Permectrin for Delicing

[wildhorses]

I purchased a bottle of Permectrin CDS pour on insecticide to treat my minis for lice (as a precaution), I don't believe they do have lice. I am just wondering what the proper dosage for an adult mini is? The bottle label says to apply 8-16 ml for horses, but assume that is for a large breed horse. So I know some people on here use this, so thought I would ask the dosage they use on their minis.

I also plan to deworm with Ivemec at the same time I delice.

I am also wondering do you just apply it down the mane, back, and to the head of the tail, or do you apply to the head too? Thanks for the advice!

 

[shelia]

I would be concerned about exposing her to two different chemicals at the same time. It may be safe but someone else would know better than I would.

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

I've never had to treat a horse for lice yet, but was told to use Sevin Dust Powder, in a strip from between the ears to tail. If you're using Ivermectin, I've also been told that it's effective in killing fleas. I was told this by a breeder that kept poultry and emus so she did it as a precaution.

 

[weebiscuit]

I've never had a horse with lice, and I wouldn't ever treat them as a "preventative." Those chemicals are all hard on the liver. It would be like taking two Tylenol in case you get a headache. Why use any chemicals unless there is a real threat that needs preventing?

 

[albahurst]

Had to do the lice treatment today ugh... my gelding always gets them in the spring. We use Durasect II - 5 ml per horse from withers to tail.

 

[weebiscuit]

Had to do the lice treatment today ugh... my gelding always gets them in the spring. We use Durasect II - 5 ml per horse from withers to tail.

How does a horse pick up lice? How do you know your horse has them? Do you notice your horse scratching and find them, or do you just automatically do a good search for them? And where on the horse do they congregate? One place in particular?

I've never had a horse with lice, but in the spring I always backcomb their hair after clipping to search for them "just in case" and my husband tells me it's a waste of time. But I know chickens and cows can get lice, so I always assumed horses could too!

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I would not encourage preventive treatment of lice in this manner, not likely to be advantageous in terms of cost/benefit.

Lice do not reproduce in temps over about 50', so treatment or not almost all should be gone now anyway. You maybe seeing signs of what they did and following treatment they may improve, but that is different than you actually treated living/reproducing lice.

Liquid topicals can be irritating to the skin and are usually not used in show cattle, I wouldn't encourage their use in horses.

If you wanted to do something, I would recommend dairy louse powder.

Dr Taylor

 

[chandab]

Lice do not reproduce in temps over about 50', so treatment or not almost all should be gone now anyway. You maybe seeing signs of what they did and following treatment they may improve, but that is different than you actually treated living/reproducing lice.

Dr Taylor

Is that both day and night temps above 50* or just day time temps? We are warm enough during the day, but at night we still dip quite low.

 

[JAX]

I just helped a friend body clip a horse bought at a sale here in Texas. Not covered but we did find sores and about 2 dozen live louse... We are WAY above 50 degrees here! Hmmm maybe our bugs are aclimated differently

????

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Is that both day and night temps above 50* or just day time temps? We are warm enough during the day, but at night we still dip quite low.

Sorry, those pages are sticking together in my mind. I've commented on this topic before and given the 'facts of lice', please refer to that.

Dr Taylor

 

[albahurst]

I treated with topical at the advice of my equine specialist vet.

 

[albahurst]

How does a horse pick up lice? How do you know your horse has them? Do you notice your horse scratching and find them, or do you just automatically do a good search for them? And where on the horse do they congregate? One place in particular?

I've never had a horse with lice, but in the spring I always backcomb their hair after clipping to search for them "just in case" and my husband tells me it's a waste of time. But I know chickens and cows can get lice, so I always assumed horses could too!

He started his typical 'lice' scratching, so I looked and confirmed. He responds well to the DurasectII- two treatments 14 days apart. Actually, I believe I used a similar product this time, but made for horses- think it is called UltraBoss. This is the treatment recommended by our equine specialist vet.

 

[weebiscuit]

Lice do not reproduce in temps over about 50',

Dr Taylor

I find this surprising and sort of strange, because I am a retired school teacher, and I remember all too often how many times kids got lice during the school year, with heated homes that were certainly above 50 degrees 24 hours a day, and how the school would have to make sure the kids got treated and they'd send home notes for parents to check their kids heads because there were cases of lice in school.

