Prefix-Farm Name-%%%%%%

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LaVern

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I am going to pick Buckeye for an example because I love Getitias horses. Okay- so I buy a Buckeye stallion and a Buckeye mare. I breed them and get a colt which I name Lucky Harts Super King. Is Super King 100 % Buckeye?

Now I breed Lucky Harts Super King to a Lucky Harts Maria Lover. And they produce a foal. Is that horse 100% Lucky Hart Horse? And pooff there goes Buckeye.

I guess what I think, is that the percentages should go on the horse itself and not the Farm name.

When I think of all the horses that I wish I had never put my farm name on.(100%ers) I don't put our name on anything that I don't like anymore. Really, I think this farm name thing is kind of nuts. Lucky Hart -Lucky Tart- who cares? It is the horse in the pedigree that matters. But I suppose I'll keep using the prefix for advertising because that is what we do.

I remember Mrs. Barett saying that she gave away lots of horses, but I don't know if she put her name on those or not.
 
I am going to pick Buckeye for an example because I love Getitias horses. Okay- so I buy a Buckeye stallion and a Buckeye mare. I breed them and get a colt which I name Lucky Harts Super King. Is Super King 100 % Buckeye? Now I breed Lucky Harts Super King to a Lucky Harts Maria Lover. And they produce a foal. Is that horse 100% Lucky Hart Horse? And pooff there goes Buckeye.

I guess what I think, is that the percentages should go on the horse itself and not the Farm name.

When I think of all the horses that I wish I had never put my farm name on.(100%ers) I don't put our name on anything that I don't like anymore. Really, I think this farm name thing is kind of nuts. Lucky Hart -Lucky Tart- who cares? It is the horse in the pedigree that matters. But I suppose I'll keep using the prefix for advertising because that is what we do.

I remember Mrs. Barett saying that she gave away lots of horses, but I don't know if she put her name on those or not.
I am no longer breeding, but I did Minis for over 20 years and dogs for over 42 years.My prefix,KNOLLAC, went on every animal that I bred.I used it to indicate where the animal came from and hoped that people would identify that name as a sign of its origin and the integrity that went with it.Like you said, not every animal truned out as I had anticipated, but I hope people know that it was raised with lots of love and had excellent care , all its shots, and was well trained before it left this farm.I use a farm prefix in tracing pedigrees and to judge the integrity of the pedigree since I know that with some farm names it just may not be what is on the paper especailly from many years ago.
 
To me, farm names are pure ego and advertising. Sorry if that offends anyone.

I think the horse should speak for itself.

I absolutely LOVE breeds like thoroughbreds or hackneys, where a horse can be known as "Whirlaway" or "Swamp Gator" and that's it... you know who the horse is and it stands on its own.

The two foals I have ever bred, did not carry a farm name and had a single name as their registered name.

Even my colt, is registered in ASPR as "Aftershock."

Andrea
 
On one hand you say this farm name thing what does it matter, and on the other hand you say you wish you HADN'T put your farm name on some of your foals and no longer put it on ones you don't like. Obviously your farm name means something to you. And it means something to others too. Lucky Hart is a well known name along with Buckeye and Little King and so on.....

Of course anyone, with any intelligence, knows that not every horse, from any farm, is perfect or a potential National Champion BUT certain farm names come with a good connotation and it is every breeder's dream to see their farm name gain that connotation - it increases the value of their stock overall. eg. your crap is better than some farms best.

Farms that very carefully linebreed and work hard, just as you have, to create, what is to them, the most desireable horse are proud of what they have accomplished and I see no reason to tear that down. I think it's kind of funny to hear both sides here - LaVern saying she will no longer put her farm name on anything she doesn't like and then Andrea who won't put her farm name on anything because she is proud that horse can stand on it's own merits. Neither is right or wrong and that is the beauty of being able to name your horse whatever you like! I do think though that years down the road people will remember that LUCKY HART What'shisname came from Lucky Hart and Aftershock came from I Don't Know What Farm. I guess it all depends on how many horses you have to sell.
 
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Milo, can't you tell I am very confused, as usual? I spend so much time going back and forth I don't seem to get anywhere.

I just would hate see people riding on the lucky hart name when I am long gone -with some of the so called Lucky Hart 100%.that weren't the best. The horses in the pedigree come first to me and then the names of the farms that use them.
 
