Okla. Dentist Arrested yesterday

[End Level Farms]

I refuse to have a vet do my teeth.

If my horses require anything teeth wise I will haul no matter how far it is to have a DENTIST do their work.

Basically if we want to think about it in human terms why dont we see the doctor cause our teeth hurt?

Why doesnt our DOCTOR work with our teeth?

Its the same thing with the horses why should their DOCTOR do their teeth?

Where is is in our RIGHTS to be told WHO AND WHAT can be done to our animals if its in their best interest. How is having a vet doing dentistry the BEST interest in our animals health and well being.

I have seen horse after horse after horse be seen by a vet and seen by a vet only to have ONE DENTIST visit and be helped.

One horse couldnt eat had a foul smell coming from his mouth for MONTHS the owner worked with 12 different vets 12!!! and not one spotted a bone chip sticking out in his mouth. Stabbing the roof of his mouth any time the poor horse ate. It was so infected and the horse was emaciated by the time the vets actually called the dentist that the owner had to keep explaining to the SPCA about all the vets working with the horse and tubing the horse and the horse was on IV's and everything. The poor owner had vet bills totalling over $5000 trying to figure out what was wrong with her horse. Her $200 dollar DENTIST bill fixed everything. The bone was taken out immediately and the horse was put on antibiotics and was fat and healthy in 2 months.

 

[JourneysEnd]

I'm sorry, but if you knowingly commit a felony, how can you NOT expect to get arrested?

Oh come on !

Horse owners of Texas, I hope you're emailing about HB 378 or this could happen to us.

My vet last week sent his tech in to do my horse's teeth, vet nowhere to be seen. Never looked at my horse.

Charged me $110. Enough is enough. Sometimes laws have to be challenged.

 

[wildoak]

NOW is the time in Texas to get busy and let your representative know how you feel about this. Otherwise, we are shortly going to be in the same position and you won't have the choice of calling a dentist.

Jan

 

[ErikaS.]

I guess I just don't understand why it's a FELONY to pratice dentistry on livestock without a licence. Murder is a felony- surely this doesn't come close in degrees of criminal severity. Don't vets have plenty of other things to do besides dental work? Maybe they want to trim hooves, too.

 

[osu_barrelracer]

I guess I just don't understand why it's a FELONY to practice dentistry on livestock without a license. Murder is a felony- surely this doesn't come close in degrees of criminal severity. Don't vets have plenty of other things to do besides dental work? Maybe they want to trim hooves, too.

The issue that they have isn't the actual floating of the teeth, its the administration of prescription sedatives by someone who is not a vet. They have no problem if YOU sedate your horse, but they are trying to say that someone who is not a licensed vet can not 'sell'/provide you with those drugs and/or administer them.

My personal opinion on it. . . These are my LIVESTOCK. I do not believe it is the governments place, or anyone else's to tell me who I can or cannot have work on my animals. I understand the issues with drug administration, but if a dentist or farrier wishes to administer drugs to one of my animals, that is my choice. It is up to me to accept the risks involved.

How long will it be until they decide we can't treat our own animals, do our own sutures, or even administer our own vaccinations?

Please go and check out this website. There is also a petition you can sign.

www.oklahomaequinedentistrylaw.com

 

[White Socks Miniature]

I agree, I think sending someone to jail for floating teeth is just rediculous, or even planning the whole setup! What about other more serious issues like gang violence, homicides? I think the government needs to get a few things in priority there!

I know here in BC Equine dentists are no longer allowed but a few still do practice. The reason it was brought about was actually complaints from horse owners as there were quite a few shody individuals who practiced. The government here did it as there was no formal training to become an equine dentist and also because of the drug administration issue. I honestly do not think you can compare a vet to a doctor and then your dentist to your equine dentist. Your vet, Doctor and Dentist have gone to school for 6-8 years to learn what they do. There is NO formal training for an equine dentist. Someone can just say they are an equine dentist, say someone trusts this person and gets the horses teeth done.... that horse could get seriously injured! Just like in every profession there are bad and good, and there are regulatory measures in place, but how do equine dentists regulate who is bad and who is good?

