Red Bag Delivery

[IllusiveHussler]

I had a girl PM me her concerns about my mare Lucy. She said a red bag delivery could be possible. I've read about them but I figured I'd read up on them more.

One article is written by a lady who's friend had two red bag deliveries and after the 2nd one the vet recommended putting the mare on SMZ or Metronidazol 1 month prior to the foaling date.

Even though we don't know when Lucy is due she is starting to bag up(started yesterday) and I figured I'd ask my vet about putting Lucy on them soon...Do you think this is a good idea?

I have a bottle of SMZ already from Fiona's abortion(I won't adminster them until I talk with my vet and she gives me a dose, if she decides we should use them)...And Lucy is my free animal at the vet so the med costs aren't bad...

Has anyone had experience with red bags and/or using meds a month prior to foaling to reduce the risk?

We are setting up a barn cam. It will be up and running in the next few days. Lucy is under a close eye at all times. She is checked everyday for any changes in behavior or appearance.

 

[jdhand]

I don't think red bag is something predictable. I would just watch on the camera and when you see the baby coming just make sure and take the bag off it's face and help to get the baby out right away. Red bag is when the placenta breaks to soon. I have had several years with babies and have never had a red bag delivery. I have had other things happen, but hot red bag. I may be wrong about it, but I think all you have to worry about is the baby getting oxygen throught it nose and mouth quickly because it is not getting oxygen from the mother throught the placenta.

 

[IllusiveHussler]

Here's the link to the article I read about the SMZs being used...

http://www.ramblinroseranch.com/red%20bag.htm

 

[Becky]

Personally, I do use SMZ's if I think a mare may redbag or otherwise have a placental infection.

I had a mare redbag last year unexpectedly. After she foaled, I put her on SMZ's for 10 days and will do so again this year before she foals.

You might want to discuss this with your vet.

 

[IllusiveHussler]

Becky,

How many SMZs did you give a day for your mini? Twice a day? Once a day?

 

[Dream]

A red bag means the foal is not getting oxygen from the mare so it must get out quickly. This is why you have to break the red bag and help pull the foal out. Just taking the sack off it's head isn't enough since the chest can't expand when the foal's torso is still in the birth canal.

 

[hhpminis]

Dream is correct that the foal has to get completely out so its lungs can expand and get air.

If you think of the outside of the placenta as if it was velcro. The more velcro that is separated the less oxygen the foal gets.

Red Bag is not the premature breaking of the placenta but the exact opposite. The placenta does not break at all and starts to separate from the uterus while being delivered with the foal, thus coming detached and not supplying the foal with oxygen through the birthing process.

The only way for a red bag foal to survive is to be present at birth, tear or cut the placenta, and then tear the white bag and pull the foal out as quickly as possible. Pull down towards the mares hocks rather than straight out or up.

As far as the SMZ's, I have heard great things about treatment the last 30 days of gestation. I have never tried it but have discussed it with my vet and she is not opposed to it.

 

[jdhand]

I learned alot reading all of this. Also the link with the article was very good. Thanks everybody. I feel somewhat better educated, but I sure don't want to have to go through this. I have about 15 broodmares, so I am sure one day it will happen and I will know a little better what to do.

 

[hhpminis]

Dinda

I have had a few red bags, all of them have made it as viable healthy foals. Being there is the key.

I also, as soon as the mare is definitely in labor, will reach in to check position. If I feel a rough sand paper type bag, I know it is placenta and not amniotic bag, as the amniotic bag is smooth and silky. I do not wait for the red bubble to appear rather than a white bubble. I will break the placenta with my finger at that point. If you do not understand the difference though do not break it until you see it. Also, a red bag delivery, you will not see water break as it is still contained in the placenta. Just a couple helpful hints.

During foaling season, if I have to go to a show and my husband is home I always make him repeat to me, "White wait. Red, tear and pull."

We had two years in a row that for whatever reason we had red bags, the first year we had 3 and the second only 1. We started not allowing our mares in pasture the last 60 days before foaling just in case there was something in our pasture that could be causing the thickening of the placenta. Have not had one since but the possiblility is always there and it is better to understand and be prepared for any type of dystocia. We checked our pasture very carefully and found some mustard weed. We sprayed and have not noticed any now but still keep the mares off pasture late in pregnancy.

 

[Becky]

Becky,How many SMZs did you give a day for your mini? Twice a day? Once a day?

I give 2 - 3 depending upon the weight of the mare twice a day. Again, this is something that you might want to discuss with your vet. As has been mentioned in other replies, red bag has other causes that might not be infection as such, possibly fescue or other known problems.

 

[IllusiveHussler]

I know what red bag is and I've been reading up on it as a refreshner...I just wanted to know if anybody used meds to help with preventing red bag like in the article.

But thank you all for your help. I never administer meds to either of my horses with out consulting my vet(there's just so much that can go wrong) so I will be talking with my vet this week, or my mom will, which ever one of us sees her first.

Thanks again!

Oh...and my mom has been e-mailing with the owner of Milligan's Run(I think that's the farm name) and they own www.marestare.com and she's helping us with a few things. She says she uses herbs and things like that to reduce the risk of red bag and such and it's been working great for her.

Anybody know anymore about this?

 

[wildoak]

So much depends on the cause of the redbag, but in the event it's caused by a placental infection, giving SMZ's has apparently fixed the problem with some of my mares. We've had 3-4 mares who redbagged, one 3 years in a row. All live, healthy foals although one has always been pretty "slow" mentally and I do wonder if she was deprived of a little oxygen. I've never had one redbag when on SMZ, although I know others who have so it's by no means a sure thing.

Jan