my shepard ruff housed 4 week old colt !

[iluvwalkers]

hi, i was wanting some opinions. about 30 minutes ago i went out to find my 80 lb shepard "playing" with my 4 wk old colt. he has in the past got in with my mini stallion and they ruff house. i always make him get out of course. anyway my inlaws pulled in and saw him grabbing the baby on the top of his neck and pulling on him, like he was a dog and they were wrestling. mama was just standing there like it was no big deal.

we got the baby in and he has several tooth marks on either side of his mane. we cleaned them up and put iodine on them and they seem to be superficial. my concern is how he is acting, obviously he is VERY exhausted, mentally and phyically. he just isn't acting himself, rightly so. i am just not sure what else i should do? thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Charlotte]

Make sure the dog is permanently fenced off from the horses. He will attack again.

It sounds like you just about had a dead foal. The foal is probably ok if you don't see much in the way of injuries and if the dog didn't shake him which could cause internal injuries.

Let baby rest with his mom and just keep an eye on him. Is he nursing ok?

Charlotte

 

[iluvwalkers]

OF COURSE the dog will be kept away from the horses.

and yes he is nursing i just checked on him, he is just very tired which is scary.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

OMG, this could of been ANOTHER one of the horrible posts that have been on here about dogs and minis! PLEASE KEEP YOUR DOGS LOCKED AWAY from your minis. Even if you think your dog would never hurt them..it does happen and has happened to forum members. I would never allow my dogs to play or ruff house with ANY of my horses. Please keep a very close eye on your colt, and if he was mine I would be having him checked over by a vet ASAP. Hope everthing will be Ok. Please let us know how he is doing. Corinne

 

[Jean_B]

I'm sorry -- but once a dog starts any sort of this activity - you CANNOT break them of it. Either get rid of the dog or put it down. You don't have eyes in the back of your head. This dog is no different than one that we used to call a "chicken killer". They get a taste for blood - they don't quit. Just ask Tony or Laura!

 

[MyBarakah]

Your baby is VERY lucky to be alive~! Once a dog gets a taste for that stuff.... the damage is done! Almost impossible to break a dog of that... And the only answer is to obviuosly, to have the horses pen dog proof! And some dogs have it bred into them (that hearding or killing instinct)...

I have a welsh pembroke corgi, Flash.... a small dog.... and has been brought up as a very small puppy to understand and respect cats/horses (animals).... Usually he has to watch out for the cats.... they like to chase him... some of my barn cats are bigger than him though! lol!

 

[Naira3284]

OK, dont put the dog down.

:

if the dog ment any harm ,the colt would have been dead in less than a minute. since you let him play with the minies before, you taught him that it was ok for him to play with them.

he dosent know that he has to be more gental with the little ones. "Once a dog gets a taste for that stuff" "They get a taste for blood - they don't quit" tipe of talk is BS. dogs can be trained to do, and not do just bout anything.

: . you just got to spent some time and let him know that playing with any of the minies is not going to be tolerated. Shepards tend to be very sensitive dogs, and he should cach on quick. just keep him away from the horses.

I know my dog thinks that my minies are little deer that hold still for him to get. :new_shocked: Thats why he will never get close to one with out me right there. Thats the responsible thing to do, for any large dog owner. not to pot the dog down. :no: that would be the easy and ignorant way out, at the animals expence.

just my two cents

Kristina

PS. how old is this dog, and how long have you had him.

PM me if you want some help, or info.

good luck.

 

[Minimor]

I agree with Jean. If the dog were mine it would be gone. Naira, that is exactly how many dogs start out killing foals (sheep, chickens, whatever)--it starts out playing, and then the play becomes too rough and the animal ends up dead or severely injured. The dog thinks that is great sport & will do it again any chance he gets. Once a dog has attacked (and/or killed) it's virtually impossible to train it not to do it again. Many people think they have trained the behavior out of the dog, and tragically they learn they weren't as successful as they thought. They turn their back on the dog & get busy with something else for 5 minutes, and the dog is after the horses. Or, they vow to keep the dog locked up/tied up, away from the animals it attacked previously, then someone leaves the gate open, or doesn't fasten the chain properly, and the dog gets loose & attacks again.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

I'm afraid there is no way round this one, you are being told these horrid things from gut wrenching experience, not from some desire to make you feel bad.