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I agree! I miss buying show quality horses without someone's name attached to them. I have a few I'd like shown but

am I helping my farm or hurting it as all my horses have other people's farm names. Perhaps I should just wait until I

have a foal with my farm name on it?
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Renee,

Here is the Story on Audrey Barrett and her breeding farm with the "Aernosa" prefix:

The Arenosa Pony Farm Story

by Scott Uzzel

The story of the famed Arenosa Pony Farm started in 1941, when Audrey and Clinton Barrett first came to Victoria, Texas. At that time, most of the local cowboys had gone into the military, leaving the ranch work to the women, children, and those too old for the draft. Audrey, a former Miss Arkansas Ranch Girl, had owned a riding academy in Arkansas and was an expert horsewoman. With an outstanding string of cow horses, she found plenty of work on the local ranches. Children of friends and neighbors were always asking Audrey to ride her saddle horses, which she did not allow. A couple of grade ponies were purchased to occupy these area children. Later some mares were added to raise a few foals to help defray the cost of keeping the ponies. Arenosa Pony Farm was born.

The lives of many Victoria area children were enriched through Audrey Barrett and her Arenosa Shetland ponies Several local children who were headed down the wrong path were righted by the efforts of Audrey and her mission to introduce youngsters to the joys of working with Shetlands. Over the years, Audrey worked with hundreds of children, sometimes as many as 20 at a time, with some being as young as two years old.

“During the summer months, the parents had to come out here to visit their children,” Audrey said.

People often wonder where the Arenosa name originated. At one time the Barretts were going to raise ponies on a farm owned by Mr. and Mrs. J.E. Readding, along Arenosa (Spanish for dry) Creek in Victoria County. That plan did not develop, but because ponies had been entered in several shows under the Arenosa banner, the name stuck.

In the late 1950s the Barretts began acquiring nationally known show ponies for their breeding program, including Richardson’s C-Jo Topper, a “Top Ten” harness pony and son of the $56,000 C-Jo’s Topper. Others included Atkinson’s Hillswicke Dark Fancy, by Hillswicke Oracle; Richardson’s Pete of Fable Stables, an under 40” son of six-time national grand champion Curtiss-Frisco Pete; Supreme’s Gold Nugget of Royal Crescent, a son of the $85,000 Supreme’s Bit of Gold; and Fran R.’s Althea Cody, a national futurity winner by Silver Mane’s Frisco Cody.

Many other royally bred Shetlands entered the Arenosa breeding program, as the Barretts sometimes purchased entire herds of ponies from breeders who were dispersing, keeping the best and culling the rest. Some of the top foundation stock came from Mrs. Lloyd Richardson of Aransas Pass, Texas, who let Audrey have first pick before dispersing her ponies.

Over the years, however, the Arenosa name has become synonymous with one illustrious Shetland sire: Kewpie Doll’s Oracle 27889A. Foaled in 1950, this exquisite 39”, black and white stallion was sired by Hillswicke Oracle 24491A, one of the breed’s most influential sires, and a national champion in hand and harness.

The dam of Kewpie Doll’s Oracle, Streamliner’s Kewpie Doll 25066A, was the greatest model mare of her time, winning the blue at the National Shetland Congress in 1948 and 1949.

Dr. E.S. McClelland, Aledo, Illinois, purchased Kewpie Doll’s Oracle at the Perry Carlile Sale in 1954. When McClelland dispersed his Shetlands in 1956, the sale catalog offered the following excerpt about Kewpie Doll’s Oracle:

“Irregardless of their likes and dislikes, everyone who has seen this pony has kind words for him. He leaves a lasting impression that few can equal ... With a natural spring to every stride, Kewpie has the greatest pair of natural hocks we have ever seen. Without benefit of training, he literally ‘boxes’ with his hind feet.”

On a bid of $5,100, Kewpie Doll’s Oracle went to E.C. Adams, Sr., Blue Springs, Missouri, where he enjoyed a successful show career in model and fine harness classes. But it was in the hands of J.A. Stovall, Era, Texas, who owned the stallion from 1959 to 1967, that Kewpie Doll’s Oracle came into his own as a sire. From 1961 through 1963 his get dominated the hand and group classes at the Congress, thanks primarily to the 5-G Pony farm show string owned by J.W. Griffith, Longview, Texas.