It really is a double edged sword, do I think what the OK. state government is doing is right ...kind of ( I think there is a better way of doing it though) , Do I think they are wrong...YES! I think instead of just challenging the law, a solution to the problem at hand needs to be made up. I think that equine dental practitioners should continue to have work, however I think that they need a way of certifing themselves as farriers do ( a college, series of courses...something that supplies a certificate at the end) and they also need a board of practitioners to regulate themselves, so if complaints are brought up the board can oversee the issue and set up rules and punishment if need be and there would also be a formal record of it. That is what I think should be done instead of just saying " you cant work anymore".

Anyways my point is shutting them down and making it a felony is VERY wrong! However I do believe that they need some formal training and a way of regulating themselves so this can all stop as I dont think it will if everyone complains about it. They need an action plan, as I really do hope they can continue thier work!

 

[Royal Crescent]

So, does anyone have an update on what is going on with this case now? I really think that this is inappropriate. It is not practicing medicine without a license, lol. It is basic care that all of should have a right to select who we trust to do it. And, esp with minis, the vets don 't have the knowledge, equipment or time to float teeth on everyones herd, The greed of a few affects us all, even if we don't live in that state.

Barb

 

[dmk]

I worry about the situation we have here in Texas as well. I have written regarding the current bill and am hoping for positive results. I have had a vet do my ponies and minis, but they ALWAYS sedate and then use the big horse equipment. Even on my little 30" mare and they got her tongue under the speculum. By the time they were done I was pretty much in tears. Where I live there is no other option regarding vets. Carl has never sedated any of my horses and has managed to accomplish every float or procedure he attempted - even the most unruly. He didn't even make me pay for the stainless bucket one of my mares smashed into a pancake OH!.

 

[Mona]

I received this email from Tom Allen...

Dear friends for the horse,

I am starting (just reserved it) a site to try to help us alert more horse owners to the real facts concerning their right to choose who works on their horses-the idea being that they will be aware, and therefore motivated to take action, stand up for their right to choose.

Any and all suggestions are welcome. I have another website-opened 10+ years ago (shortly after changing my work to horse dentistry only), where you can get an idea of my views. Also wrote a book: Manual of Equine Dentistry, in which I alienated a lot of my veterinary colleagues by giving credit to the non-vet equine dental practitoners who resurrected the study of horse denta health care.

Best regards, for the horse,

Tom Allen

Please send any replies to: [email protected] , not to [email protected] Thanks.

 

[Sandra L.]

stupid question but, what did he do to get arrested?

He received a call to come to someone's house and float the teeth of their horses. When he got there he was arrested. In Nov. of 2008 the law that made floating horses teeth a misdeamenor was changed to a felony. I have no clue if he actually floated any teeth or even looked at any horses mouths.

 

[Sandra L.]

Jeesh what next? Farriers?

I know my vet sends me to an equine dentist, they don't have the small tools for my minis, so I have to use a equine dentist. I sure hope they don't pursue these charges against him, it is not right.

As a matter of fact we have already been warned they are going after farriers next. That will have to be a new topic.

 

[Sandra L.]

The issue is not the equine dentist floating teeth on horses. The issue is not so much the equine dentist sedating that horse. The issue is the equine dentist is making money and the vets think that money should be in their pockets.

I personally would like to see a vet that gave a crap whether my 28 yr old horse lived or died. I did find an equine dentist that does nothing but miniatures and thank God he did care and has gone above and beyond to help my horse.

Even moreso, I would love to see a politician that would listen and that cared and that would try to help us. I just don't think that politician exists.

 

[MyBarakah]

I think this is SUCH B.S.!!!!!!!!

Come ON! They want to start pointing freaking fingers at the equine dentist then they need to ALSO do that with EVERYTHING else if they want to be butt's! Then what about equine chiropracters & acupunter (miss spelled) people! The vets are just MAD because they think the equine dentist are taking away from thier practice! Which is such a CROCK of CRAP! MOST equine or vets are NOT specialized enough to know "enough" to do "good" with a horse's mouth! I think Vet's should go do equine dental school before EVER being allowed to work on horses mouths...... not just threw the vet school..... and even then..... it's VERY questionable!! Were I deal first hand and am the one who MAKES the equine dental floats and get to hear & see first hand about this stinking problem going on....... DO NOT EVEN get me STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JWC sr.]

