Texas Tooth Law

[vickie gee]

Carl does mine - he's reasonable, does good work and knows what he is doing. I don't know what part of Texas you are in, but you might give him a call. There is also a vet/dental specialist out of Houston who travels, she has done my big horses and I know she makes regular runs to the Austin/Georgetown area. I know there are others, that's just my personal experience.

Jan

I am in the Texarkana area. Although I am not own a first name basis with Carl (assuming you mean Carl Mitz) I doubt very seriously he would want to travel here. But let's say for instance if he would be willing to if several horse owners in my area were interested in having their horses' teeth floated would Carl have to arrange for one of our local vets to "supervise" him. How exactly would that work since the way a schooled equine dentist operates has been compromised? Also who are the "lots of people who worked hard" to get this bill passed?

 

[vickie gee]

The phrase 'direct supervision' can be taken to mean different things depending on how its read.

In some areas that can mean the Vet has first hand knowledge about how the dentist provides care, but isn't physically watching either at all or not all the time and in other areas it can infer that the Vet must be watching directly over his shoulder.

In my Clinic the Dentist is given the stocks and 2 stalls and while he works I can go back periodically and check on him or be working up front. He likes that I now taken some of the burden of care and risk off his shoulders and I feel he does a quality job for my clients and patients.

Dr Taylor

 

[vickie gee]

Thank you Dr. Taylor. Sounds like customers in your area at least still have a place to get their horses' teeth cared for. It is good to know that at least one equine dentist in Texas is able to keep working. Sounds like the two of you have a win/win situation.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

We use our vet (Reata Equine Hospital) and feel they do a great job. I believe the last float we got was $130, no farm call as we take them down there.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I am not at all sure why exactly a qualified Equine dentist would need to have a Vet looking over his or her shoulder?

My Vet is a qualified dentist, so I am in luck there, but also, of course, so long as a dentist is qualified, here, they can work without the interference (and unless the Vet is qualified as a dentist and of higher skill at that part of the practise than the dentist, it is interference) of a vet.

We do need to have a vet come if the horse needs sedation- I will not use any of the pastes on the market for any of my males, ever,so it is injectable sedation or nothing- but that is all.

Presumably, if under direct supervision, you will be getting two bills, one form the dentist and one form the vet?

Also, although I prefer to take my horses into the RVC as it is just round the corner from me, my vet will come out and do the teeth if I wish, it is up to me. Having to take an animal into a vet's is an imposition that is not always possible for people, not everyone has a trailer big enough for more than a couple of horses, after all.

Even if your vet is willing to say "OK the dentist is coming, I have been told" and leave it at that, I doubt very much if you will get it for free- you get charged for a prescription, after all, even if you fill it out yourself, this seems very much the same to me.

Thin end of the wedge, fight it for all you are worth.

Doctors do not pull teeth, nor are they qualified to do so, Dentists do not, (usually) deliver babies.

Equine dentists should undoubtedly be properly qualified, as should all Farriers. If that means licensing them, as Doctors are licensed to practise, then so be it.

 

[Royal Crescent]

I am in the Texarkana area. Although I am not own a first name basis with Carl (assuming you mean Carl Mitz) I doubt very seriously he would want to travel here. But let's say for instance if he would be willing to if several horse owners in my area were interested in having their horses' teeth floated would Carl have to arrange for one of our local vets to "supervise" him. How exactly would that work

since the way a schooled equine dentist operates has been

compromised? Also who are the "lots of people who

worked hard" to get this bill passed?

Carl will go even to other states if there is a group to be done. He has been up to Minnesota where he saw my horses.

Barb

 

[Minimor]

We have a very similar law here & it seems to work okay. One of the vets I use is good at dental work so we use him when we need anything done with teeth. I do know people who use a local equine dentist. He has an agreement with a particular veterinarian, so doesn't have a problem in meeting the requirements of the law. He comes out & works on teeth; the vet does not have to be in attendance. I have no idea if he pays some amount to that veterinarian or if they are simply friends & have this arrangement where the dentist works under the protection of that veterinarian.

People can get one of the other dentists to come out--you would just have to have the vet come out at the same time--somewhat of an inconvenience & of course there's the extra call fee--so yes, it does cost more money, but it does mean that you can still have your choice of who works on your horse's teeth.

