Need help with a problem

[sundaymom]

I need some help on what I should do from here. In June I bought a mare off Lil Beginnings that was 2 years old and pregnant. The owners assured me she was sound and that they had got the filly from Lane Kobeck, a well known breeder of horses. Well when I got mare home she showed signs of a stiffle problem in hind leg. When I asked about this the previous owners assured me I was wrong and she must have gotten kicked. It seemed to come and go so felt maybe this was true.

Last week we got a cold snap and the poor mare, heavy pregnant, is now dragging both legs and can hardly get around. I have had to pen her up at night due to other horses, not knowing she can't move, and thinking shes testing pecking order, charge her.

I talked to vet office and they say highly unlikely a mare reached her age and never showed any sighs before now. I emailed previous owners with info and she still denies she knew anything but to make me happy will give me a registered Tovero stallion, (which I have no use for). When I emailed back that I felt the only fair thing was for me to return mare and get my money back, I have heard nothing in reply.

Any suggestions on what I should do from here.

 

[Ashley]

Well a honest breed would do what they think is right.

I havent had to deal with that problem before but thought I hae herd that pregnacy can sometimes cause that.

However if they wont take the mare back, then you foal her out and she either becomes a pet or you sell her.

 

[Chynagurl8]

Is this mare getting any exercise? the mare in my avatar was having stifle problems at the beginning of the year and it was simply because she wasn't getting adaquate exercise over the winter and because she was still growing, which threw a few things off.

This is another reason why 2 year-olds shouldn't be bred (not saying this is your fault). As far as a return/refund, this very well could have been brought on the her gaining weight and not running as much because of her pregnancy. I would not stall her at night but put her in a seperate paddock if you can, the more they move the better.

(Note this is just my experience with stifle problems, I'm not by any means a professional.)

 

[Ashley]

Well again, never had the problem. I do feel thou any horse that had stifle problems at any age shouldnt be used for breeding.

We have bred 2 year olds and never had this problem. In fact have a 2 year old in foal for next year. But our horses are never stalled unless foaling or sick.

I dont really beleive in stalling them unless its absolutly necessary.

Oh and as for breeding 2 year olds, we havent had foaling problems either, most have been even better then prooven mares.

 

[Miniv]

I disagree regarding 2 year olds..... Many have some growing still to do and then add to that having to handle supporting a pregnancy both nutritionally and weightwise, may be the cause of the stifle problem. (We have bred at age 2 in the past, but now prefer to wait. I think in the long run it's better for the filly.)

If I were in your shoes, I'd be making sure she stretches her legs, but not over excersizing her. I'd also include some backing for her - as that sometimes helps.

Talk to your vet about some feed supplements that may help too.

Not sure what to recommend regarding dealing with the seller......

MA

 

[Dona]

Don't be too quick to jump on the seller. I had a little mare once that I bought as a yearling, that didn't show ANY signs of stifle problems until she was heavy in foal for the first time. So, it's definitely possible that they are telling you the truth when they say they saw no signs of it before. And no...I didn't go back on the people who sold me the filly. It appeared well after I bought her, so I know they could not have had any idea it would show up.

I think that sometimes this doesn't show up in horses until they are heavy in foal & the added weight aggravates the condition.

As to what kind of compensation you expect....unless you can prove that the horse actually DID have this condition prior to your purchase & the seller was aware of it.....and you & the seller had a written contract that guaranteed a replacement or money back if the mare turned out to not be"sound"...I'm afraid there's not much you can do. Most breeders do not offer money back..they will offer another horse in trade or discount another purchase. Sounds like they already offered this. Maybe they have another horse for sale that they will discount for you?

 

[Joyce]

Since this young mare is pregnant, I would have to give the sellers the benefit of the doubt here for the time being. As a 2 year old, she has been bred young and hasn't stopped growing herself and then the added weight of the foal she is carrying, changing homes etc. could be causing the stifle problem you are writing about. Since you have made the seller aware of the problem, I would email or call them and tell them that you will wait until the foal is born and then if she still has it, they might be willing to make an xchange with you, pay for the stifle surgery or some other compensation. Make sure she has plenty of exercise.

JMO

Joyce

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

I need some help on what I should do from here.  In June I bought a mare off Lil Beginnings that was 2 years old and pregnant.  The owners assured me she was sound and that they had got the filly from Lane Kobeck, a well known breeder of horses.  Well when I got mare home she showed signs of a stiffle problem in hind leg.  When I asked about this the previous owners assured me I was wrong and she must have gotten kicked.  It seemed to come and go so felt maybe this was true. 
Last week we got a cold snap and the poor mare, heavy pregnant, is now dragging both legs and can hardly get around.  I have had to pen her up at night due to other horses, not knowing she can't move, and thinking shes testing pecking order, charge her. 

I talked to vet office and they say highly unlikely a mare reached her age and never showed any sighs before now.  I emailed previous owners with info and she still denies she knew anything but to make me happy will give me a registered Tovero stallion, (which I have no use for).  When I emailed back that I felt the only fair thing was for me to return mare and get my money back, I have heard nothing in reply.

Any suggestions on what I should do from here.