Folks, this is a very real scenario of what some of you could see in the future if the house bill is passed.

I personally do believe though that if a equine practitioner is using drugs of any type then he/she should be required to have someone present that has been trained to administer it etc. (Vets more than likely).

But with that said over the years we have had Carl work on and look at literally probably 3,500 horses and he has never needed to sedate to get the job done with a minimal amount of stress on our horses.

As far as Nathan's comments, give him a little slack. He is young and still has a lot to learn when he gets out of college, deals with horses in the real world and has to manage a herd or at least a group of horses on a regular basis taking into consideration proper care, costs etc. etc.

 

[Joanne]

I read this man's bio and he had a certificate for dentistry and has done it for quite some time. If you are interested in learning more here is his website:

Bobby Griswold

 

[sdmini]

South Dakota is cowboy country, we raise some of the best "cow" horses in the country. One of the best Barrel horse sires is a home raised horse and we have one of NCHA's best armature cutters so I guess it sort of surprised me when the state passed a bill taxing all horse services with the exception of race horses. We have race track, not many and only a few weekends make up our "season" so how did race horses get exempt? I wonder if it had anything to do with at the time our state vet at the time had race horses.

I have worked with several vets over the years, some better than others but most will concede to the fact that dentistry is not something they spend a lot of time on in school. All of those that I have talked to find this law extravagant and unnecessary but it only take a politically minded few to get something like this past.

 

[osu_barrelracer]

I think this is SUCH B.S.!!!!!!!!

Come ON! They want to start pointing freaking fingers at the equine dentist then they need to ALSO do that with EVERYTHING else if they want to be butt's! Then what about equine chiropracters & acupunter (miss spelled) people! The vets are just MAD because they think the equine dentist are taking away from thier practice! Which is such a CROCK of CRAP! MOST equine or vets are NOT specialized enough to know "enough" to do "good" with a horse's mouth! I think Vet's should go do equine dental school before EVER being allowed to work on horses mouths...... not just threw the vet school..... and even then..... it's VERY questionable!! Were I deal first hand and am the one who MAKES the equine dental floats and get to hear & see first hand about this stinking problem going on....... DO NOT EVEN get me STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In order for an equine chiropracter to be liscensed in the US, they must already be a vet. In oklahoma it is illeagle to do any chiropractic work, acupunture, or massage therapy and MAKE A PROFFIT on it unless you are a liscensed vet.

 

[ponyarab]

Jeesh what next? Farriers?

I know my vet sends me to an equine dentist, they don't have the small tools for my minis, so I have to use a equine dentist. I sure hope they don't pursue these charges against him, it is not right.

As a matter of fact we have already been warned they are going after farriers next. That will have to be a new topic.

Farriers and Massage therapists are on the list also and this comes from talking to a rep with AMVA so yes they are going after the people that do this which is crazy. In my opinion the Vets can't do it all and I think they may let some of this stuff go thru if they get a cut from the person performing any of the above.

 

[wendytx]

[SIZE=10pt]I received this e-mail concerning Carl Mitz current court case in Tx. If you are in Tx or any state trying to pass this please use this info and pass it on. This is the e-mail in its entirity and a little long but there is really good info and contacts in there. [/SIZE]

Wendy[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

Fellow Miniature Horse Owner;

I am writing you today in order to "spread the news" about the ongoing situation regarding your right to choose. Although this is about dentistry it could easily be about farrier, chiropractic or many other issues (in fact in many states it is).

There is an old saying in the horse world, "no foot, no horse". I would like to update this by saying, "no mouth, no future". In fact nothing could be truer in the Miniature horse world. We are the reason that the horse we hold so near and dear has so many dental issues. We need to be proactive in the defense of our right to care for these problems.

As Miniature Horse Performance Trainers, my wife, Lisa, and I have Carl Mitz (a layman Equine Dental Practitioner) check and perform dental services on our horses periodically every year. It is astonishing how many potential problems he corrects. While I understand the need for structure and licensing, I do not understand why the Texas Board of Veterinary Examiners has not required the licensed Veterinarians to learn dentistry before proclaiming that they are the only ones who can perform dentistry. By the way my father and grand father were both practicing Equine Veterinarians.

