Preliminary Post Mortem Results

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Matt73

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I called Guelph two days ago for an update on Royal's autopsy (gosh that sounds odd and sad to me
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) and got some good/bad news. He said that nothing has shown up so far in culture. No parasites, salmonella, clostrodium difficile, etc. But, reading on Wikipedia it can be hard to pin down a cause and we may never know...I said good and bad because he said it's nothing contagious, but I'd still like to know what caused it.

"To date, the precise causative factor has not been verified, and the disease has been attributed by various sources to viruses, parasites, bacteria, use of antibiotics and sulfonamides and heavy metal poisoning.[2][3][1] Other possible causes include peracute salmonellosis, clostridial enterocolitis, and endotoxemia.[1] Of interest is that Clostridium difficile toxins isolated in the horse have a genotype that is also that of the current human "epidemic strain," which is associated with human C. difficile-associated disease of greater than historical severity.[4] C.difficile can cause pseudomembranous colitis in humans,[5] and in hospitalized patients who develop it, fulminant C. difficile colitis is a significant and increasing cause of death.[6]

 

Horses under stress appear to be more susceptible to developing colitis X.[2] Disease onset is often closely associated with surgery or transport.[1] Excess protein and lack of cellulose content in the diet (a diet heavy on grain and lacking adequate hay or similar roughage) is thought to be the trigger for the multiplication of clostridial organisms.[3] A similar condition may be seen after administration of tetracycline or lincomycin to horses.[1] These factors may be one reason the condition often develops in race horses, having been responsible for the deaths of the Thoroughbred filly Landaluce,[7][8] the Quarter Horse stallion Lightning Bar,[9] and is one theory for the sudden death of Kentucky Derby winner Swale.[7]

 

The link to stress suggests that the condition may be brought on by changes in the microflora of the cecum and colon that lower the number of anaerobic bacteria, increase the number of gram-negative enteric bacteria, and decrease anaerobic fermentation of soluble carbohydrates, resulting in damage to the cecal and colonic mucosa and allowing increased absorption of endotoxins from the lumen of the gut.[10]" (Wikipedia)
 
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Matt - I am sorry for your loss. This topic caught my eye and just wanted to say that we have gone through a similar situation on the loss of 2 of our horses about a year apart. Tests were performed for C. diff and salmonella for ours too. The first necropsy performed at the University of Tennessee revealed pretty much nothing, other than possibly Banamine could have contributed to her demise (I was using it under the direction of our vet from Tuesday evening until Friday evening - she was fine Saturday and suddenly died early Sunday morning). The second horse's necropsy done by the Tennessee State Lab, revealed nothing as well. Our current vet even exhumed the horse to get some fecal matter from her intestines to send to a lab in Lexington, Kentucky to see if salmonella was present, but that was negative. We never got any answers as to why the two mares died. We subsequently switched our feeding program (no more Born to Win) and went to Triple Crown feeds, got rid of our fowl and roped off our pond. We have had no problems in over 3 years, knock wood. I did look over the lab work done on the horses at the time they became ill and found their calcium levels were low - something I read about a while ago here on the forum.

I hope time heals your heart and that you are able to get some answers.

Tam
 
Matt, I must have missed your post about Royal, I have not been on here much this summer. I am soooo sorry to hear of your loss, very sad.
 
Matt - I am sorry for your loss. This topic caught my eye and just wanted to say that we have gone through a similar situation on the loss of 2 of our horses about a year apart. Tests were performed for C. diff and salmonella for ours too. The first necropsy performed at the University of Tennessee revealed pretty much nothing, other than possibly Banamine could have contributed to her demise (I was using it under the direction of our vet from Tuesday evening until Friday evening - she was fine Saturday and suddenly died early Sunday morning). The second horse's necropsy done by the Tennessee State Lab, revealed nothing as well. Our current vet even exhumed the horse to get some fecal matter from her intestines to send to a lab in Lexington, Kentucky to see if salmonella was present, but that was negative. We never got any answers as to why the two mares died. We subsequently switched our feeding program (no more Born to Win) and went to Triple Crown feeds, got rid of our fowl and roped off our pond. We have had no problems in over 3 years, knock wood. I did look over the lab work done on the horses at the time they became ill and found their calcium levels were low - something I read about a while ago here on the forum.

I hope time heals your heart and that you are able to get some answers.

Tam
Thanks, Tam. Sorry about your horses, too. Awful thing to have happen.

