New to mini's, questions!!!

[kjr5horses]

Hello everyone!

Okay so I am moving to a ten acre horse farm in June/July. We are going (in time) turn it into a nice facility to train horses and board a few people there as well.

My co-trainer/friend and I want to look into buying a miniature colt next spring/summer if possible.

We wanted to train and show it and if it does well and has fantastic conformation, possibly offer him up for stud for a couple of years before selling him(possibly). And doing it again with another mini if it all works out.

So I have a few questions and we really want to do our research before buying and putting time into this.

First off, we are trainers and deal with mares, stallions, and geldings almost on a daily basis. We handle problem horses and younger ones as well as give lessons. We have both handled mini's before but only to exercise them since their owner was too busy at the time.

Now I have looked into miniatures, stallions particularly, and found numerous ones that I like and I would want our colt to look like. For example, http://www.minihorse.co.nz/legacy9.JPG, I like that he has a lighter build and is more Arab-like than pony like.

Q1: Is this a better look for showing?

Q2: What are the pro's and con's of a lighter horse?

Q3: What kind of conformation and things do you look for in a miniature stallion?

Q4: What do you look for in a colt when deciding if he is show or pet quality?

Also when showing a miniature I saw that there are many different kinds of classes and what not. We were looking into showing him in halter type classes ect..

Q5: What do the judges look for in these classes?

Q6: What do they judge in the horse?

I also read that judges like to see color in their classes and in some it said that the judge based the points etc. off of color and only 20% off of the rest.

Q7: What do you look for color-wise when looking to show a horse?

Other Questions:

Q8: How much do you feed your show mini?

Q9: How much do you feed your show stallion?

Q10: How much does it cost you per month to feed one mini? (Stallion)

Q11: Do you think we could buy a show worthy colt for $800 or less? (TX)

Q12: Are there stallion approval or tests for miniatures?

Any advise and tips are welcome! We are looking to learn as much as possible to make an informed and realistic decision.

Thank you for reading this novel!

KJR

We will probably end up with mre questions!

 

[Riverrose28]

Well you certainly did ask a lot of questions, and this old lady will forget to answer them all. Yes in this economy you can buy a good stallion colt for around that amount, but back in the day it would have been thousands. You are wise to promote your stallion. The stallion my avator is refined. Can you go to the opening page on LB and visit the breeders link for your area? Look at the pictures and see if you can find a deal. You will get alot of different opinions on feeding. When showing mine they are not breeding, so they get twice a day two cups of 14% protien pelleted grain, one half flake of grass hay and one hlf flake of alfalfa. When they are breeding this is upped to two whole flakes of each. They also receive when showing, soaked beet pulp, and black oil sunflower seeds to bring out their color. Speaking of color what you are describing is color class. Also each registry is different. In AMHA they are looking for a horse that is as perfect as possable under 34 inches and can show and stretch that neck but stand square. In AMHR they are looking JMO for the ASPC/AMHR type that can also show and sometimes are strectched just a little more. I would recommend going to a show that offers both registries to see for yourself. See forgot the rest of the questions already, maybe someone else will chime in.

 

[LittleRibbie]

Welcome to LB and congratulations on your new horse farm adventure.

So many questions and you'll get lots of great answers ( albeit many different ) and advice ( also all different ) here, but i will let the pros guide you.

From me your just going to get a big 'ole welcome!!

I will say though...we love pictures...but that means I need to practice what i preach...and Im horrible at posting pictures. Where do you live?

Heidi

 

[Riverrose28]

I'm back! What do I look for when purchasing a stallion prospect. I'm a leg person, they must have long straight legs, no toeing out, I like the refined stallions for halter, can breed them to almost any mare, like the LK Black Velvet line. I also have a stock type stallion that looke more QH but puts on lots of legs and white socks and great hips that driving people love. I also want good length of neck and a small throat latch, the neck must not tie in too low for either halter or driving, I also like a flat top line for halter and good tuck up. I'm not a big breeder for color, but do like the class and have several that do really well in it. Atitude!! Atitude is important, I want a stallion that says "LOOK AT ME" A full blown out trot and movement, not a lazy boy for showing.

