Silver Dun or Silver Dunskin?

[mshasta88]

I know and understand my colors and genetics very very well but I wanted to see what you all think about my colt before I send in his hair for cream gene testing.

I’m 100% sure he is dun and 100% sure his is silver but I’m not so sure if he is cream. His dam is a silver dunskin so there is a possibility for cream.

So let’s see what everyone thinks. Respond with Silver Dun or Silver Dunskin?

 

[Mona]

He looks to be a typical dun pinto and I am not even sure about the silver. One time I think he looks like no silver, but then he does look a little greyish in the black portion of his mane.

 

[mshasta88]

Yes Mona, I actually wasn't sure about the silver until about a month ago when he was 2 months old. It is dark but for sure silver.

 

[PaintNminis]

Out of the two Choices I would say Silver Dun no Cream he doesn't look light enough

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Do you know for certain (has she been tested for silver and the cream gene) that his dam is a silver dunskin? Silver has no visible affect on red which is the base coat on a buckskin. The only way you can tell silver on a buckskin is on the mane and tail. It would be 'frosty.' Silver only affects black points or a black body. What color is his sire? Have you used the color calculator to see what the percentages are of your boys color possibilities? Without seeing the horse in person I wouldn't hazard a guess...

Here are some websites that will help:

http://www.mustangs4us.com/Horse%20Colors/dun_or_buckskin.htm

http://grullablue.com/colors/dun_factor_markings.htm

http://www.horse-genetics.com/silver-dapple.html

I have been studying color genetics for several years and am absolutely amazed and astonished by the beautiful combinations you can arrive at with the dilution genes...

Here are our dilutes:

Rohan: silver black stallion that is a chocolate (taffy) with light, almost flaxen mane and tail.

Bella: silver dapple filly that is the color of platinum

Freckles: silver bay homozygous tobiano broodmare who looks just like a regular blood red bay tobiano horse but instead of black mane and tail, she has a frosty mane and tail

Concho: smoky grulla stallion who is homozygous black with a splash gene

Casper: cremello stallion

Wind: Smoky black splash filly

Annie: Smoky black homozygous tobiano broodmare

Bottom line: I would test to be sure.

Kari

We also have several horses with sabino, splash, overo and tovero. I've studied the white patterns extensively as well.

Kari

 

[mshasta88]

Do you know for certain (has she been tested for silver and the cream gene) that his dam is a silver dunskin? Silver has no visible affect on red which is the base coat on a buckskin. The only way you can tell silver on a buckskin is on the mane and tail. It would be 'frosty.' Silver only affects black points or a black body. What color is his sire? Have you used the color calculator to see what the percentages are of your boys color possibilities? Without seeing the horse in person I wouldn't hazard a guess...

 

Here are some websites that will help:

 

http://www.mustangs4...or_buckskin.htm

 

http://grullablue.co...or_markings.htm

 

http://www.horse-gen...ver-dapple.html

 

I have been studying color genetics for several years and am absolutely amazed and astonished by the beautiful combinations you can arrive at with the dilution genes...

 

Here are our dilutes:

Rohan: silver black stallion that is a chocolate (taffy) with light, almost flaxen mane and tail.

Bella: silver dapple filly that is the color of platinum

Freckles: silver bay homozygous tobiano broodmare who looks just like a regular blood red bay tobiano horse but instead of black mane and tail, she has a frosty mane and tail

Concho: smoky grulla stallion who is homozygous black with a splash gene

Casper: cremello stallion

Wind: Smoky black splash filly

Annie: Smoky black homozygous tobiano broodmare

 

Bottom line: I would test to be sure.

 

Kari

 

We also have several horses with sabino, splash, overo and tovero. I've studied the white patterns extensively as well.

 

Kari

I know my color genetics inside and out and have even considered doing my masters thesis on it. I have seen all of the dams foals and own two of them and I know the stallion they are all out of so I know that she is for sure a silver dunskin. Genetic testing can be bypassed in horses with multiple foals. I just wanted members opinions before I tested him. Kind of like a game to see who’s right.



I know 100% that he is silver and dun. When he was a newborn the silver (in is mane and tail) was almost not visible but it has grown out silver. Also he shows ALL the primitive dun characteristics. His full sister is the same way where I can't tell if she is silver dun or silver dunskin because there mom is so obviously silver dunskin. I added a picture of his full sister as well. Again I know for cretin that she is silver and dun but the cream is questionable.