I really think it has something to do with bird feces. We don't have any chickens or other foul here. But lots of Robins and Grackles around and fledgings. And they defecate on the grass, of course. My suspicion is that he ate the wrong blade of grass or leaf coming from the paddock (my guys are on a dry lot and only get a munch of grass to and from there). That, coupled with some other stressor perhaps (although, I can't think what...He never stepped foot off the property and was a happy-go-lucky boy). I'm just happy that my girls are fine and that it's not contagious.
 
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Matt

Again, I am so sorry for you loss - I truly know how you feel. I lost a mare a couple of years ago to the same issue - she was at Unversity of Ohio and in as little as 24 hours was dead and we were never able to complete diagnose what caused the onset of the colitis - sadly, it seems that "it just happens" and no matter how hard we try, there are just some horses that are going to be predisposed to "catching" something and another horse who is in exactly the same living conditions does not get sick.

It is frustrating, and maddening, but it is apparently "the way it is".

I know that this doesn't allay any of your feelings, but please let yourself heal - you did everything right, and for some reason "something just went wrong"

Stacy
 
Have they tested for Coccidiosis?

It is a prevalent condition that we deal with in the cattle here. It is caused by something in the bird droppings. And ususally from the birds getting in/pooping in the drinking water. It causes depression, bad diahreah, and dehydration.

Though I have not had problems with it with the horses here yet, I have seen it in pigs, cattle, sheep and goats.
 
Again, Matt, I am so sorry for your loss... I had a mare years ago who had similar symptoms to what you described and it ended up being intestinal lymphoma. Not sure if it's too late for your vet to see if that was the cause... again, I am so sorry...
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Liz R.
 
Thanks everyone. Yes, they checked for coccidiosis, too. Negative. Stacy, we are healing. I know that he's in a good place. I just wish we had bred him to Lexus earlier (we couldn't for other reasons) as we were teasing when that happened; it would be nice to have a little bit of him in Lex right now. Guelph sent me his braided forelock and a braided section of his tail. I'm going to get a shadow box and make an homage to my little man
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Life goes on, though. We have been blessed with beautiful puppies and Lex is being bred to a beautiful boy, Triple K's Double Your Destiny. I think they'll make a great foal. So 2011, hopefully, will be a year full of only life
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Oh Matt,

I missed your post about Royal also - I'm so very sorry
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Matt,

I understand your wanting to find answers, I truly do. (Have had a couple of really rough losses like Royal's is for you.) We did the necropsy route as well....several times over the years.....and have NEVER received a definite result.

But Royal's Spirit lives on in many ways. I know you know that.

Blessings,

Ma---
 
Sorry again Matt and I know at least having an answer also brings a little better closure to it, but that is not always possible. That sounds like a great idea to make a shadow box!
 
Matt- I'm so sorry that no answer was found. Over a 12 month period, I lost three mares to colitis X. We even tested for Potomac Horse Fever; everything was negative/inconclusive. Two of the mares were pregnant (one maiden, one proven) and one was 6 weeks post foaling (fifth foal). Believe me, the third mare was necropsied to the hilt, with tissues sent to A&M and UC Davis.

Time helps.
 
Matt- I'm so sorry that no answer was found. Over a 12 month period, I lost three mares to colitis X. We even tested for Potomac Horse Fever; everything was negative/inconclusive. Two of the mares were pregnant (one maiden, one proven) and one was 6 weeks post foaling (fifth foal). Believe me, the third mare was necropsied to the hilt, with tissues sent to A&M and UC Davis.

Time helps.

That's awful. I'm so sorry.
 
Matt I'm so sorry you lost your boy. I know how much you loved him.

Like Tam I also experienced this unidentified sickness. I almost lost my palomino mare Tweet, but I went against my vets wishes took her off the antibotic and gave her 35cc of double strength pepto bismal and 35cc of kaolin 3 times a day and by day 3 she had firmed back up. All my horses now have a clay lick, made out of kaolin clay. Funny too they all lick them, before I noticed they were eating dirt they don't do that anymore. Even Dr. Oz uses it for humans he calls it bentonite clay, kaolin is in the same family, I just found kaolin works better, I tried both. If you ever have a horse go off feed and you suspect stomach upset try the kaolin you can get it at TSC, in my horses they are back to eating within 45 minutes. I keep telling myself the next time it happens I'm going to video tape it because its hard to believe unless you see it for yourself. Oh I also had my horses tested for EVERYTHING and they found NOTHING. I think with pregnant mares they go quicker because the bacteria or whatever it is kills the fetus first which just adds to the mares bacteria load. Does any of your horses have any type of skin issues or what looks like an allergic reaction to bug bites, maybe a little patch of hair missing etc.?

I hope they eventually find out what this is. I know of many horses that have died from it.
 
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