 

[kjr5horses]

Wow! Thanks for the replies and welcomes! I'm sure we will get lots of advice and we will have more questions as they arise

We live in Texas, moving out to Waller soon!(outside of Houston)

 

[Riverrose28]

Oh forgot to tell you Welcome from Southern Maryland!

 

[kjr5horses]

Thanks

We just want to get all of our ducks in a row before getting a colt or taking steps to get one. We like doing our research before investing in anything so we probably wont get a colt until next spring/summer!

Super excited though.

@Riverrose28: I cxompletely agree. When looking at any stallion you definiatly want the LOOK AT ME factor. Stallions should have presence and everyone should look at them and think "He's gorgeous and he knows it!". Personality is a major factor and we love horses with personalities!

Most of the horses we work with are labeled as "crazy" or "agressive" especially the stallions we handle. Although, they really just have character and were spoiled half to death and not worked with so they went a bit stir crazy! But they are so much fun to work with and train.

 

[Riverrose28]

I must say, I'm an old woman, but I love a stallions atitude. but, they must behave for me in hand, out of hand is another matter, but we have taught ours the word wait. I have to lead these guys out and in everyday so co-operation is important since I have OA and my hands are crippled. They are all baby dolls for me, but you better believe when in the breeding shed, and teasing mares in the round pen, they are all show offs! Love it! So do the mares. Our senoir stallion is right on, he won't even drop if a mare is not ready, he just prances around even if she is showing signs, so he is my predictor. No aggression here. And the word wait is so important, as I can say wait and he will then teas somemore until she is ready. Love my boys! No he is not for sale for any price. Believe some have tried.

 

[kjr5horses]

I completely agree. They need personality but hey must behave. A poorly trained stallion is a nightmare for anyone no matter their size! All of the horses we work with and even our own are trained extensively on the ground, we teach everything on the ground before moving to riding, with the 'big' horsess, with the colt it will obviously be all ground manners and what not.

The two mini's we have helped with before were completely untrained mares, they knew how to lead....a little. But thats it. One even drug someone, they are stronger than they look, since we worked with them they are awesome now Sadly we are not training that owner's horses anymore.

 

[Sandee]

Welcome and good luck. If you like showing and have the money to "play around", then go for all of it. However, the old saying about the only way to make a little money in horses is to start with a LOT of money! In other words, don't give up your day job. Even a lot of trainers can't make enough just training and showing they have to have a second income. As for breeding, well, no is much right now. That was the best reason for me to geld my stallion. He hadn't been "used" in a couple of years and I didn't feel right penning him up to just look at. He was and is a sweetheart to show so gelded at least the grandkids can handle him (13 and under cannot show stallions).

As for feed I have my show horses (which right now is all 3) in dry lots. Mine are 32" and 34". They get about 2 lbs of hay split between monrning and night. They also get about 3/4 lb of mini feed twice a day and my mare that is more active and inclined to ulcer also gets 1/4 lb alfafa twice a day. They are in pretty good physical shape except for the 23 yr old, who I swear could get fat on air, and they all have good energy.

 

[Al B]

KJR

We are in Cypress, just 12 miles from Waller. We've been at it for 20 years and have about 58 minis. Check us out on the website www.willowcrest.com. We'll be happy to answer all your questions and help you get your feet on the ground here.

 

[REO]

Welcome to minis and the forum!

I'm in SW Oklahoma! There are tons of shows up this way! Lots of great horses too!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

Welcome to the forum!!!

As you are already experienced, much of your education will apply to minis as well. Good quality feed with a high protein content, low sugars is always what I prefer for minis. I never (anymore) feed sweet feed or lower cost/quality feeds. I find it just isn't worth it in the long run. Softer hay is always best of course.

As for showing, the mini world changes must faster, in my opinion, that some other breeds, so what is "in" or winning today may not be 2 or 3 years from now. First and foremost, you have to live with the stallion and look at him everyday. Buy what YOU like to look at and what you think will produce the look you're going for. I didn't look at the link you provided, but certainly conformation over pedigree or color is most important to me. I also think a pretty and head and eye goes a LONG way in the ring.

