Re-using sale horse pictures

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

(Btw, if I were told up front I could not use prior pictures of a horse I was thinking of buying -- I'd change my mind. All it takes is ONE red flag, and I'm no longer interested.)

You know Jill after I answered I went back and read everyone elses thoughts and I couldnt agree more with this.

Itmight not mean anything at all but somehow it would send out a flag to me both before and really while it would be to late after a sale. If a owner was proud enough to breed/purchase a horse and put those pics on there site.. I would have to wonder why would they be afraid someone else might recognize-

Now that may not be the case at all but.. I have to say honestly that is where my head would go pretty much right away

 

[Minimor]

I had another thought on this--I know that if a horse I sold were to later come up for sale (or even if it's just being shown off on the buyer's website--or if it happens to be resold again & is now on the website of its 3rd owner) I would much rather see a good photo of mine used than to have a really poor photo used--particularly if the horse carries my prefix.

I've seen horses on the saleboard that friends of mine raised & sold--nice horses that look really awful in the photos used--in one case the friend that raised that particular horse was very upset, not because the horse was being resold, but because the seller was using such awful photos.

I get the impression that in the case mentioned in the original post here, the main issue is the fact that the horse is being resold now. Previous owner and the photographer/friend want to fuss about photos mainly because of that.

Like someone else said above, as a buyer I would want to see current pictures, but I'd still like to see any past photos too. Even if I was buying an aged broodmare that is all sprung out and potty not, it would be nice to see her slim & trim show photos from 5 or 6 years ago.

 

[HGFarm]

Life is too short- pick your battles. I would not waste time on this one.

Also, just because you took a photo, does not mean it is copyrighted. That is something you have to file for with a government agency to have exclusive rights to those pics.

 

[susanne]

Also, just because you took a photo, does not mean it is copyrighted. Also, just because you took a photo, does not mean it is copyrighted.

Actually, that is not true. To quote from the Library of Congress website:

"The absence of a copyright notice does not mean that there is no copyright. Copyright protection exists automatically from the moment of creation in a tangible fixed form, which is generally considered to include electronic form. A notice is not required to protect copyright."

And the fact that you took the photos for someone else does not nullify your rights.

However...

While you would be within your legal rights, is it really worth your time to fight this? The ill will generated is not worth the gain.

 

[nootka]

Here is my feeling about it:

I don't mind when someone wants to use my photos for promoting the horse they bought from me. I do mind if they are using them for sale ads unless it is a recent sale to the purchase from me (as in the pics are current and good examples of what the horse looks like).

I wouldnt' say anything either way, as susanne mentioned, it's probably not worth the time to make a fuss about. I just feel badly for the other shoppers if something has changed drastically about the horse and they're seeing "old" and outdated pics.

Here's my experience:

I owned a cremello mare. One day to get her pics for her reg. papers, we bathed her and cleaned her for about three hours...we live in a very muddy climate and she was just brown from the dust and dirt in her coat. We showsheened her and groomed her and took about 200 digital pics from all angles b/c I was getting them for her perm. A papers also for possible sale.

She was in great condition.

I sold her to a lady that Winter. The pics were on her reg. papers also posted in the ad where I sold her.

Four and six years later, these same photos I took so long ago are used for sales ads by a breeder that does NOT take care of their horses. The mare hasn't grown or changed any as she was five at the time, but when I saw her at this farm in '03, she was a skeleton. The photos I took show a healthy, clean horse w/no problems. I saw her 2 years after I sold her and I can hardly believe she's alive, but I KNOW this mare does NOT look like she did in those photos, and whoever would buy her off of those photos would be in for a rude surprise (this person sells over the internet a lot.) It bothers me a lot, but more for the fact that they are being used for deception. In my case, the pics are part of her reg. papers and so must be the property of the new owner.

I guess what I'm saying is that most sellers would want to provide recent pictures anyway, but if they do use yours, it would be great if they asked permission. Next of all, if all else is fine, just look the other way and shake your head and move on. There's far worse transgressions happening around us.

Liz M.

 

[Gena]

We have always given the pictures with the horse. People have always done that for us too. Its nice to have pictures of when they were younger, in shows, and as they grow and change through the years. I know it has meant a lot to our buyers and us to have them. We keep duplicate pictures of the horses we sold for our memories too.

 

[Magic]

nm

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

If you were MY photographer and got this petty about pictures of a horse that I later sold, I'd never hire you again. When I sell a horse, the pictures go with it as a package deal. Hard copies, email copies, whatever the customer wants if I have it.

You asked for opinions, so there is mine.

Unless you have a sole copywrite that's illegal. Many photographers retain the copywrite, and give YOU, the client that paid them, the ability to use them however you like. If someone else wanted that right the fee is sometimes upwards of $100 per photo, for digital rights. So to give the pictures to someone without the professional photographer's permission is a rather large blow to a professional's income.

I asked permission before using my horse's foal pictures (him as a foal, not his foals) and permission was happily granted, as long as they were REposted rather than "stolen" from their website (bandwidth theft). I used the sales picture that I bought my horse with until I had the chance to have new ones taken.

 

[Paige]

Thanks all for your opinions, I'm just going to let it go! I guess what irked me was that I spent a lot of time and effort to help a friend sell this horse by clipping, bathing and taking pictures of the horse and now a complete stranger is reaping the rewards. Also I can tell from the wording of this person's ad that she isn't going to be totally upfront about this mare to people ( for example the mare sounds kid safe in her ad but after having this mare at my house all summer, I'd disagree) and I guess that was part of what set me off as I know my friend was very honest about any issues this horse has and almost reluctant to sell to this individual. Hopefully this horse will go on to a better home and maybe having decent pictures will help with this, but I'm afraid that she may just may become one of those horses that goes from home to home.

 

[HGFarm]

Paige I sure understand your frustration and it's sad to watch them resold when you thought they had a good home. (We have a couple of people in the state here that do that continually- some are for sale before they even arrive at their farm or the day they step off the truck here!!! Their opinion on that is that they never told the people they weren't going to resell them right away!!)

Hopefully the mare will find someone who understands her and will be kind to her.

 

[Bluerocket]

I would have no problem with this at all.

If I sold the horse, it is theirs to resell or keep.

I usually give the photos to buyers --- and they can use them as they wish.

JJay

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well I would have to add I guess if I wasnt the breeder I might not feel this way however. If I was the breeder of the horse that is being re-sold.. I sure would prefer to send them my pictures that I felt were decent or good then risk them taking HORRIBLE pictures and posting them all over the place with my farm name there

 

[bfogg]

If my pictures would help a little horse find a great home I would let them use a hundred of my pictures!!

Especially a forever home think how great that would make you feel!

:

I would feel quite proud!

:

Hugs

Bonnie

 

[susanne]

It is important to consider this issue before using any photo that you did not take --

Although images can be easily accessed on the internet, in most cases the photographer still holds the copyright. The consequences can range from being asked to remove it all the way to a lawsuit.

Always ask permission to use it, even if you're pretty sure it is okay. Even better, get it in writing.