin (mom is silver bay pinto) and then others thought he just had the sabino gene. His dad is snow white, his full sister that is younger than him is snow white. He is just taking his time changing. The best answer I got was the theory that a dun will grey slower. Anybody else heard or experience that? I know he just looks bay but his dad who turned grey was a dun and then this guy had very dominant zebra stripes and dorsal line indicating dun. As a matter of fact, the dorsal line was the very last to grey on his body.

It was very weird as he would change back to a bay with winter coat, until this year. Attached is a picture of him in winter coat last year (notice his white face still) and then the next picture is this past summer at 3 1/2 yrs old. (notice his dark points still there) He produced his first colts this year, both appear to be greying. One like him, bay dun, the other black turning grey. I kinda regret selling him but he went to a GREAT home to be a trick horse with the Arabian Knights Theater in Orlando and can't wait to see him preform!

And as far as you people saying it doesn't matter if they are grey, you definately aren't here in Florida because his one colt is drop dead gorgous and I can't seem to get him sold because of him possibly being grey. So if he doesn't sell soon, he just may be my first own breeeding SHOW COLT!

 

[Lewella]

When I posted, I had not read through the thread all the way. I own several perlino mares, and used to own a cremello. Are you sure you really cannot tell if a cremello is greyed??? A non-greyed cremello's hair coat is no at all white. It is a light buff color. I mean, I can see the white markings on mine against the cream colored cremello coat, or see a huge difference when one stands next to a grey or a pinto horse. Doesn't the grey turn that cream color to white?????

Jill

In some cases you can tell a cremello has grayed but so many cremellos are so light to begin with that unless you have pictures of them from birth on to compare you cannot tell they have grayed out.

There have been major scandals in a couple of big horse breeds because of how difficult it is to tell a cremello gray from a regular cremello. Some stallion owners had to deal with some very unhappy mare owners when their palomino and buckskin foals started graying out.....

 

[PaintNminis]

I Personaly like Gray Horses and any Colored Horses for that matter

But to me the MOST important thing is Excellent Conformation AMHA/AMHR Registered & a Great Pedigree

 

[Jill]

In some cases you can tell a cremello has grayed but so many cremellos are so light to begin with that unless you have pictures of them from birth on to compare you cannot tell they have grayed out.

I think I am seeing your point. However, it is typical for a cremello / perlino to be darker at birth and then much lighter as they mature. That's been the case with all of mine and none of them have the grey gene. (see below, babies compared to current age)...

 

[MyBarakah]

Hi!

Since we are talking about Grey's! I had to show off my grey weanling filly, Miss Maggie! I have a full sibling coming in '08 that I think will be the same since the mare produces' what ever the sire is. This filly will be small (30" at maturity) and she is just WOW! Who CARES what color she is!

 

[Magic]

I love the gray coloring, and a gorgeous gray horse. That said, I ended up selling the gray mare I had , and her gray filly, because they weren't going to work in my predominately appaloosa breeding program. And I've found that grays ARE more difficult to sell, sadly. My gray mare was beautiful, super-sweet, and had a non-graying buckskin, and a non-graying palomino before she gave birth to a black-going-gray filly, all really lovely foals. I kept the palomino filly.

I still really admire nice gray horses, it's just best that I don't personally have any.

 

[Dairygirl]

Here is my stallion. I'm breeding for dilutes now and really don't need him but I sure love looking at him. This is a winter pic. of him and he is a son of Egyptian King. Everyone that comes to the farm loves looking at him. I have a friend who can find fault in any horse and she loves this guy. LOL.

 

[Lewella]

I think I am seeing your point. However, it is typical for a cremello / perlino to be darker at birth and then much lighter as they mature.

Exactly - on the darker newborn colt there's a chance you would be able to see some indication of gray goggles. Cream gened gray horses also have a tendancy to go darker before the go lighter so instead of seeing a really light yearling coat - you might be able to tell the cremello is going gray because of it going through a darker graying phase.

 

[Riverdance]

I am usually not color blind as the conformation of the horse is most important to me. But, saying that, I do avoid a gray or pinto gray as they are so strong in producing that color and it seems to be very hard to sell.

It seems that the pet public love that color, but not the showing public.

I am a bit of a genetic freek and have studied genetics not only in college so many years ago, but also it is ongoing. I have bred Tibetan Terriers for over 30 years and can tell you everything about their colors. In horses, I am trying to get as good. I do know that the horse has to be a gray color in order to produce gray, as it is a dominant gene. I am not sure if two grays can only produce gray, that is one I would have to study.

Hello

I am afraid that I will be on this computer even more than before, but I do think this forum will be fun!!

Love your filly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can understand why you do not care what color she is!!

Hi!

Since we are talking about Grey's! I had to show off my grey weanling filly, Miss Maggie! I have a full sibling coming in '08 that I think will be the same since the mare produces' what ever the sire is. This filly will be small (30" at maturity) and she is just WOW! Who CARES what color she is!

 

[Lewella]

I do know that the horse has to be a gray color in order to produce gray, as it is a dominant gene. I am not sure if two grays can only produce gray, that is one I would have to study.

If a heterozygous gray is bred to a heterozygous gray (heterozygous meaning one copy of the gene) there is a 50% chance they will produce another heterozygous gray, a 25% chance they will produce a homozygous gray (one that will ONLY produce gray offspring) and a 25% chance they will produce a non-gray foal.

Lewella

 

[Jean_B]

I don't care if a horse is purple, chartruce, or lime green as long as it has good conformation. Color is the LAST thing I consider...if I consider it at all.

 

[Jill]

I think I am seeing your point. However, it is typical for a cremello / perlino to be darker at birth and then much lighter as they mature.

Exactly - on the darker newborn colt there's a chance you would be able to see some indication of gray goggles. Cream gened gray horses also have a tendancy to go darker before the go lighter so instead of seeing a really light yearling coat - you might be able to tell the cremello is going gray because of it going through a darker graying phase.

I know that palominos go darker before they go grey, but I didn't always know that! I have a 2006 palomino-grey and learned by watching her. Her legs are a charcoal grey and she's got grey roots in her mane and tail, etc. Her transformation is fascinating to me.

BUT, I did not think (speculation in my own head) that a cremello, with pink skin, would also get darker before going light? It made sense to me after I saw that a palomino would as they have black skin, but I didn't think a cremello would do something similar.

(Not disputing -- just thinking out loud. I've never seen a cremello / perlino go grey so I am very curious!)