overo pattern

[Nancy]

I would like to know, if the stallion pictured above, tests negative for LWO, can he produce the frame overo pattern or would he have to be bred to a LWO positive mare to produce the frame overo pattern? I am not referring to splash I want only frame overos.In your opinion which would be the better way to cost effectively produce frame overos ? Would it be less expensive as far as purchasing the horses by purchasing a LWO positive [frame] overo stallion with a good frame pattern, and 10 mares that are solid or solid with sabino? Or would it be less expensive to use a LWO negative stallion, possibly with sabino and 10 LWO positive mares with a good frame pattern.

This is the pattern I would like to produce

 

[Becky]

LWO is frame overo, so in order to produce that pattern, one parent must be positive for LWO. My guess is that the horse pictured is LWO, but to know for sure, test!

 

[vvf]

I agree with Becky, I would guess that the stallion pictures is LWO + , but you need to test to know for sure.

But in answer to your question, if that stallion would test negative, then no, he cannot produce frame (LWO), unless bred to a frame mare.

I sold a frame stallion a couple years ago that produced a high percent of frame foals out of non- frame mares.

I have since bought another frame stallion that i will cross on my non frame mares. And then I have a splash stallion to cross with my frame mares.

It is hard to say which way would be less expensive, (having the LWO stallion vs the LWO mares)

 

[targetsmom]

Just want to add that what you DON'T want to do is breed LWO+ to LWO+ thinking it will increase you chance of getting a frame overo. All it will do is increase your chances of getting a lethal white foal that will die within 3 days.

If it were me, I would think your best bet would be to find a really nice frame overo stallion and breed him to solid mares. If any mares carry Rowdy blood (or maybe even if they don't) I would test to make sure they aren't LWO+. Solid mares will be easy to find.

Now, we breed for ANY pinto pattern and have a LWO+ mare, that when bred to our LWO- (and Rowdy bred) tobiano/splash stallion produced a wild colored tovero. That cross could also produce a frame overo, but we wanted to increase our chances of ANY pinto.

ETA: Remember that Rowdy was LWO+ and only a very small fraction of his get were obvious frame overos. You might want to try for stallion with a proven record of siring wild patterns.

 

[Joanne]

The horse you are trying to produce is carrying more than just the frame (lwo) pattern. It is also carrying sabino.

Additionally, if you are trying to produce a black frame sabino overo you will need to have a horse that is black and preferably Homozygous for Black as one of the bred horses.

This is a mare of ours which is black, carries frame and sabino overo genes and is negative for tobiano pinto. She looks a lot like the horse you are trying to breed for.

Below is a 2009 colt of ours (Tango) that reminds me of your stallion. He is Frame overo (LWO) positive, and homozygous for black. He would need to be bred to a sabino pinto mare to be able to get the horse you are trying for.

Additionally, the horse you are trying for is a kind that is especially hard to breed for. But if you do not have the genes, just like Becky said, you can never produce that horse pattern and color.

You have to start somewhere. If you have the stallion already, start looking for LWO negative mares that are sabino (sb1) tested positive.

If you have LWO positive mares, get a sabino stallion to breed them to.

I hope this clarifies it for you.

 

[Nancy]

Thanks Becky I thought that was the case but, just wanted others to verify this , I have heard from some people say, if they have the pattern pictured on the sorrel stallion but, are LWO negative they can still produce frame overos.

I am having my stallion tested his sire was a grandson of Rowdy so he possibly carries the LWO gene but, as you say he will need to be tested. Thanks for the input. I have a lot to learn about the frame overo pattern.

 

[Joanne]

Nancy I have heard people make that claim to. I guess to sell a horse, but maybe because they do not understand genetics.

You have to have the gene to be able to pass it on.

If you DO NOT have the gene in either the sire or dam, there is NO WAY they can pass on the gene as it does not exist.

 

[Nancy]

Thanks again Becky and thanks also to Cindy, Targetsmom, and Joanne, that pretty much sums it up for me. Joanne you know, Angel needs to fly to Mississippi to live for a while.LOL Love that mare !

 

[Joanne]

Not a chance, but nice try Nancy

I am TOTALLY in love with Angel !

Though you do have a certain frame overo mare that wants to vacation in California for a few years

We will see who makes the first move

 

[Nancy]

Joanne, somehow i figured you would say that about Angel but, ya can't blame me for trying.LOL

WELL alright just be that way, I guess I will just have to settle for the one I have, what I wanted was to ADD one more.LOL

 

[RockinSMiniature]

Hi Joanne,

Just wondering..

Do you think he has sabino in him?

He is neg. for frame overo.







It is very interested topic!..

 

[Nancy]

Ok y'all, what pattern is this girl????

Sorry I couldn't resist.LOL

Isn't she precious though.

 

[Dona]

Hi Joanne,
Just wondering..

Do you think he has sabino in him?

He is neg. for frame overo.







It is very interested topic!..

I'm not Joanne, but I would say this boy definitely is carrying a Sabino gene!

 

[chandab]

Ok y'all, what pattern is this girl????

Sorry I couldn't resist.LOL

Isn't she precious though.

Spotted.

And, yes, she is precious.

 

[Joanne]

Karrie the facial pattern, along with the roaning on him, certainly looks like he carries a sabino gene, as well as the obvious tobiano pinto gene.

 

[Horse Feathers]

Ok y'all, what pattern is this girl????

Sorry I couldn't resist.LOL

Isn't she precious though.

She has the cute gene

 

[Joanne]

Our neighbor has THE most BEAUTIFUL FRAME OVERO PINTO ...... CATS!!!!!!!!!

It makes me so mad to struggle to produce awesome frame overo pinto horses and they just turn out the cats and in a couple of months! No waiting a year and only getting one!!!!!

And now donkeys too!!!!

Oh my... I think I need to go and rest a while

 

[MBhorses]

my new stud is black overo. He is neg for LWO homozygous for black

what is up with photobucket? I was trying to post but the link wasn't there?

 

[Nancy]

Joanne, I have the same thing here lots of overo cats,dogs but, I have to struggle to get just one little frame foal. Guess I need to raise overo hennies.LOL

Here are 2 more, these were my son's idea.

 

[MBhorses]

http://www.painthorseafrica.com/014.php

site with some information.

http://www.palouse.net/Paint/overo1.htm