Question for Appaloosa Breeders

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triplethorsefarm

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My question is how do you produce the leopard and blanket patterns consistently? I have heard a handful of different theories but would like to hear from those who have successful breeding programs. I have heard using a leopard or blanket stallion with only solid colored mares will produce colorful foals, I have also heard both parents must have appy characteristics. What would you look for in an appy stallion, in addition to quality conformation, that will give you loud foals? Thanks in advance!
 
Your best bet for loud appy foals is appaloosa to appaloosa crosses, especially those using a few spot leopard or snowcap, but even then there is absolutely no guarantee you're going to get that loud color.. I think the appaloosas has to be one of (if not THE) hardest pattern to breed. There's such a wide range of pattern variety/degree, and there's always the possibility of them changing as they age!

If I was looking for a new appy stallion, I would look for one (aside from conformation, temperament etc) that is either a few spot or snowcap, as those two would be my best bet (since both are believed to be homozygous), would also look for one that is heavily appaloosa bred (meaning majority/all horses in pedigree are appaloosa (visual appaloosas would be best too), and also one that was out of/sired by visual appaloosas.. I'd also steer clear of ones that are varnish roan, while the varnish gene helps give wild changes, it can at times wash out the color/pattern on some horses..

Just my opinion
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I'm sure those with bigger breeding programs and who have been with the apps longer have much more input.. I gave the appies a try and while I do love a good patterned (especially the leopards) appy, I'm no longer breeding apps and sticking to my pintos
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My personal experience with getting the colors you want is to get a FEW SPOT with good leopard appaloosa background and cross him with solid mares. I have a few spot appaloosa stallion who's sire AND dam are both loud leopards and I cross him with my best non appaloosa mares-out of 16 foals he has given me leopards, near leopards, blankets, extended blankets, and then a couple of varnish appy fillies that I have kept to cross with my leopard appaloosa stallion. I just love my few spot because I can breed him to any mare and an appaloosa foal is guaranteed.

I used to own a snowcap stallion back in the day and he gave me 100% appy as well BUT they were all born solid and then eventually varnished out. Not one was born loud. I kept one daughter and cross her with few spots for loud foals though. one of his daughters that I sold was solid up until she was about 5 when I sold her-she then got the mottling and a few snowflake spots. Last year her new owner got a loud pintaloosa colt with big spots-the colt's sire was a pinto, no appaloosa breeding.

Breeding appaloosas is kind of a crap shoot-you never know what you're going to get. At least with a few spot you know you'll have appy characteristics no matter what. The appaloosas have come a LONG way the past few years and people are staying away from the quarter horse, big jaw, thick type that used to be so common-people want appaloosas that can be competitive showing in halter, driving, color classes. My suggestion is to buy appaloosas with the conformation that meet today's standards and go from there-don't really focus on patterns.
 
At the moment there is no way to ensure that you get a specific pattern, none.

Using a Fewspot will guarantee you a spotted foal, or at least a foal with spotted characteristics, but it will rarely, if ever, guarantee you a specific pattern. As there is no test for Appy and everything at the moment is just educated conjecture, basically, your guess is just about as good as anyone else's!
 
Above statements are true, there is NO WAY to get a specific pattern... you breed and hope you get color period, LOL Some seem to have stronger genes they pass on than others. If you breed a leopard to a non Appy solid mare, you have just cut your chances of getting color in half.

Worry about conformation first- make sure the horse is a good horse. I tell everyone to look at them like they are all plain brown. Look at the horse itself. If it was plain brown, would you still buy it? Is it breeding quality?

And yes, if you can find a fewspot, fewcap or snowcap, of QUALITY, you are in luck, but they seem to be extremely hard to find. However, like it was mentioned above, you have NO control over what pattern you might get, but you will get Appy 99% of the time with a fewspot. Keep in mind also, that the stats that have been compiled on 'color' also includes those just born with characteristics and no coat pattern yet.

In the Minis, I dont know why, but the snowcaps seem to carry an extremly strong roaning gene and all roan out. Never had this with the full size or POA's like what I see in the Minis.

Also I think if you stick with patterns for breeding stock that have a definite spotted pattern- blanket with spots, leopards, near leopards, etc... maybe the roan gene will not be so strong??

Like breeding for pinto coloration.... there is no guarantee at all what type of pattern or how much you will get, LOL
 
As others have mentioned there is no "sure fire" way to get the patterns. Of course breeding appy to appy is best, but not many mini people do that (they more often breed appy to solid or solid that was appy bred).