These foals are out of Abrias Signature Buckeroo who appears to be a brown base so maybe that is why these foals are darker then there mom provided they have cream?

 

[mshasta88]

Out of the two Choices I would say Silver Dun no Cream he doesn't look light enough

I thinking the same Tonny, I can't way to get his hair in. I would love it if he didn't have cream

I would love it if he wasn't silver too but I think its tell late to ask his mommy not to give me a silver baby hahaha

 

[Wings]

Do you know for certain (has she been tested for silver and the cream gene) that his dam is a silver dunskin? Silver has no visible affect on red which is the base coat on a buckskin. The only way you can tell silver on a buckskin is on the mane and tail. It would be 'frosty.' Silver only affects black points or a black body.

But the base coat of a buckskin is bay (black and agouti)

 

[Magic Marker Minis]

Bay body color is red.

 

[minifreishorsefarm]

Bay body color is red.

?? Bay is black with agouti. Red is sorrel, palomino or red dun (and liver chestnut?). Bay has nothing to do with red body color so not sure what you're saying here??

Marsha

 

[chandab]

Here are a couple pics of my silver bay dun mare; one as a foal, and one more current (she looks almost palomino):





She DNA color tested EE, Aa, no cream (silver and dun weren't available at the time I tested); she has dorsal, leg bars, face mask, and all are hard to see on her lighter coat.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

He looks to be a straight Bay Dun Pinto to me and there is NO way to know anything "for sure" about colour genetics without testing, even with multiple foals. A Pinto can throw 100 Pinto foals, never a solid, and still not be H/Z- so , without testing you just cannot know for sure. The 101st foal could be solid!!

I think both Silver and Cream have by passed this one and I would advise you to test before getting testy, as you may have to eat your words. If you are really considering doing a masters in colour /pattern genetics then you really do need to have an open mind......

 

[cretahillsgal]

Just going by the pictures you posted I would say he is just plain buckskin pinto.

But if you know he carries dun and silver for sure, then I would go with silver dunskin.

 

[mshasta88]

Thank you Julie for keeping this fun and simple. It was never my intentions for this discussion to question anyone’s color genetic abilities. So let’s please not continue on with this for the sack of everyone.

I really wanted it to be like a voting game, because as I said in my initial post, I AM sending his hair in for cream.

These photos were taken by my phone so I apologize. I understand they can be misleading even to a trained eye but what looks like black hair is actually a chocolate color (hence the silver gene) I am sorry for those of you who had to hear me say it a third time. I also confirmed his dun with true leg barring.

And thank you Canadab for the pictures, I had filly like her years ago what a beautiful horse

 

[chandab]

And thank you Chandab for the pictures, I had filly like her years ago what a beautiful horse

Thank you. I love Tana, she's a Hilltops Little Vegas granddaughter.

 

[ohmt]

I agree with rabbitsfizz. You asked for opinion based on the pictures you posted so that's what we have to go by. I would say plain bay dun as well based on the pictures, but if you are adament about the silver, please don't feel the need to say it a fourth time, lest you feel even more sorry for us.

 

[minifreishorsefarm]

Does he have a dorsal stripe? He looks just like our zebra dun colt born last year. The chocolate color of the mane is most likely from the dun gene, it puts frosting and lightens the body as well as the mane. I personally cant see silver but that doesnt mean its not there, its just hard to tell by the pics.

And I agree, you dont need to get snarky because you dont agree with some opinions. You ask for opinions, you're gonna get them, like them or not.

My theory is always to test, especially for cream, there is no way to know if he has the cream gene as well unless he has no dorsal stripe. If no dorsal, then I say for sure a dunskin.

Marsha

 

[mshasta88]

Yes there is a dorsal stripe

Can we please stick to a vote. That was all I asked for in my initial post.

I truly wanted this to be a fun game and I will post the results when I get them.

 

[chandab]

Based on the pics posted, I see plain bay dun (maybe regular buckskin), I just don't see silver at work (its probably the lighting in the pics). What ever the color, for sure very cute.

 

[minifreishorsefarm]

Yes there is a dorsal stripe

Can we please stick to a vote. That was all I asked for in my initial post.

I truly wanted this to be a fun game and I will post the results when I get them.

Ok, with dorsal stripe I vote zebra dun. No cream and no silver

Marsha