Non/pregnant mare with bag developing?

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cherylsminis

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I bought a 4yr. old mare that has had one foal and that was June 2006. She was put back in with the stallion shortly after that. I bought her in Dec 2006. She bred my stallion a few times in March 2007. I recently noticed that her tits are hanging and she looks like she is getting a bag.

My question is this: Have any of you ever had a pregnant mare to breed (3 or 4 times) when introduced to a new stallion?

Can a mare this age have hanging tits and not be pregnant?

Thanks for any information you can give me.
 
I bought a 4yr. old mare that has had one foal and that was June 2006. She was put back in with the stallion shortly after that. I bought her in Dec 2006. She bred my stallion a few times in March 2007. I recently noticed that her tits are hanging and she looks like she is getting a bag.

My question is this: Have any of you ever had a pregnant mare to breed (3 or 4 times) when introduced to a new stallion?

Can a mare this age have hanging tits and not be pregnant?

Thanks for any information you can give me.

There are mares that will breed during a pregnancy. It doesn't happen a lot but it does. I have had a mare become very studdish, jumping on other mares backs. Aren't hormones wonderful? Mares can also have false pregnancies, complete with a bag and milk.

Smart thing to do would be have her vet checked for pregnancy.
 
Mares can't have false pregnancies
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They can have bags develop, yes, not all that uncommonly. They can think they are STILL pregnant, but they have to be pregnant in the first place.

As far as pregnant mares being bred by stallions (mares don't breed stallions
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That's the stallion's job, to do the breeding!) it is possible, but its a big no-no! Stallions can abort mares very easily by breeding them. Any introduction of semen into the mare's uterous will cause her to abort. So seperate those slutty mares from a willing stallion
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Put her on Regumate if nessesary; she should have enough progesterone to keep herself out of heat and uninterested.
 
I have 3 maqres that keep comming in heat. And it is strong and long .Lasting many many days each month.They also have developed in the uttter area.2 are slim.The other has what looks like a hay belly.As she is 13 yrs old and never foaled yet.And my vet is no help.So I can`t help you on your question :no:
 
Mares can't have false pregnancies
default_smile.png
They can have bags develop, yes, not all that uncommonly. They can think they are STILL pregnant, but they have to be pregnant in the first place.

As far as pregnant mares being bred by stallions (mares don't breed stallions
default_smile.png
That's the stallion's job, to do the breeding!) it is possible, but its a big no-no! Stallions can abort mares very easily by breeding them. Any introduction of semen into the mare's uterous will cause her to abort. So seperate those slutty mares from a willing stallion
default_smile.png
Put her on Regumate if nessesary; she should have enough progesterone to keep herself out of heat and uninterested.

LOL! Well put!
 
Yes, a mare can have what is labeled a "false pregnancy". And yes, they are pregnant initially and still think they are. Usually this is due to early embryonic death. At a little over one month pregnancy, a hormone comes into play which helps maintain her pregnancy. If the mare has lost the pregancy, her body may still think she is pregnant and proceed as if so. I have a miniature mare who not only developed a bag and milk, but she also became huge in her belly. I truly thought she was in foal but could not get a vet to ultrasound a mini out here in the boondocks, at that time. Finally, by day 365 and lots of mare stare, we determined it was a false pregnancy. She even mimiced first stage labor! :new_shocked: Stall pacing, butt pressing into the wall, kicking at belly, sweats, the whole bit. It was an unbelievable experience. It took almost six months for her body to get back to normal. She has since given us two gorgeous colts but I will never say never again to the possibility of a full blown "false pregnancy".
 
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Between 35 and 40 days the embryo attaches "endometrial cups" to the uterous. Once those cups attach, the mare thinks she's pregnant. So if the mare looses the pregnancy after the cups have formed, it'll be approximately 4ish months before she cleans up everything and starts to cycle again. Its not a hormone, rather this structure. That is very different from a false pregnancy, which doesn't happen in horses. Each part of the process; staying out of heat and forming accessory CL's, bagging up, and "labor", are individual symptoms of seperate problems.
 