From Stovall’s, Kewpie Doll’s Oracle went to Bob Reinhardt in Louisiana, then to Texan Buck Bucheit, who presented the stallion to young Nancy Barrett as a gift. While at Arenosa, Kewpie Doll’s Oracle sired many top ponies, including the sorrel and white stallion, Kewpie’s Topper of Arenosa 128828A, the sire of many champions in both The Classic American Shetland and Miniature Horse divisions.

“He certainly had the ability to transmit quality,” Audrey Barrett said of Kewpie Doll’s Oracle. “To see him move was a joy to behold. He passed that down, too.”

Kewpie Doll’s Oracle passed away at Arenosa in 1973 In addition to Kewpie’s Topper of Arenosa, he left behind another famous son in the Arenosa stallion battery, Kewpie Doll’s Diablo 84342A. Diablo was bred by J.A. Stovall, and was described in the 1961 Stovall Production Sale catalog as “the most beautiful stud in the sale.” Diablo was purchased by J.W. Griffith and joined the vaunted 5-G show string. Edna Kratz, Mesquite, Texas, bought Diablo at the 5-G dispersal sale in 1964, and exhibited the sorrel and white dynamo in under roadster classes throughout the Southwest.

The Barretts bought Diablo in 1969 for Nancy to show, with the stipulation that he never be sold. Throughout the early 1970s, Diablo amassed wins in the roadster stake at San Antonio, Dallas, and Pin Oak on the old Southwest circuit, defeating several national champion road ponies along the way.

With this caliber of show ponies in the stallion battery, one would expect the Barrett’s breeding program to gain national prominence. But the Arenosa program went beyond that, gaining international recognition, and becoming the leading exporter of Shetland Ponies in the United States for several years. Arenosa Shetlands have been sold to Canada, Germany, Israel, Mexico, Guatemala, and other Latin American countries.

The Latin American market proved to be especially lucrative during the 1970s, when the Shetland market was at its lowest ebb in the United States. Over a period of 20 years, Senor Perotti of Guatemala, an importer of fine livestock from Europe and the United States, imported dozens of Arenosa Shetlands. His son of Diablo, Painted Indian, was named grand champion stallion of Central America at a show in Honduras. Arenosa Shetlands were also owned by the mayor of Monterrey, Mexico, and the president of Honduras.

At a time when crossbreeding to Hackneys was rampant in the Shetland breed, Audrey Barrett steadfastly refused to crossbreed. Instead, she intensely line-bred her ponies in order to retain as much closeness to Kewpie Doll’s Oracle as possible. The average size of the Arenosa ponies was 40”. However, many were small enough to be registered as Miniature Horses, as well. Two of the better known Arenosa miniatures were the many-times-champion F.W.F. Charro of Arenosa and Juana Machete of Arenosa. Three Arenosa animals were entered in Volume 1 of the American Miniature Horse Registry Stud Book, all with their Shetland pedigrees intact!

During the 1980s, Audrey rejected several lucrative offers from prominent Miniature Horse breeders to buy her entire herd of Classic American Shetlands.

“I couldn’t imagine living my life without Shetland Ponies,” she said. “I tell them that they don’t have enough money to buy me out. The ponies bring me more pleasure than the money ever could.”

Arenosa was at the forefront of the Classic American Shetland movement that began in the early 1980s. When the first annual National Classic American Shetland All-Stars were announced in 1983, three of the top five stallions, three of the top five mares, and two of the top five pleasure driving ponies were Arenosa owned and bred. Kewpie’s Gabriella of Arenosa 132389A was the first National All-Star Champion Classic Mare. Kewpie’s Topper of Arenosa was the Reserve Champion Classic Stallion.

At the 1992 annual meeting of the American Shetland Pony Club, Audrey Barrett was inducted into the ASPC People Hall of Fame, a fitting tribute to a lifetime devoted to raising the finest in Classic American Shetland Ponies.