There have been a couple of incidences lately when LGD, who had been with the horses all their lives and whose sole purpose was to guard the horses, turned on them and hunted them down.

There have been far, far too many cases of pet dogs killing horses.

Dogs cannot be be "trained out" of this- it is instinct and, one it has happened it will happen again.

The only reason you do not have a dead foal is that the dog does not have a particularly high prey drive and so did not go straight in for the kill.

Had you not got there in time the foal would have been luckier if the dog had had a high prey drive as then at least it's end would have been quick.!!!

Make NO mistake, this is deathly serious.

The dogs was NOT "playing".

The dog now needs to be kept away 24/7- I would not even have a dog like that around my horses when I was with him- a GSD would be pretty well impossible to stop if it started in earnest.

You know your dog better than we do, and I know how upsetting this is to you, on both counts.

The foal will quite probably be fine, he is with Mama and foals bounce back as easily as they crash.

The next time, when the dog gets out because you thought you had locked him in securely, or because he has dug or chewed his way out, the foal will not be so lucky.

Or maybe the neighbours foal.

You have to ask yourself how you would feel then.

I think the very first step would be to fence off the horses and to make the dog a pen it absolutely cannot get out of.

Make no mistake, you do have a potential killer on your hands, it is up to you to make sure he never reaches that potential.

 

[Cronewolf]

:new_shocked: Re-home with someone who doesn't have livestock. The dog was most likely playing, however with skin being broken it had gone past that and will only escalate from here. And no matter how carefull you are all it would take is a moment of someone being careless and the scene would be grim.

 

[Colagirl]

OK, dont put the dog down.

:

if the dog ment any harm ,the colt would have been dead in less than a minute. since you let him play with the minies before, you taught him that it was ok for him to play with them.

he dosent know that he has to be more gental with the little ones. "Once a dog gets a taste for that stuff" "They get a taste for blood - they don't quit" tipe of talk is BS. dogs can be trained to do, and not do just bout anything.

: . you just got to spent some time and let him know that playing with any of the minies is not going to be tolerated. Shepards tend to be very sensitive dogs, and he should cach on quick. just keep him away from the horses.

I know my dog thinks that my minies are little deer that hold still for him to get. :new_shocked: Thats why he will never get close to one with out me right there. Thats the responsible thing to do, for any large dog owner. not to pot the dog down. :no: that would be the easy and ignorant way out, at the animals expence.

just my two cents

Kristina

PS. how old is this dog, and how long have you had him.

PM me if you want some help, or info.

good luck.

I agree with this 100% Being responsible would be to make sure from now on that the dog is NEVER alowed near the foals unless you are there, but you really didnt need all these fingers wagging at you to tell you that did you???

: I would pm Kristina she sounds like she knows what she is talking about. All the best with him and your foals.

 

[mizbeth]

I agree with the others. Find this dog a new home NOW!

If the dog broke the skin on the foal you will need to call your vet. He will need treatment and antibiotics.

Good luck!

Beth

 

[angelridge]

I hope your foal is doing okay.I would very closely watch those bite holes,, I have been bitten by a dog and it felt like someone drove a 10 penny nail into my leg, it HURTS!

It starts out as playing but once the dog feels the intensity of his activity, they start to really enjoy it.

A dog behavior specialist may be able to help you, but still you could never let this dog run loose with small livestock. The dog sounds like it may be a younger dog,, maybe less than 5? Unless the dog is supervised constantly,, when your back is turned or you go get a drink or answer the phone, thats when it will happen,, I am sure no one means to sound so negative, but we have all experienced a dog attack before and there is no way to turn back. And they usually only intensify once a kill has been made. And not a lot of folks have the time to constantly watch a dog when they are out doing chores.

I had an Australian Shepherd once that seemed to play with our goats. They would run, he would run after them, but stop when they stopped and seemed just to enjoy the short chase, as he would then walk off when the goats seemed tired or no longer wanted to jump and play. Well one day I came home and the nanny was dead and the billly was injured, and the nanny was pregnant I was hoping to raise goats. I was so upset,, but I kept the dog, and got rid of the last goat, as the dog was fine with the big horses.

 

[Steph_D]

Do a search for on the forum "dog attack" and you can see the consequences. There are several new ones from this year and many of them have pictures.