Between 35 and 40 days the embryo attaches "endometrial cups" to the uterous. Once those cups attach, the mare thinks she's pregnant. So if the mare looses the pregnancy after the cups have formed, it'll be approximately 4ish months before she cleans up everything and starts to cycle again. Its not a hormone, rather this structure. That is very different from a false pregnancy, which doesn't happen in horses. Each part of the process; staying out of heat and forming accessory CL's, bagging up, and "labor", are individual symptoms of seperate problems.
What I am referring to is the hormone prostaglatin and it's role here. The following is part of an article about false pregnancy (pseudo pregnant mares, prolonged luteal activity, if you prefer a different term) in horses. The entire article was huge so only copied this part here.

False Pregnancy

Now that we have an understanding of the role of prostaglandin in the reproductive process, it is time to take an in-depth look at what occurs or doesn't occur that results in a false pregnancy. This time our expert on the subject is Patrick J. Meyers, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACT, University of Guelph in Ontario. He prefers using the term prolonged luteal activity rather than false pregnancy.

"To understand this condition," he writes, "the following points must be considered. Luteal tissue can originate from anovulatory (not ovulating) as well as ovulatory follicles. The corpus luteum resulting from the primary ovulation during the follicular phase of the estrous cycle is present during diestrus (not in heat), pregnancy, and embryonic loss. New or accessory corpus luteums develop while under the influence of a normal (diestrus and pregnancy) or an abnormal (prolonged luteal activity) progestational state. These unique physiologic intricacies of the mare make understanding the term prolonged luteal activity difficult."

Meyers further explains that his rather long statement means that continued function of the corpus luteum to produce progesterone even though pregnancy has not occurred or has been terminated, is brought about by failure of the uterine luteolytic mechanism.

In the absence of an embryo, it is the endometrium of the uterus in the normal horse that produces the prostaglandin that becomes the messenger that informs the mare's reproductive system that something has gone awry, and it is time to start over.

The prostaglandin normally travels from its production site in the uterus to the corpus luteum and presents its message. When the message is received and heeded, the production of progesterone ceases, and the mare returns to estrus.

Let us interject here a word about what happens when a viable embryo exists in the uterus. The embryo attempts to ensure its preservation by traversing and contacting a large portion of the surface of the endometrium during the mobility phase (Days 11 to 15 post-ovulation). By so doing, it prevents the release of prostaglandin, so the corpus luteum continues to function.

"This physiologic phenomenon," Meyers explains, "may be referred to as the maternal recognition of a pregnancy. Loss of an embryo after maternal recognition of a pregnancy causes a prolongation of luteal activity because embryonic secretory products or remnants may remain in contact with the endometrium for several days after embryonic death. When early pregnancy loss could not be easily established before the widespread use of ultrasound, mares may have been diagnosed as 'pseudo-pregnant' if there appeared to be an extended period of anestrus during the ovulatory season. Any severe uterine anomalies or pathology that eliminates or upsets the uterine luteolytic mechanism may also result in prolonged luteal activity through uteropathic causes."

That being said, Meyers goes to what he considers to be the heart of the problem in a number of cases of false pregnancies--undetected ovulations during the diestrous (out of heat) period.

With ultrasound monitoring of ovaries, he tells us, "it was determined that previously undetected diestrous ovulations were responsible for prolonged luteal activity."

The occurrence of these ovulations toward the end of diestrus, he explains, probably created a corpus luteum that was too immature to respond to the prostaglandin sent its way from the uterus.

Diagnosis And Treatment

"If a mare experiences long periods of anestrus combined with irregular estrous cycles during the ovulatory season without being mated," Meyers explains, "diestrous ovulations may be suspected. Careful and constant monitoring of follicular and luteal dynamics through the use of ultrasound is the only way that diestrous ovulations will be detected. Monitoring must be performed every 24 to 48 hours.

"The results of monitoring luteal progression and dynamics through ultrasound and daily plasma progesterone determination are valuable information. These two techniques assist the practitioner in determining the optimal time for the assignment of prostaglandin treatment to induce a mare into a fertile estrus on the subsequent estrus."

Administration of the correct amount of prostaglandin, Meyers says, will "suppress follicular activity and may allow a more orderly 'restart' of the endocrinologic clock."

