New mini gelding a real kicker...literally!

[welovemini's]

Good morning,

I have been a lurker and have thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's posts! My family and I have just purchased our first mini's. My 2 daughters have been a part of the local 4-H mini club for the past year and a half, and we have all completely fallen in love with them. Anyways we have 2 young geldings: Amado (3) and Charlie Horse (2) which are total sweethearts! The oldest of the two has claimed dominance and will kick and nip at the other. This mainly happens during feeding but Amado can be a bit of a bully at times. Yesterday while feeding my 14 yr daughter was kicked by Amado, she was startled and now a bit sore but she's fine. Amado's ears were not back and his kick wasn't full force, but it was a kick. How do I stop this behavior of kicking..is there a way? I know there is a certain risk that you accept when working with horses, but I want to stop any bad behavior before it gets out of hand. I will take any help I can get!!

Thanks!! Lisa

 

[lucky seven]

How long have you had them? I bought mine a year and a half ago and was told upon delivery that he had a food aggression problem. It took a year but now I am able to be around him without him kicking at me. We have an invisible line that we don't cross, if I do, he backs up to kick. He is afraid you are going to take his food. The others here probably have good methods to change the behavior but with me time and a lot of work has made things better. In the beginning my boy would charge at me across his paddock with ears pinned meaning business. He cornered me quite a few times until we worked things out. Good luck.

 

[Ashley]

kick him back

 

[welovemini's]

We have had them for almost 3 weeks. We bought them from our 4-H leader from a herd of about 20 or so. Amado has always been calm and sweet tempered even when he was a stallion. He isn't really aggressive when he's kicking..if that makes sense, its almost as if he's just annoyed and wants us to know our "place". Obviously that has to change. Other than the kicking he is very sweet and loveable.

 

[lucky seven]

The herd of 20 didn't help, he probably had to fight some for his food, but no matter what, he cant keep up that behavior.

 

[txminipinto]

Is he obviously kicking at humans or are humans just getting between him and his buddy?? When feeding our mares, we have to be aware of where we are as we dump feed out and where the witchy mares are. I've had pinned ears and threats around me but they weren't DIRECTED AT ME but at another mare that approached from my other side. If that's the case, just make sure not to walk between horses when feeding (shouldn't do that anyway, its just asking for trouble).

BUT, if he's directing at you on purpose there are a couple of things you can do:

1) stall him and feed him where you don't have to enter the stall.

2) if you can't stall, carry a riding whip with you and make ALL horses stand back as you feed. Chase them off, pop them on the butt, whatever but do not let anyone in your space until you walk away from the feed bucket. If that doesn't help, pop him on the butt and chase him off like an alpha mare and keep him off the feed until he submits.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Ashley has got it dead right!

Kick him back.

Start off by feeding them separately so he has not the excuse of bullying the other horse- you can do this easily merely be tying each horse up by their feed bin.

This has the added advantage that the "guilty" horse cannot run away out of reach.

Now, as you approach each horse (the other may do it as well, most horses try at least once) watch them closely for any signs of aggression, flattened ears, face pulling etc and if they do this make yourself big and tall, take a strong step towards them and stamp your foot. If the older gelding offers to kick again turn round, back in, squeal like a stuck pig and kick out at him. Honestly, you will not hurt him and you are meeting him more than half way by speaking hislanguage so there can be no misunderstandings.

If you just stand up to him he will deflate- you will not get him kicking back, believe me, he will just think "Oh, OK, she's the boss around here, fine" and that should be the end of it. You may then have to go through the same thing with the other one, as once you have deposed the older one as "top dog" the younger one may try to move up the social ladder!

Once they are sorted, they should stay sorted, as they sound to be sensible, nice boys in other ways.

Give them a job to do, buy a cart!!

 

[txminipinto]

Let me further explain:

By stalling him, you take away the need to be aggressive for food. Nobody can get his food but him. This may releave some of his stress around food. On the other hand, we have a stallion that is very food aggressive IN his stall. Opens his mouth, shakes his head at you, and if you don't feed him fast enough will try to bite you. With him, I kicked him out with the bred broodmares who quickly taught him that he is NOT the first to eat. With him in the pasture, I can dump feed in his bucket, stand by his head, and scratch him. In the barn, you throw it from a distance.

