New Mini Mommy

[Mickey & Mouse]

Hi, I am new to mini's but I do have riding horses. I have a little man who is about 7 months who I have wormed two times as per my vet and he still has cowpatty poops. He does try and suckle his little stall mate who was weaned at the same time. They both had worms and bot fly larvea when they came to my home. I just don't know what else could be causing the mucky behind? He was getting a lot better after I wormed him the first time but then last Friday it started again so I wormed him as per vet and it has helped a bit but it still isn't great. He gets good hay which is about a 60/40 alfalfa mix as well as 60-40-10 grain mix. I have tried the powered probiotic as well peptobismol. I am just at a loss. I have had them for one month now and have managed to put some weight on them as well as they were very underweight. I have no problems with his little friend only with him.

His little back legs were also not working properly as he was almost rolling with them but I did get a barefoot trimmer out and it was a miracle as now he is walking perfect.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

Tammy

 

[Jean_B]

You don't say how much grain you are giving, but there is a possibility that if these guys were very underweight - you might be trying to pump too much high-quality food into them too fast and their mal-nourished gutts aren't able to handle it yet. Personally, I found my horses did better once they got VERY little alfalfa - it's too hot and tends to give them the squirts. I much prefer Bermuda or orchard grass, especially for minis (I used to have AQHA horses too). JMO

Sounds like you are trying to be a very good "new mom" and these guys are lucky to have found someone who cares!!

 

[Matt73]

Ditto what Jean_B said. I'd feed good quality grass hay and have it front of him at all times for now. Once he gains weight etc., then switch to the 60/40 hay and start giving grain (I feed a ration balancer...great for minis and ponies as it's low in starch and sugars). Also, what did you worm him with?

P.S. My filly developed what is thought to be ulcers, after a bout with PHF this past summer. Omeprezole (Gastroguard) for 28 days did the trick. I asked my vet if I should switch her to strictly grass hay and he said that, actually, alfalfa is the best hay to give to a horse with ulcers...Go figure

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=11596

 

[targetsmom]

First of all, welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of minis. Many of us came from the big horse world and feeding minis can be a challenge compared to that. Sounds like these minis are very lucky to have found you!

I don't have much advice to give, although it sounds like Jean-B has the right idea. I think the safest thing because it is most like nature, is grass hay - or grass - available at all times. I am currently dealing with a mini with ulcers and I know how frustrating it can be to find the right diet. One product you might look into is Stomach Soother, which is simply pureed papaya. It is supposed to help ulcers, diarrhea and a host of other ailments, plus it tastes delicious (people have told me). Very useful for getting medications in them too. I give it to foals to help them through the stress of weaning. http://www.stomachsoother.com/.

Good luck!

 

[Charlotte]

Welcome here! You'll find a lot of good advice here. Many times different advice, but all good. Sometimes you just have to try things and see what works for your horse.

I'm going to suggest giving those kids a feed specifically designed for their age. They are babies yet and not ready to digest adult food. I use Progressive Growth Formula and have been very happy with the results. Pruina makes a JR feed as do most of the feed companies. I would try that with a good grass hay. They need the nutrition in the Junior feeds and they need it in a form that they can utilize.

To get control of the 'runs' you might want to give a dose of Biosponge once or twice per day till the bowels firm up. Then see if they will stay firm.

good luck with your little ones.

Charlotte

 

[Mickey & Mouse]

Update:

After a weekend of washing poopy butt, he has managed to stay clean. I have cut out his grain ration for now and he is getting hay only as well as a chaser of fresh papaya which he is not impressed with

He is really full of it and is playing lots with his buddy. I am really hoping that it was maybe a worm hatch that was missed with the first worming (that is what the vet thought). If all goes well, I will be able to do the christmas photo's from all angles

I will keep everyone posted.

I have been trying to upload a picture of the boys but can't figure out how to do it, advise please

Cheers

Tammy

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Mini's and foals in particular are vacuums, and tend to eat/get into all sorts of things. Biosponge is a great product, we've also given older foals Foal Response as it has probiotics in it. It's designed for newborns, but we've had much less of an issue with loose manure giving it to the foals - no foal heat diarrhea issues, etc. My favorite probiotic is Fastrack and you can get it in a variety of forms. We give it to any that are on antibiotics as well as those with loose manure.

As for feed, I'm a firm believer in alfalfa for Minis, but also feed high quality grass hay and pasture. Honestly though, depending on your area, you need to judge what the best quality forage is available. I'm in Northern CA, alfalfa is grown here, but my really good grass hay comes from Nevada (and costs more than alfalfa).