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"Aernosa" isn't a bloodline.....it's a name just like our farm names....go back and look at all of those stallions and mares listed in the pedigress. You will see lots of differernt breeders, just like today, we all "stick" our farm names to our horses. This lets people know who and what we are breeding...it's our tradmark. I work with the Spit-N-Image and Michigan lines....but that is just it, a name of a particular horse that was bred on that particular farm or by a particular person. The Aernosa isn't any different. I will give Ms. Audrey credit as she did put the Classic Shetlands on the map with her breeding farm and she did have some very nice ponies to boot but to say it is 100%, 75%, 50%, and so forth is really nothing in my book. A Grandson or Granddaughter is about as much as it can be for once you get past the third generation it is diluted by that time. A horse is 100% no matter what it is bred to unless you breed it to a donkey or zebra, then you have 50% donkey and 50% horse.

Karen

Karen
 
Was heading out the door and thought of this also. What if those horses that I feel are worthy of my "know it all approval" and farm name now, look terrible to me ten years from now, as the AMHR breed of miniature horses is improving so much, so quickly. Oh the dilemma.
 
Sorry...

but if I bred it, I am proud to put my name on it!

You cant pull out a crystal ball and forsee what the future holds for your foals! And their all super cute when born and look correct unless something is very noticable!

I have 3 foals so far: expecting 3 in 2010:

2006= Bravo's Little Kahper Jack (Kahper)

2008= Silver Maples Like A Rock (Chevy)

2009= Silver Maples Zahara Supreme (Zarie)

2010= Silver Maples ?

2010= Silver Maples ?

2010= Silver Maples ?
 
Was heading out the door and thought of this also. What if those horses that I feel are worthy of my "know it all approval" and farm name now, look terrible to me ten years from now, as the AMHR breed of miniature horses is improving so much, so quickly. Oh the dilemma.

I read years ago, that they didn't think much of Buckeroo as a weanling/yearling either...and from his pictueres, he really wasn't much to write home about. Unless you are willing to keep them all till they mature, so you can REALLY tell what they will be...I would put their "proper name" on them all, and hope for the best.

Myself, I am sort of between Disney, and Lavern. I do not think much of farm-name prefexes either, but DO always use a portion of the sire's name as a prefex. (Only time I didn't was a filly born of a mare bought when already in-foal.) I too want my horses to speak for themselves, but I do want people to know where they came from.
 
I am no longer breeding, but I did Minis for over 20 years and dogs for over 42 years.My prefix, KNOLLAC, went on every animal that I bred. I used it to indicate where the animal came from and hoped that people would identify that name as a sign of its origin and the integrity that went with it. Like you said, not every animal turned out as I had anticipated, but I hope people know that it was raised with lots of love and had excellent care, all its shots, and was well trained before it left this farm. I use a farm prefix in tracing pedigrees and to judge the integrity of the pedigree since I know that with some farm names it just may not be what is on the paper especially from many years ago.
I agree with what Bev Ann said.

The prefix or suffix will not make me buy the horse, but if I know the line and like it, I will look more closely at the horse. This works in reverse as well.

Alternatively, if the horse is named with no prefix or suffix, I think the person did not care enough about that horse to "sign it" with their farm name.

If you have been breeding for several years you finally may have a time when your pedigree has sire, dam, and foal with your farm name on it. It takes many years for you to be able to breed horses with your name on them. A bit of a sign to others that you have met your goals if you are doing it right.

We are always proud to add new horses from selected farms to our mare and stallion lineup and always give credit to those breeders for having created the horse we chose.
 
In dealing with big horses if you look at their magazines most often you dont see farm names. Instead you see their sires or famous bloodline in that name. It seems like when it comes to the miniatures we are total opposites and I just have to wonder why?

New people are coming in and I think its important that they know that they shouldnt look at farm names to buy horses or even sometimes bloodlines, you just got to look at the horse in front of you. If your farm name is famous tho it just means you are doing something right, perhaps its a sign of respect in this business. If you don't like the foal you produced sure you dont have to put your farm name on it but you can't avoid that foal and not claim responsibility for it. Thats just the way I see it.
 
Well not having a farm name at all has a lot to do with if you have a breeding program. If you do not have a breeding program it makes sense to just have a single word name. You do not necessarily care if years from now someone sees the name - Big Jim- and associates it with you and your breeding

Part of having a breeding program is marketing and in that light yes a farm name or prefix is very important part of that.
 