It seems the TX law isn't saying you must have a vet do all dental work, just that the dentist must work under the supervision of a vet.

We have a very similar law here & it seems to work okay. One of the vets I use is good at dental work so we use him when we need anything done with teeth. I do know people who use a local equine dentist. He has an agreement with a particular veterinarian, so doesn't have a problem in meeting the requirements of the law. He comes out & works on teeth; the vet does not have to be in attendance. I have no idea if he pays some amount to that veterinarian or if they are simply friends & have this arrangement where the dentist works under the protection of that veterinarian.

People can get one of the other dentists to come out--you would just have to have the vet come out at the same time--somewhat of an inconvenience & of course there's the extra call fee--so yes, it does cost more money, but it does mean that you can still have your choice of who works on your horse's teeth.

It seems the TX law isn't saying you must have a vet do all dental work, just that the dentist must work under the supervision of a vet.

 

[vickie gee]

...so it seems that way indeed (supervision of a vet). Not what I want or need. But I am just one person.

 

[vickie gee]

I know I'm about to lose my cool now, so please forgive me. But, personally, and again, this is my opinion only, I think this is a terrible law, and will be a solution for nothing! There is a farm here where I live who had a vet do her minis teeth, and he didn't think it necessary for him to purchase equipment made for the smaller mouths and wound up using a file with a pointed end on it that -- you guessed it -- went completely through the neck of the mini and nearly killed it! And ALL DONE BY A LICENSED VET!!! Law suit? Who do you file that with? All he did was offer to do her other minis for free, and gave her a couple of thousand dollars and had her sign a "gag" order so she couldn't repeat who did it! VERY SAD!

I personally don't think it was done for anyone's benefit except those that want to control more and more, and gather in more money to their own banks. Goodness -- where I live you can hardly get a vet to come to the farm for an emergency -- let alone to take the time to float teeth!!!

I thank GOD for Carl Mitz, and hope nothing EVER HAPPENS that would keep him from coming to Florida once a year! The man is a gift to many, many horses and their owners -- and no "license" would ever make him any better!

Another way to have the American citizen jump through governmental hoops, and fall under more and more control. Wait until they count the horses in your barn and decide you need a license to own more than ____ ! Forget the selling of them -- how about the owning of them! I know where I live, there is already a limit to the number of dogs you can own if you live in the "city limits" -- and that's even if they ALL LIVE INSIDE your home!

MORE government control is BAD for the people. Licensure means nothing -- almost anyone can pass a state test, pay the fee and VOILE! they are licensed!

Heck, if you're like my state, they have licenses for everything -- but it does NOT ensure you even know what you're doing. But you're LICENSED!

No, I truly believe that this is a horrible law which does away with personal rights of choice -- just to pad the pockets of a few. Another sign of the fall of the rights "of the people".

Fire away!

.I probably deserve it for expressing a sore spot about subjegating the freedoms of people in this country!

.

Amen sister! It is oBAMA CARE being forced on our animals. Socialism and greed got married and gave birth to special interests. People can live under a rock if that is what they want to do but if you want to know what can and cannot be done by whom in the way of animal husbandry in whatever state you reside you can go to avma.org and check out state issues.

 

[ohmt]

Lol vickie gee-you must have missed the part that said PERRY was the one that signed off on it.

 

[vickie gee]

Lol vickie gee-you must have missed the part that said PERRY was the one that signed off on it.

No, I did not miss that. It is a HOUSE BILL that passed, is in effect, and yes he signed it. I am not happy with him at all. This is about horse owners rights and the rights of the equine dentist. I do not care if this gets moved to the BACK PORCH forum since we have "our rules." I just don't want people to cave in and allow the profession of the equine dentist to be supervised by a veterinarian. It is just WRONG.

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

[And ALL DONE BY A LICENSED VET!!! Law suit? Who do you file that with? All he did was offer to do her other minis for free, and gave her a couple of thousand dollars and had her sign a "gag" order so she couldn't repeat who did it! VERY SAD!/quote]
These types of issues can be addressed through 2 different venues;

1)Civil Court-the advantage is that the owner could get reimbursed for expenses and maybe more depending on location, disadvantage is that it would likely require the hiring of a lawyer, likely at some expense up front, although some do not charge but then get a larger 'cut' if they win.