Some Mini's seem to be more prone to intestinal issues. We have one now age 10, that had a bad experience with an ex-farrier her first trim, she'd get projectile diarrhea every time the new farrier came for about three years.

Good luck with your new Minis!

 

[Kelsey - Vandy's Farm]

Cow-pie type poop can also be a textbook symptom for sand. You may want to check his manure for sand and feed him psyllium. We feed our horses psyllium daily.

 

[Mickey & Mouse]

So we are back to a messy behind again, I think it is sand as well. I tried to get some sand clear but my horse store does not even know what it is. I have did a bit of surfing and have read that you can give metamucil? Is this correct, as I will go at noon and buy some. How much would I give?

Thank you

 

[vickie gee]

I have a filly that was having a terrible time with "squirts" back in the fall. I gave her probiotics (which helped) until I could make the two hour trip to my vet that could scope her. He took a specimen which actually tests for a dozen or so types of bacteria and sent it off to be analyzed. This was to protect the herd. Negative for bacteria. The scope showed signs of colitis which was pretty much healing well. He called it ulcerative colits and we did three weeks of gastroguard. He said the probiotics probably did help. He said to start using sand clear on all the horses because "all horses in Texas have sand in their tummies until proven otherwise". She seems to be fine now. Her tail was so nasty until we cleared it up though. I sympathize with you. Hers began shortly after a bout with mild colic which was brought on by 4th of July fireworks from the home across the highway. Not just fireworks but lots of kids screaming and spotlights being shined across our pasture. Two of the horses suffered colic the next day. After that she had tummy upset until I did all of the stuff mentioned. Hope yours gets better. I know how it is to worry about them.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

You do not say what you have wormed with, or how much of it, this info would be useful, as would approx how much your babies weigh, and when they were weaned.

Sorry, got ahead of myself there, WELCOME!

I do tend to pile in on problems, just a bit!

OK, as said, some more info would be great, and you have come to the right place for help.

I do find that there seems to be a big problem, in Minis specifically, with exactly what you are experiencing, and it does sometimes turn out to be worms and incorrect feeding, but I have found it can also be down to what I refer to as "Immature gut syndrome", I use grass/alfalfa pellets, soaked, to help combat this, in both my unweaned and my weaned foals. So far I have managed to avoid the majority of the runs that a lot of foals get. I have also found that foals react differently to the stress of weaning, some wean with no problems, some stress out and this stress is not always shown by the text book running around crying. Sometimes they just hang out with their buddies, are maybe a bit quieter than the others, and they poop!

You have the ideal situation, with two babies together, where one will help the other get over his problems.

Now we just have to find out what that problem is!

So, to recap:

What exactly are you/were you feeding, quantities and number of times fed.

Approx weight of the foals

What did you worm with and how much.

Don't worry, we'll sort this out!

 

[mizbeth]

I agree this could be a sand problem. I have had several horses over the years get runny poos and it has been a result of sand ingestion. I have given them sand clear and it has cleared up. I also had a weanling filly two years ago who started runny poops, very soon after she was born. I tried probios, antibiotics, biosponge and literally nothing helped. I finally took her and mom OFF THE SAND, stalled them with straw/hay bedding and the runs stopped. I think some of them are more sensitive to this sort of thing than others.

The soil where I am is very sandy.......but I do not think you have to be in sandy soil to have this problem.

Good luck to you! Hope this stops soon, just5 make sure baby stays hydrated. I give mine gatorade several times a day.

 

[Mickey & Mouse]

I wormed them with Ivermectin and they were done twice with 3 weeks in between. Mouse had a bladder infection and his previous owner gave him antibiotics. The vet put him on 7 days of novotrim to help his tummy plus I was giving him a probiotic and peptobismol ( the vet said it was okay to do so).

I feed him and his buddy 2 flakes of 60/40 alfalfa hay in the the morning and then 2 more at night. I have cut out his grain ration which was the oat, corn, barley mix and I was feeding them about 2 cups each daily. They were underweight but they have beefed up a bit some I had them.

I think that it is sand as well but I can't purchase any Sand Clear here, I will order some from the U.S.A. but until then I have to do something. His butt was not to bad over the past 2 days but it is always a guessing game.

Can I give him Metamucil?? Please let me know and I will go and get some at noon.

Thank you

 

[mizbeth]

Yes, you can give metamucil. Not sure of dosage though. I filled a 12 cc syringe with powder up to 1/2, had the horse tied then dipped the syringe in water and pulled. Then inserted it quickly in the horses mouth as it gels up quickly. Not sure that is enough, too little, but it helped. Not sure they will eat the powder either so wanted to make sure it was ingested so decided to do it that way.