I have NEVER had a horse get aggressive over hand fed grain. It has always been at normal feed times carrying a bucket down the barn aisle or through a pasture. The aggression comes from the threat of someone else getting their food before they do. I don't know why our stud is aggressive in the barn. Perhaps because there are horses on both sides of him and he can't "escape". In the pasture, the pans are spread out so that everyone can have one without getting into each others' personal space. Plus, I always have 1 extra pan with feed in it as they like to chase each other off. That way, no one goes hungry.

Regardless of how you correct the behavior, its important to remember that the feed is the reward. Withhold ALL feed from him until he is respectful and he should eventually learn. Just remember that some animals are very territorial around food and this may be something you have to just manage and not "cure". If you can avoid the situation, it never becomes a situation and the threat eventually resolves itself sometimes. I'll be testing this theory with our own stallion when I bring him back into the barn after a couple weeks of mareducation.

 

[welovemini's]

Thank you everyone,

Amado has never shown any aggression toward people at all, he usually just bullies the other gelding...not terribly, but he deffinatly wants to be seen as the leader. My daughter was putting hay in the hay rack and he kind of just backed up and got her. Like I said before, his ears werent back, he didn't charge her, it was just kind of like "yeah I'm here and I'm the boss" kind of thing. This behaviour does seem to come out most around feeding time, we will definitely be making changes as I will not tolerate this from him.

 

[Marty]

I agree with everyone so far and as you can see there are a lot of ways to handle this.

Here's my two cents. There is no way I would set up horses to feed closely together. I know it is done but not here. I firmly believe that when it comes to feeding, a horse should have his very own place, a stall, to be able to relax and eat in peace without the threat that someone is going to take my food away. I wouldn't like sitting down to dinner and having to gulp my feed down because someone is waiting to knock me a good one out of my plate and not let me finish.

I also don't believe in bothering horses while they are eating either; brushing, cleaning feet etc; However they should tolerate if need be. You have no control when a horse is loose so bring the little monster in his stall to eat with a halter and lead rope on and tie him up while he eats. When he makes a move with those hind legs, correct him. I do believe in the 3 second rule that you only have 3 seconds to react so you will have to be ready and correct him while he is in the act. Best wishes and good luck.

 

[Riverrose28]

You've gotten some really good responses but I think Marty's is the best.

Be very carful if you want to kick your mini when they threaten. I used to do this too, until I met my match. I had a yearling filly turn her rear to me at feeding out in the paddock, she lifted a leg and had her head cocked towards me. I kicked her in the rear and she then came at me with both barrels blazing. She got me in the thigh as I'm a senior and couldn't move fast enough. I had to do chores for a week using my cane. So next time she threatened me I had a driving whip with me and I waloped her good, no more problems with her. Just saying be careful, if that is your approach.

 

[HGFarm]

Yep I would carry a short crop and the correction must be immediate- not a minute later, with a loud and firm NO. Keep one eye on the horse all the time, and ready to correct at any given moment. Two things never tolerated at my place from a horse old enough to know better- kicking and biting. Can't stand either one.

 

[welovemini's]

Great responses! Thank you so much, I will be off to get a crop and I'll have my eye on him at all times. I'm up to the challenge!! When we first got him 3 weeks ago he would nip constantly...we stood our ground and he is a very fast learner! Not a nip in over 2 weeks! I am on a mission to live in harmony with him. He's a good boy and in my opinion worth it!! Thanks again!

 

[Kimster]

I do not tolerate that type of behavior in my barn from any of my horses big or little - i agree i would kick him back - i realize you hate to correct them at times however, it is not worth getting hurt over - just because they are little they can still hurt someone bad - I have seen a mini strike face level with a child - that horse would be leaving my barn - local horse sale - good luck - remember there are more good horses out there - i would not chance my daughter getting hurt