The inconsistency is what I find so fun about the appaloosas, you breed and you hope and cross your fingers. And then the anticipation as that foal is being born... legs nothing, nose/head nothing, shoulders nothing... hips SPOTS!
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I like knowing what the base color will be or could be (by color testing the parents), but I love the surprise of what pattern comes out. It's just soo much more exciting and delighting when you do get a leopard or blanket, it wouldn't be nearly as exciting or fun if you knew it would happen every time! Of course I breed for conformation first, so the solid or appy roan foals are just as nice to me as the spots.
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Oh Kim, I could not agree more.... I am surprized I have not passed out from lack of oxygen during foaling, waiting to see the entire baby arrive!! However it is exciting enough to see the stripes on the front feet as it begins to arrive- and then the final unveiling!!

Conformation, no matter what color you breed for, should always come first. The spots are a plus! A beautiful athletic horse will always sell, no matter if it's black, dun or purple with green polka dots, LOL.
 
Well, I'll put my two cents in here too! LOL Before getting into miniatures, I raised big appaloosas. Our big stallion was out of a quarter horse mare and by an appy stallion. He had a large blanket with spots and sired 85% 'color-at-birth' foals! He actually sired louder colored foals when bred to solid, appy-bred mares. Having said that, we purchased a miniature snowcap appy stallion (from Lucky C Acres) that we are breeding with for the first time this year. He is bred to two solid mares and a pintaloosa mare. We will be anxious to see what he can produce!

While I'm posting, I'd like to take this opportunity to have you visit our 'new' website! www.palsminiaturehorses.com

Pam C.
 
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Neither of my appies that I know the background on even got spots until age 3. Now they continue to change year after year. Appies are a crap shoot.
 
Well, you can guarantee appy if you breed fewspot to fewspot!
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Other than that go figure. I have a pintaloosa stallion I'm breeding (FINALLY this year) to 2 tobianos and a Happy Appy granddaughter with characteristics who is starting to snowflake out. No guarantees on anything with any of these crosses, but since he carries 4 pinto patterns and appy, I'll eat my shirt if I get a solid baby.
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Well, you can guarantee appy if you breed fewspot to fewspot!
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Other than that go figure. I have a pintaloosa stallion I'm breeding (FINALLY this year) to 2 tobianos and a Happy Appy granddaughter with characteristics who is starting to snowflake out. No guarantees on anything with any of these crosses, but since he carries 4 pinto patterns and appy, I'll eat my shirt if I get a solid baby.
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Me too - DRK What's the Buzz is a snowcap pintoloosa, with Tobiano, splash, sabino! He's been out with a blanket mare, a leopard, 2 solids and a pintoloosa... if I don't get color from those crosses I'll choke! <grin>

Appy (blanket) is out with a blanket, 2 leopards (1 with tobiano, I think), 2 solids. I'm getting pretty colors with him, as well as his incredible movement and great proportions!
 
Well, you can guarantee appy if you breed fewspot to fewspot!
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Other than that go figure. I have a pintaloosa stallion I'm breeding (FINALLY this year) to 2 tobianos and a Happy Appy granddaughter with characteristics who is starting to snowflake out. No guarantees on anything with any of these crosses, but since he carries 4 pinto patterns and appy, I'll eat my shirt if I get a solid baby.
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All our foals this year are by our pintaloosa stallion. We got pintos out of a solid mare and out of an appaloosa mare.......and we got a nice blanket w/spots colt out of a solid mare with no appy breeding. Go figure! Like most have already said, it's a crap shoot! But it's sure fun to see what colors you get!
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The surest way I have found to guarantee color patterns is to sell a mare bred! But alas, this year I bought an appy mare and wahla...a leopard colt! I have pretty much concluded that most of us appy breeders are pretty stubborn people and will wait it out til the next foaling season! Lavonne
 
The surest way I have found to guarantee color patterns is to sell a mare bred! But alas, this year I bought an appy mare and wahla...a leopard colt! I have pretty much concluded that most of us appy breeders are pretty stubborn people and will wait it out til the next foaling season! Lavonne
LOL! So true. And sure fire way to get your characteristic horse to spot out - sell it! The grulla in my avatar was totally solid expect for mottling... until I got her. Now I need newer pics, but I clipped her this year and she has like 10-15 white spots all over and a bunch of white mixing in her coat. Horses wrote Murphy's Law, I'm sure of it.
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LOL Lavonne!! That is for sure- just sell them and they will produce lovely loud colored babies for the new owners. I think the hair proteins change as the money changes hands from buyer to seller and that is what makes the spots. That is my scientific explanation anyhow. My story and I'm stickin' to it.
 
LOL Lavonne!! That is for sure- just sell them and they will produce lovely loud colored babies for the new owners. I think the hair proteins change as the money changes hands from buyer to seller and that is what makes the spots. That is my scientific explanation anyhow. My story and I'm stickin' to it.

Last year I bought a 5 year old solid sorrel app bred mare. This year this mare has about 20 or 30 quarter size white spots
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