He concludes his discourse on diagnosis and treatment protocol this way:

"Again, ultrasound is an invaluable tool in the diagnosis of cases of prolonged luteal activity and its causation. Endometrial biopsy may be extremely helpful in the diagnosis of prolonged luteal activity associated with repeated bouts of early embryonic mortality. An endometrial biopsy is also required for ruling out the possibility of uteropathic persistence of the corpus luteum (i.e., endometrial underdevelopment, chronic low-grade endometritis). If prolonged luteal activity can be ascribed to idiopathic (of unknown causes) persistence or early embryonic death, prostaglandin should be administered to induce a return to estrus."

The role of ultrasound in the diagnostic procedure is highly important because rectal palpation of the corpus luteum often is ineffective.

In the textbook, Equine Reproduction, researchers Elaine M. Carnevale, DVM, MS; Angus O. McKinnon, BVSc, MSc, Dipl. ABVP, Dipl. ACT; Edward L. Squires, PhD; and James Voss, DVM, MS, one of the book's editors, collaborated on a chapter that discusses the use of ultrasound. They noted the following information:

"Some of the reasons for ultrasonographic evaluation of corpa lutea are to 1) detect ovulation; 2) evaluate corpus luteum formation; 3) determine size and characteristics of the corpus luteum; 4) determine if failure of a mare to display estrus is caused by prolonged maintenance of a corpus luteum or absence of a corpus luteum and follicular activity; 5) distinguish between anovulatory hemorrhagic follicles, luteinized unruptured follicles, and corpus luteum, and 6) determine if a mare has ovulated more than one follicle."

The four then zeroed in on the use of ultrasound to determine if a pseudopregnancy (false pregnancy) is being dealt with. They point out that, with ultrasound, prolonged maintenance of the corpus luteum, resulting in false pregnancy, can be differentiated from an anovulator or anestrous condition. The corpus luteum is first visible on the day of ovulation (Day 0) as a strongly echogenic (giving rise to echoes of ultrasound waves), circumscribed mass of tissue.

The echogenicity, they reported, gradually decreases throughout diestrus. However, just before regression of the corpus luteum, echogenicity increases.

The researchers explained it this way:

"Initially, the corpus luteum is highly echogenic on the day of ovulation. At this time, it is easiest to identify. The echogenicity decreases over the first six days of diestrus, remains at a minimum level for several days during the middle of diestrus, then increases over Days 12 to 16. An increase in brightness of the corpus luteum during the time of corpus luteum regression was also observed. The ultrasonographic changes are apparently indicative of changes in luteal hemodynamics and may be indicative of changes in patterns of blood flow within the corpus luteum as well as changes in tissue density.

"With experience, the practitioner can become accurate at using ultrasonography to confirm ovulation and detect the presence of a corpus luteum. Ultrasonography can also be used to diagnose pseudopregnant mares. A persistent corpus luteum and absence of an embryonic vesicle are evidence of a pseudopregnancy. Once these mares are identified, prostaglandins can be safely given to induce estrus."

Thus, we can conclude, the condition of false pregnancy, though simple on the surface, is a bit more complicated when given an in-depth examination. The good news for the horse owner is that the problem can be diagnosed with ultrasound and normally can be treated effectively with administration of prostaglandins.

The take home message for the horse owner is to make use of the technology that is available. Most major breeding farms today have veterinarians on staff or on call who routinely monitor the pregnancy progress of the broodmare band. A number of smaller breeders, however, put stallion to mare, check them through teasing to determine whether they have come into heat again, and if they do not show signs of estrus, declare the mare to be pregnant. As has been learned from the experts quoted above, this is not always the case.

The mare's reproductive system might have failed to receive the signal that no pregnancy exists and does not return to estrus. The result can be a wasted year. An ultrasound examination can prevent that from occurring, and can be a valuable tool in monitoring fetal development.
 
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Prostoglandin STOPS that kind of prolonged anestrus. I've spent many an hour working with CL's with my advisor and his PhD student, who's research focused on this subject. That is not what most people consider a false pregnancy; most vets call what I described as being a false pregnancy.

Prostoglandin does not cause pseudopregnancy, it "kills" corpus lutea.
 

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