Are these lice something different than those that would be found on horses? According to the school nurse, in one of our little seminars on the subject, most kids caught the lice from livestock on their farms, so I'm assuming they are the same??? Then again, I seem to recall reading somewhere that head lice were different from the lice on animals, but isn't a louse a louse, any way you look at it?

 

[Jetiki]

After purchasing an extremely thin horse last year, upon arrival at home we noticed lice and in a large amount. Upon a discussion with the vet we treated with ivermectin and bathed the horse in Adams Flea Shampoo 2 treatments and it was all gone.

Karen

 

[REO]

What WORKS, give them a bath with Harts 2 in 1 flea & tick shampoo. (yes for dogs) It kills the lice, even ones buried in the skin.

 

[cretahillsgal]

I have had to deal with lice the past 2 years. Both times in the early spring. The horses started rubbing so I checked and there they were. Durasect works very well. But what I did was bathe them in Adams F&T shampoo and then worm with ivermectin, then worm again with ivermected 2 weeks later. Got rid of them easily.

The first year the lice were congregated around their mane and tail head. This year I kept checking those spots when the horses started rubbing but could never find any lice. Until I clipped one mare down and found the lice all along her sides. Weird!

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

I find this surprising and sort of strange, because I am a retired school teacher, and I remember all too often how many times kids got lice during the school year, with heated homes that were certainly above 50 degrees 24 hours a day, and how the school would have to make sure the kids got treated and they'd send home notes for parents to check their kids heads because there were cases of lice in school.

Are these lice something different than those that would be found on horses? According to the school nurse, in one of our little seminars on the subject, most kids caught the lice from livestock on their farms, so I'm assuming they are the same??? Then again, I seem to recall reading somewhere that head lice were different from the lice on animals, but isn't a louse a louse, any way you look at it?

I'm calm now...Always get a little frustrated when my learned colleagues on the Human side of medicine spread absolute falsehoods.

Lice, like most parasites, are host specific. Meaning that they parasitise one or few species, not all species.

Kids get lice from other kids, NOT LIVESTOCK! Sorry, I'll calm down again.

There are many species of louse and I do not know the life cycle of all species, but the horse louse does not reproduce in warm environments.

Dr Taylor

 

[mizbeth]

Hello

I agree with the TEXAS heat and lice. A friend of mine visited in April around the middle of the month. She commented then that my horses had lice. WHAT! I have NEVER had lice. It is mid June and some still are showing signs of lice. I have treated them with EVERY THING you can imagine.

Ivermectin 2X in 30 days

Pine Sol

Permethicin

MTG

Seven Dust

Listerine

and really none of these have worked. There is something I have to do to all of them each day as they itch, scratch, rub their tails off, manes off etc. Now they are in a new pasture so could be something else, but I did see lice on some of them. I have NO idea where they came from, unless the neighbors horses and the temp's here have been well above 50' for some time. They should be gone.......I am desparate

 

[drmatthewtaylor]

Ok, I've looked it up to be sure of my facts, unfortunately I wasn't able to find a reference that gave an exact temperature, but I did find this.

Veterinary Medicine-Edited by Radostits, Blood, and Gay

''Life cycles of all lice are similar and are confined to the host. The eggs are laid, attach to coat fibers, and there are 3 nymphal stages before mature lice appear. The life cycle of most species varies from 2-4 weeks under optimum conditions. Lice breed within a narrow temperature range: when temperatures are cooler than optimum, eggs do not develop, while hotter temperatures prevent egg laying and kill the lice. Lice therefore show a seasonal periodicity with very low numbers in summer when conditions are hot. Breeding commences in the autumn and maximum numbers reached in the spring.''

Now for my opinion;

I think what people miss when treating lice are a few facts about their life cycle:

1)Medicines only kill adults, nothing kills eggs or nymphs, so any treatments needs to be repeated at 2 week intervals to get the lice while they mature to adults, but prior to their laying eggs.

2)There are 2 types of lice, sucking and biting, one needs to be treated with a topical and I believe the 2nd needs treated with a parenteral drug (avermectin wormer).

3)Skin infections can arise secondary to lice. They will have very similar signs and symptoms, if the infection is not treated appropriately then problems can persist long past when the lice are gone.

4)Animals who are failing to thrive will have more problems and need to be healthier to battle lice.

Dr Taylor