Someone else can help with proper amount to give them.....but yes, you can use it.

 

[chandab]

Ok, if this worked right, the link should take you to a previous LB discussion about sand clearing products, including info on how much Metamucil...

Metamucil discussion

I just recently tried walmart brand metamucil, in regular flavor and my gelding just eats it up with his feed (its not flavored, but is sweetened). My farrier recommended regular, as it doesn't have much flavor, so they shouldn't really notice it with their feed. And, thanks to the above discussion, I just read, I now know I likely wasn't using enough.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Even if it is sand, and I am the first to say I have no experience of sand problems as I am lucky enough to not only have grass all year but I am on clay, it would be an idea if you did the Fenbendazole (Guard) five day course of wormer and also gave a tapewormer (Praziquantel, by choice) Are you aware of the dangers of Moxidectin (Quest) in Minis, and is your Vet aware of them (A lot of people here, myself included, have had to educate our Vets on these matters, also the use of Bute. I am lucky again in that I now have a Vet who trained on Minis in Oz)

 

[Mickey & Mouse]

Hi,

The bute I know can't be given to minis. But the wormer I did not know about. Can you please tell me about the wormer.

Thank you

 

[Sandee]

Hi,

The bute I know can't be given to minis. But the wormer I did not know about. Can you please tell me about the wormer.

Thank you

Moxidectin (which is the ingredient in Quest) is VERY weight specific and since it is difficult to judge minis weight, it is easy to overdose them - often fatal.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

It's a bit more complicated than that, which is why it so potentially dangerous. The drug works by being absorbed into the body fat and being released over 13 weeks.

Since a lot of people are paranoid about their minis weight (MY personal slant on that btw

) a lot of Minis carry virtually no body fat, so you can weigh the horse accurately and still poison it by having the Moxidectin (which is a poison, as are all wormers, they kill worms...) dumped into the system in one go. I imagine the same would be true for horses living in really hot climates, and I am thinking here of the Middle East and parts of places such as India, where the horses to our eyes at first look really thin, even when they are in good condition...they carry absolutely (or next to) no body fat, so I am assuming, but do not know, that the BH related problems that have occurred with this drug are from these places?

I am really not too sure why it is still on the market, I have used it and had no problems, but I would not consider using it agian, I was just really lucky! (I have fat horses, too, of course

)

 

[Margo_C-T]

I am also a firm believer in feeding 'some' alfalfa, along with grass hay; that said, it is VITAL that both hays be of EXCELLENT quality, especially for youngsters! The grass could/should be offered free choice, though not the alfalfa. I also agree with using a formulated 'JUNIOR' feed, too...not simply a grain mixture.

I have used a psyllium(what Metamucil and Walmart's version are made of)product since before they started making a formula for horses(although right now, I feed a stabilized ground FLAX seed, which will perform a similar function-to help move sand/dirt on out of the intestines).I liked the Walmart 'equate'in a 'no-sugar' formula; it is orange-flavored, and I never had a horse refuse it, though you should introduce it slowly if top-dressing it. My vet told me NOT to add water to it, as you want the 'gel-ing' to occur INSIDE the horse's gut, so I stirred it dry into their concentrate(as in, the Junior feed.)

Agree w/ Jane(rabbitsfizz) on fenbendazole(SafeGuard or Panacur),but would suggest alternating that, along with a pyrantel pamoate(Strongid P)paste w/ an ivermectin dewormer...don't know that I'd recommend the 5 day fenbendazole(actually, it's a double dose by weight for 5 days in a row)until the horse is a bit older--say, a full year. Deworming every 30 days is often recommended during the first year of life, alternating these three 'families' of chemicals; ask your vet. Do NOT use "QUEST"(moxidectin) for minis, ever---period.

I believe in the benefits of probiotics, administered when needed; don't think they'd be needed every day, but perhaps, a couple of times a week until the horse 'levels out', then generally only during stress situations/after deworming or antibiotics.I've never used Biosponge, but have read/heard that one should be cautious with its use, and not 'overuse' it...

You can check for sand by finding a FRESH, uncontaminated fecal ball or two, drop into a latex glove or even a clear glass jar with plenty of water, let 'sit' for a few hours. You can 'feel' sand in the fingertips of a glove, and 'should be' able to see it in the bottom of a glass jar(I think the glove works best.)

Your concern for your little guy's well-being is admirable; best wishes!

Margo (who has been doing 'horse care'daily for nearly 60 years)