I have always been proud to add "Kickapoo" to the names of horses we breed here. Sure, they may not all be National Champion "worthy".....but they are quality & champions in their own way. Those that may have not gone as far in the halter showring, can turn out to be superb performance horses, or therapy horses.....or yes, wonderful pets!

As time goes by....the ones winning in the showring now, may not be high enough quality to win in the future. I think that goes without being said....especially with how quickly the breed is improving! That doesn't mean I won't always be proud of the horses I've bred over the years.
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To only put your farm name on the ones you "think" are worthy, is futile.....as you are never quite sure how they are going to turn out as adults. Be proud of them all!
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A well known farm name will help make me look at a horse. Not to make me BUY the horse, but take a 2nd look. The more well known names, Little King, Reece, Windflight, etc - to me - can represent a good breeding program. So I put our prefix, which ISN'T our farm name (LOL) on our homebreds.

But the stars, which usually go by one or 2 names - Buckeroo, Patton, Echo, Destiny, Blue Boy, etc - have just as much attention getting power as a farm name.

So to me, a prefix or farm name Is important, and should be used - but that JMOO!!
 
I agree with Kickapoo on this one, i am proud of the horses i produce, all my not be National Champions, but they all are unique and worthy in other ways, yes, i am proud to be Lil Hoofbeats!!!!!!!!! And proud to see my prefix on many other websites!!!!!!!!
 
Yes, You guys a probably right, if you raise them you should give them a name. And I do register most, just not all with the farm name. But, when you want to be known for a certain look or type, the ones that do not fall into your breeding type are not going to help with establishing a reputation for that type.

I know that someone said, that they are all cute, when they are little, but I don't want cute.

Also, those that I am not crazy about, are the ones that I sell much cheaper, and sometimes if I hold off on registering them and the customer likes that look they can put their name on them. That might be the type they like. The parentage is still the same.

Even with the Rowbucks there were lots that didn't make the grade.

Still no one has helped me out with my original question.
 
"I am going to pick Buckeye for an example because I love Getitias horses. Okay- so I buy a Buckeye stallion and a Buckeye mare. I breed them and get a colt which I name Lucky Harts Super King. Is Super King 100 % Buckeye?

Now I breed Lucky Harts Super King to a Lucky Harts Maria Lover. And they produce a foal. Is that horse 100% Lucky Hart Horse? And pooff there goes Buckeye."

To answer your original question, IMO I don't consider the "farm name" as having any bearing on "percentages" when looking at a horse. If a horse interests me, I go the pedigree. Take "South Sea's Flicka (IMAGINARY HORSE) her sire is Pacific's Trigger and dam is Atlantic's Silver. To me it doesn't matter that she is "South Seas" beyond catching my attention with the name. I am going to look at her background to see if I am interested in more information. She would be 50% Trigger and 50% Silver, etc.

Hopefully I've made myself clear!
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In dealing with big horses if you look at their magazines most often you dont see farm names. Instead you see their sires or famous bloodline in that name. It seems like when it comes to the miniatures we are total opposites and I just have to wonder why?
Not all big horse breeds--Morgans also use farm prefixes. Having grown up with Morgans, I think prefixes are perfectly logical & normal!
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I don't personally like using the sire's or dam's name in the name of the foal--I've seen names where people got (IMO) too carried away with that idea and it just ends up sounding foolish. I don't see the use of prefixes as being pretentious, or bragging, or egotistical...it's just the way it's done. It's nice to hear farm prefixes announced at horse shows--makes it easy to know who raised the horses that I see winning or like out there in the ring, it just makes it easier to know where to go for more of the same....or where to maybe stay away from if I don't care for the animals of that prefix. Hearings some generic names like Jetstream and Barney Boy doesn't give any one very much info.

Besides, having a registered prefix makes it a lot easier to name our foals with names that we like!!

I have to say that if I were getting too many foals that I wasn't happy with and that I didn't feel were good enough or "right" for my farm name, I'd have to take a long hard look at my breeding stock, and make some changes. Cut back, cull some animals, try some different crosses.
 
Hey LaVern - Tara better come home soon and give your some diversions!! Been listening to that North Dakota wind whistling a lot lately, haven't you???
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Besides, I know you love to hear that Lucky Hart prefix being announced at the shows....and if you bought the sire and dam.....it's still Lucky Hart breeding, right??!!
 

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