2)State Bureau of Health Professional-Licensing Division-the advantage is that the Sate will investigate at no cost to you, disadvantage is that you won't get paid.

As a fellow professional it disappoints me that more people do not use the latter system. I as well as many other Vets know of Doctors that shouldn't be allowed to practice. Unfortunately, very few people use that system and worse yet, if another professional complains nothing will be done. It only works if the client starts the complaint. Enough complaints and the Vet would lose their license.

Dr Taylor

 

[wildoak]

I am with you 100% about too much government interference, but before you get too rattled about this, it's been in the works for longer than Obama has been in office LOL. And was initiated by the "good old boys" on the Texas Veterinary Medical Examiners Board. What they wanted was MUCH more restrictive than what finally passed, the most vocal of them wanted dental tools in the hands of vets only. They were killing an entire profession, and thankfully Carl and many others stepped up and fought back for several years. Some of you may remember, a cease and desist order was filed against Carl and any others they were able to identify... they filed suit, took several years and any number of trips to the state capitol but the judge finally ruled in his favor and allowed them to continue to practice until the legislature was able to resolve it. Carl had a very hands on role in making this happen and is now on the Vet Board in an advisory capacity. This is not entirely something "they" did to us, it's a compromise that will - I hope - keep this profession in business in Texas, and will be some assurance to us that the dental techs who work on our horses, like our vets, are educated and qualified. Not a terrible solution in my mind.

Jan

 

[vickie gee]

I am with you 100% about too much government interference, but before you get too rattled about this, it's been in the works for longer than Obama has been in office LOL. And was initiated by the "good old boys" on the Texas Veterinary Medical Examiners Board. What they wanted was MUCH more restrictive than what finally passed, the most vocal of them wanted dental tools in the hands of vets only. They were killing an entire profession, and thankfully Carl and many others stepped up and fought back for several years. Some of you may remember, a cease and desist order was filed against Carl and any others they were able to identify... they filed suit, took several years and any number of trips to the state capitol but the judge finally ruled in his favor and allowed them to continue to practice until the legislature was able to resolve it. Carl had a very hands on role in making this happen and is now on the Vet Board in an advisory capacity. This is not entirely something "they" did to us, it's a compromise that will - I hope - keep this profession in business in Texas, and will be some assurance to us that the dental techs who work on our horses, like our vets, are educated and qualified. Not a terrible solution in my mind.

Jan

Thanks for pointing out "the good old boys" Jan. I already knew it but was hoping somebody would point it out. Glad my "analogy" got attention. I know there is compromise and there is compromise. Seems we did not get a win. We were in a position to take what we could and hope to fight later for the rest. I appreciate the hard work put into getting what we could get at the time. The utube videos the Institute For Justice made were so awesome and convincing in defense of the equine dentist. Any legislator that watched them and did not do everything in their power to give freedom to work and respect to the equine dentist is in my opinion corrupt, regardless of what political party they are affiliated with. Hopefully Carl's voice on the board will carry the weight that (with time) will cause the interference to back off.

I especially would like to thank everyone who PM'd me to let me know how they get their horses teeth done now that there is this gray area about who can float.

 

[HGFarm]

I hear ya Diane and the 'sheeple' will continue on in this manner and think 'this doesnt affect me', when in reality it does, as it seems to lead to more and more interferance by the government.

I am really sad that it came to this, compromise or not.

 

[Texasspook]

The law in TX doesn't go into effect until Sept 2012 so your equine dentist can practice until then. After that they will have to work under general supervision of a vet which means the vet doesn't necessarily have to be present. You will have to get a vet that you have a client relationship with to agree to this. Then your equine dentist will have to provide you with records of what work was done on your horses and they will keep records for 5 years...I also think you have to give a copy to the vet but can't remember for sure.

Carl conveyed to me he was content with how things worked out and even complimented Perry for signing the law because Perry could have vetoed or ignored it leaving us with no real guidelines I believe. It's not the best situation as we would all like to still have free rein to decide who treats our horses but it also at least is not a definitely an end to being able to use equine dentist. Good luck with your horses.