You will hear many arguments as to why the TBVME is sending Cease and Desist orders to non- Veterinarian Equine Dentists, such as:

The drug use among Layman Equine Dentists is rampant.

By the way the drugs are prescribed by veterinarians and the Veterinary Practices Act allows the trainer, you, and me the owner to administer them. It also allows farriers and others to administer the drugs under the "indirect supervision of a Veterinarian". Many Miniature dentists do not even use sedation drugs. I know Carl Mitz doesn't.

Veterinarians are the only qualified Dentists.

First of all, NO Veterinary schools require dentistry as a "core curriculum" class. At the most they watch teeth floating for a few moments (sometimes being performed by a layman). But they are not tested for dentistry proficiency on any state board examination to be licensed as a Veterinarian.

Layman Dentists have no credentials.

Layman Dentists learn their craft in two ways. They either apprentice with an accomplished practitioner or they go to a Dentistry School. Either way they can obtain credentials through testing by the IAED and this is the same place that Veterinarians continue their Dentistry education.

This is a very important issue and if we don't voice our opinions to our state representatives we are going to lose a right which will affect our horses health, their value, and our livelihood.

Last September The Lawyers representing us in this situation asked the Chair of the Texas Agricultural Committee, Sid Miller, to introduce legislation to remove "livestock Dentistry" from the Veterinary Practices Act. It has been reported that due to election results Sid Miller is no longer on the Agricultural Committee. The following email is from the husband of a Layman Dentist (he had political involvement with John McCain) who resides here in Texas and it includes easy contact information for your state representatives. It also explains what steps we all need to take to put this piece of legislation back on track. Following that is an email from Carl Mitz explaining the bill itself.

Lastly, a reminder that this email was sent to you because you agreed that I could send important miniature horse related matters on to you via an email list. If you no longer wish to receive emails I will gladly remove your name from the list if you so request.

Thank you,

[SIZE=10pt]Gary Barnes[/SIZE]

AMHA Region 6 Director 2009-2011

[SIZE=10pt]From: [email protected][/SIZE]

To: [email protected], [email protected]

Sent: 3/2/2009 2:36:36 A.M. Central Standard Time

Subj: letter to Equine friends

[SIZE=12pt]I'd like some feedback from you on this e-mail. I would go out to my lists, and hopefully everyone else's lists (go viral?). Thanks, Jim [/SIZE]

This is a legislative alert on the issue of whether non-veterinarian horse dentists can practice in Texas. As you may know, The Texas State Board of Veterinary Medical Examiners recently made a big push to put all non-veterinarians who float teeth out of business. The law only defines specific types of care exempt from the broad umbrella of veterinary medicine, and equine dentistry is not one of them. Now legislation has been introduced that specifically defines "floating a horse's teeth" as being a practice defined as something veterinary medicine is not. The wording of the law, HB 378, can be found at the link listed below after my signature.

This is an economic issue and a freedom of choice issue for all horse owners. The Board is forcing you by law to use only veterinarians for all health care of your horses. This legislation will permit qualified non-veterinarian professionals with specialized training to work on your horse

What I would like you and all of your friends to do is call your state legislator and tell them you support this bill. In particular, I would like you to call the members of the Agriculture Committee if they represent you in the legislature. The Committee Members, the counties and cities they represent, their phone numbers, and a link to their web site are listed below.

On March 12 and March 16 we are meeting with the Committee members individually. If you could take the time to call or e-mail these legislators prior to that date, it would amplify our voice and help out efforts to protect your interests. This is now or never. If we don't get this legislation out of committee, we will face two more years of harassment by the Board.

Thank you for your help and support. This is addressing one part of a much broader issue about how your horse receives quality care and how the Board is controlling your choices. Please contact me if you have more questions or comments.

James, husband of the Horse Toothfairy.