As others have said, minis aren't a money-making venture generally. You do it because you enjoy it. As for finding customers for your stallion, that will be hard unless you've proven him in the ring and on your own mares first. Most people will not pay a stud fee (in the mini world) unless it's a proven, over years, stallion. I personally will send mares to outside stallions, but it's not for everyone.

Best of luck to you!!!

 

[kjr5horses]

That's awesome! I think I have seen your website recently and all of your mini's are gorgeous!

We are not looking to create a breeding farm but something more along the lines of a stud farm. We would like, an it may change, to buy a colt and train him ourselves and show him and then show and eventually sell him, depending on how things go.

But who knows what will happen!

I would love to buy a mini from you, but we are unfortuently not wanting to spend over 800-950 on the colt.

but all of your help and advice is welcome!

Thanks for all the advice!!!

 

[StarRidgeAcres]

That's awesome! I think I have seen your website recently and all of your mini's are gorgeous!

We are not looking to create a breeding farm but something more along the lines of a stud farm. We would like, an it may change, to buy a colt and train him ourselves and show him and then show and eventually sell him, depending on how things go.

But who knows what will happen!

I would love to buy a mini from you, but we are unfortuently not wanting to spend over 800-950 on the colt.

but all of your help and advice is welcome!

Thanks for all the advice!!!

Glad you're finding some great advice!!

I can understand your budget as I'm always on one too!lol But keep in mind your prospective clients' perspectives...why would they spend their hard-earned money on a stud fee with you when they could BUY the same colt for less than $1000? Usually, people who are willing to spend money on a stud fee are doing so because they couldn't afford to buy that stallion themselves. Or at least that's my opinion. Personally, I'm not going to give a second look to a stallion that is publically advertised for a fee of $300. Why? Because if that's all the owner's feel his get are worth, I'm not going to risk the life of my mare for a possible $300 foal. But there are $20,000 stallions out there that I can't afford to buy, but I can afford a single breeding to. Generally, a stud fee is roughly 10% of the stallions sale price, if he were offered for sale. Now, a different side of the story is if someone has a nice stallion, but he hasn't had a lot of exposure yet OR they want to have him bred to a particular nice mare, they may offer a "reduced" fee for that particular mare. Just some food for thought.

As with large horses, always buy the very best you can afford. But you already know that.

Keep asking questions! You've come to the right place. And...there are lots of people on this forum who have very nice stallions available. You never know!

 

[REO]

What Parmela said!

 

[kjr5horses]

I agree with what you said. But the stallion would be worth more after being trained and showing. Thus it's stud fee would be a bit higher. You can find amazing horses at a 'lower' price and they become wonderful animals and showers. You just have to look a bit harder.

However, the longer we look the more we will have to spend on the foal. We may very well end up with more like 1,000 to spend on a colt rather than 800.

Still loving all the advice!

 

[disneyhorse]

You say your stallion will be "worth more with showing and training" but with minis, this isn't really the case. It costs a lot to show, and the thousands you'd spend on gas and entry fees and such will add up far beyond the $800 it costed to purchase a colt. I spend an average of $1000 per horse to go to Nationals, and that doesn't include any local shows. And a colt is a gamble, anyway. The mini market is flooded with colts. I've got my eye on a colt or two as gelding prospects... And they are a CHEAP $1500. I am looking for a Nationals quality show horse.

Not that you can't find a stallion prospect for under $1000, but it's going to be a very lucky find, and you'll have to have a very good eye for what's winning in the ring.

I don't know what you are wanting to show in, what registry, or what your goal is (National Grand Champion or just a Top Ten at nationals?) If you are very serious about this endeavor I'd suggest attending a National show and scrutinizing the stallion classes and seeing what is winning before shopping. The mini market is flooded with mediocre stallions, and as prudently pointed out... If I can spend $1000 on a Grand Champion's stud fee, why would I breed to an $800 colt?

I think buying a $1000 colt as a fun learning project is just fine... I do predict you'll want to upgrade if you enjoy showing minis though!

Good luck to you!

Andrea