491780[/snapback]

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Well i would say it is very possible for a 2 yr old to not show any signs of a stifle issue until that age in fact it isnt uncommon at all IMO I would have to say also that stalling her can make it worse the more room she has to walk around the better usually- but let me be clear and in no way in anything i have known or found or read or talked to vets about stalling doesnt = leg issues. I know many hear opt not to and that is fine but many top horses in fact the top olympic horses and top show horses are stalled and are more then at the top of there game. (off topic i know but just needed to make that clear)

I am not saying the seller knew or didnt but that it is not uncommon for those problems to show up around 2 or 3 they arent always present young. and perhaps her being bred and extra weight could be making it worse?

I am not sure what I would do as a seller either to be honest assuming I didnt know the horse had stifle issues I might lower the price if payments were being made of offer a certain amount in farm credit maybe?

I bought a horse that is HUGE now he may go over 38 well ok he is right at 38 now and still young. I have people saying did you tell the seller well he was a weanling when i bought him i knew he would be a B and she has no control over how much he grows or doesnt. She was honest and it is one of those things heck his dam is only 30 in tall he is just a bit on the mutant side

no ones fault, no one was dishonest in fact the opposite the seller is a wonderful person sometime life just happens and this could very well be the case with your horse

 

[mountain_waif]

....

 

[Michelle@wescofarms]

Stifle problems can show up at different times while a horse is still young. One thing you may want to discuss with your vet is the selenium levels in your area. If you're in a low selenium area, or your horse is getting inadequate amounts, this can contribute to stifle problems.

The added weight from pregnancy on a young mares still growing bones can also be a factor.

The same goes for lack of exercise. I have seen that with 1-2 year olds as they grow they may lock, start clicking, etc. Rest for a few days (not confinement, but not rambunctious play with their pals), has always resulted in immediate relief and the two I had here, neither never showed a sign of locking, clicking anything every again.

As for inheritablility that is a possiblity. A breeder I knew never had a problem with two of her stallions, but when the get from the two crossed - stifle problems. I had two colts from this line and both were gelded as they locked terribly on and off. They're apparently fine at their new home and did not require surgery. A third one was surgically corrected and drives, etc., now.

I'd also like to mention here in defense of sellers (I don't know the individuals involved), but when a seller says a horse didn't act that way, have that problem, etc., it may very well be true. A passive mini at one place can be a holy terror at another, depending on its treatment, other minis, housing, feeding, etc. The same for physical problems - a horse use to being stalled thrown out to live on the range may suffer or the reverse. So unless identical homes are provided, things can change alot for a horse from home to home.

 

[sundaymom]

Thanks everyone for your replies. The previous owner has contacted me and though she does not want mare back, is being nice about the problem. She says she dosen't have the money to give back and she has nothing I wish to obtain, so I guess thats the end of that.

Perhaps she did not know of problem, who's to know now. Maybe it is caused by the pregnancy, for she was 2 April 3rd and was bred in Feb and March. My vet office never mentioned that a stiffle problem could be caused by a pregnancy. I will make a mental note not to purchase bred filly's or breed any filly's in the future, until they are over 2 years old just in case.

You have all been a big help in calming my upsets, at least for now. I'll wait and see what happens with this foal.

 

[lyn_j]

[SIZE=14pt]A side note to this problem,,,,,just making you aware.....if this is an AMHR mare, you may have trouble registering the baby since it will be born before her third birthday ........ meaning she was bred BEFORE her second birthday. Not 100% positive but that is what I was told.[/SIZE]

Lyn

 

[Ashley]

LYn,

The foal can be registured just fine. She will just have to wait until the mares actual 3rd birthday to send in the work for the foal.

The mare was 2 as of Jan 1 and was bred in Feb./March, so she was a legal 2 year old.

Shouldnt be any problems registureing her.

 

[Marty]

I don't claim to know anything, but I did have two rescues here that I fostered that had bad stifles. I put them on glucosemine in their grain and Purina 12 12 minerals and left them outside with a run in shelter. Seemed to me, when it rained they were hurting but when it was sunny and warm they did a lot better.

According to your post your vet hasn't seen the mare yet. You just spoke to the office. I'd have the vet come and atleast take a look and do an exam to verify and also, maybe recommend giving her something that may help her that is safe for a bred mare. Possibly some sort of glucosemine may help, I don't know but do ask. Also do be sure you have plenty of salt and mineral blocks out and free choice minerals as well.

 

[Wee Mite Miniatures]

The one thing I do not see mentioned in any of the responses it to have her feet done. Sometimes if the back hooves are too long it can cause a problem that will disappear as soon as the feet are done.

With a pregnant mare they sometimes are not moving as well as they normally do. They do not always pick the back feet up as high as they used to. A longer hoof will add to this problem. Keep them short and square off the front of the hoof. That might help her some.

 

[sundaymom]

Just wanted to update to replies. I have 12-12 available at all times along with a white block. I have hoofs done every 6 weeks by a farier I have had for 8 years. In fact he is the one, when I brought home this mare in June, that first mentioned she might have a stiffle problem in her hind leg. At that time was only one leg. When the cold snap came she started dragging both legs and pulling herself along with front legs for several feet until one leg would snap and then she would walk normal. Seemed to only happen if she stopped to graze for a period and then start off again. We are now having a warm up period and yesterday and today she showed no signs.

When I talked to vet I didn't mention she was heavy pregnant (not realizing this could be contributing problem) and thus this might be reason he felt someone must have known about this problem before. Monday I will call him back and explain what I have found out.

After reading everything I contacted owner and told her that due to information I now had, from all of you, that there was a possibiltiy that she didn't know so I would just eat the lose and not bother her again.

Thanks again for the very nice responses which helped me to understand a lot more than I did before.