[email protected]

LINK FOR THE TEXT OF HB 378:

http://www.legis.state.tx..us/Search/DocViewer.aspx?K2DocKey=odbc%3a%2f%2fTLO%2fTLO.dbo.vwCurrBillDocs%2f81%2fR%2fH%2fB%2f00378%2f1%2fB%40TloCurrBillDocs&QueryText=HB+378&HighlightType=1

The members of the committee are

Name
Counties (Cities) Represented
Phone #
Web Site Link
Rep. Yvonne Gonzalez Toureilles - ChairmanAtascosa, Karnes, McMullen. Live Oak, Bee, Goliad, and Jim Wells Counties(512) 463-0645

http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist3...ureilles.phpRep. Charles "Doc" Anderson - Vice-ChairMcClennan County (Waco)(512) 463-0135 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist56/anderson.phpRep. Betty BrownHenderson and Kaufman Counties (Athens)(512) 463-0458 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist4/brown.phpRep. Joe CrabbHarris County (Houston)(512) 463-0520 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist127/crabb.phpRep. Rick HardcastleMotley, Dickens, Cottle, King, Hardeman, Foard, Knox, Haskell, Wilbarger, Baylor, Throckmorton, Young, Jack, Clay, Montague, and Cooke Counties (Wichita Falls)(512) 463-0526 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist6...rdcastle.phpRep. Joe HeflinReagan, Irion, Sterling, Glasscock, Howard, Borden, Terry, Lynn, Garza, Crosby, Kent, Stonewall, Fisher, Jones, Hale, and Floyd Counties(512) 463-0604 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist85/heflin.phpRep. Tim KleinschmidtBastrop, Brazos (part), Burleson, Colorado, Fayette, and Lee Counties (Giddings)(512) 463-0682http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist17/kleinschmidt.phpRep. Tara Rios YbarraJim Hogg, Brooks, Kleberg, Kenedy, Willacy, and Cameron Counties (Kingsville)(512) 463-0463 http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist43/Ybarra.phpRep. David SwinfordSherman, Moore, Potter, and Carson Counties (Amarillo)(512) 463-0470http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/dist87/swinford.php[SIZE=10pt][/SIZE] ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:38 AMSubject: Teeth Floating Bill # 378

[SIZE=10pt]ATTENTION!All Horse Owners of Texas: Bill # 378 is now with the Ag Committee. This is the bill to allow equine teeth floating by non-vets. It is very important that you contact Representative Charles "Doc" Anderson (District # 56), the vice chair of this committee and tell him to support this bill. Remind him that the State Vet Board gave legislators the responsibility to change this law. Sid Miller is no longer the chair of the Ag Committee - in fact, he is not on the committee at all. Charles "Doc" Anderson contact info: Capitol Phone: 512-463-0135Distric Office: 254-754-3892Email: [email protected] *Please Forward This To Every Horse Owner in the State of Texas! Thank you for your support.Carl Mitz [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt][/SIZE]

 

[Nathan Luszcz]

As far as Nathan's comments, give him a little slack. He is young and still has a lot to learn when he gets out of college, deals with horses in the real world and has to manage a herd or at least a group of horses on a regular basis taking into consideration proper care, costs etc. etc.

I've been caring for my herd (now up to 13 including the ones at home that I manage but don't own) for several years, and have been managing herds of 200+ horses for several years since I graduated graduate school. I just paid a $650 vet bill, not including the vaccines I bought and administered seperately. That $650 included about $200 worth of dentistry done by my veterinarian, including sedatives, which I feel are mandatory for a good job to be done. That included having a wolf tooth pulled on my miniature stallion. It is my professional and personal opinion that veternarians SHOULD be doing dentistry, and I support the law. I have been very fortunate to live near vets (in four states, several in each state) that were known in their practice for their dentristry skill. I guess with all those seperate experiences with a number of vets hundreds and thousands of miles apart in relatively random locations has led me to believe that vets that know what they are doing are NOT far and few inbetween. Like I said, I support the laws limiting veterinary practice in this case. In others, I do not. For example, in Kentucky it is considered veterinary practice to freeze semen. Farrier work I would fight tooth and nail; that is definately a non-vet practice, except in very special cases and there are vets who take care of that work. But dentistry, I have always been outspoken against people badmouthing vets.

As far as the comment I made here, that still applies regardless of what topic you are discussing. If you know you are doing a felony, you need to either fight to make it legal, get an exception, or expect to get arrested if you continue. That's just common sense! This dentist should have known it was a risk, and if he accepted that risk, so be it.

And my dentist (human) is most CERTAINLY a doctor!!!!!! I wouldn't let a non-DMD dentist near my mouth.