Yes, you can train a dog to do a lot of stuff. Marty would say that her dogs (german shepherds) are very well trained, but she would NEVER trust them alone with her horses. So many people have lost horses this year to dog attacks, so why take the chance?

I hope you can get this worked out. I know it's hard to even be thinking about getting rid of the dog, but sometimes it's the right thing to do. If it would've been a child, the decision would've already been made

:

 

[SWA]

Hi,

So thankful your foal was not injured as bad as others have endured, and recent. If he was "rough housed" enough to have broken the skin with multiple tooth marks, he is likely also very bruised in those same areas. Like Barnbum suggested, if he were mine, I will feel better having him at least checked over by a vet. His listlessness may be more than just exaustion alone. Possibly due to strained muscles as well, hopefully not, but possible, with the force of the bites to have been enough to have broken the skin. His nursing is a good sign, but he might still need a vet "look see" at the very least.

As for your dog, if he were mine too, I would seriously begin efforts of finding a new home for him. One without livestock, and also one with no small children. That old addage "better safe, than sorry" rings loud and clear for situations like this, at least I hope.

I know it may have seemed harmless when these interactions were between your dog and older stallion. But, he's now learned that his dominance can be inflicted elsewhere. Training to subdue his behavior may only prolong the inevitable...but still most likely an "inevitable", with having heard your detail that he's already forced himself in such a way on your little guy as to cause injury with broken skin. He has learned this far now, and will only be an uphill battle to "train" him to resist his natural urges to give it another go. I know it was not your intention to be permissive of this behavior with your horses, but it has been nonetheless, and now he's crossed the line. Regretfully.

No way, could I bear to take chances in keeping him among my farm animals, or even to risk a neighbors should he ever have the chance to wander. As much as I would love for a dog taken in, to remain as such always...it would be better off for the potential safety of my animals, and for the dog's interests as well, to just avoid at all costs the "potential" that now very much does exist for him. He would be better off with a family that does not provide that potential for him to act upon...a home with no other animals, nor small children.

Hoping all the best for you in whatever you decide, and holding in prayers your colt will recover soon.

 

[stormo41]

OK, dont put the dog down.

:

if the dog ment any harm ,the colt would have been dead in less than a minute. since you let him play with the minies before, you taught him that it was ok for him to play with them.

he dosent know that he has to be more gental with the little ones. "Once a dog gets a taste for that stuff" "They get a taste for blood - they don't quit" tipe of talk is BS. dogs can be trained to do, and not do just bout anything.

: . you just got to spent some time and let him know that playing with any of the minies is not going to be tolerated. Shepards tend to be very sensitive dogs, and he should cach on quick. just keep him away from the horses.

I know my dog thinks that my minies are little deer that hold still for him to get. :new_shocked: Thats why he will never get close to one with out me right there. Thats the responsible thing to do, for any large dog owner. not to pot the dog down. :no: that would be the easy and ignorant way out, at the animals expence.

just my two cents

Kristina

PS. how old is this dog, and how long have you had him.

PM me if you want some help, or info.

good luck.

:

-Vanessa

 

[Pepipony]

Dont put the dog down and dont get rid of him. You have a covenant, so to speak, with that dog just as you do w/the horses. If you had a horse that decided it wanted to kick the dogs, bet you wouldnt get rid of it, even though that is just as serious. You allowed the dog to play w/your other mini , so he thinks its fine to do. You ned to set up boundries, both mental and physical for the dog. He needs to either be fenced in his own place or fenced out of the horses.

Playing so roughly can be trained out of him, I have 2 blue heelers that can attest to that. But you may have to get rough, may not be as easy as clicker training. But if its at the risk of a life, a sore arse isnt a problem. My heelers had a problem of chasing the horses ( big) so we used hubbys paintball gun. Took a few pops to the butt, but man did they learn right quick that chasing them, wasnt a good idea. If you have tried everything at your disposal to stop this habit and it wont, then you have done your part as a responsible owner and then is the time to think abotu re-homing your dog.

I am a little suprised how people can see things so purely in black and white. This = good, that = bad , nothing in between. Animals are just that, animals, and when we buy them we take them into our family and it is our job to train them. Not just discard them at the first sign of trouble. If we have to do that, then we just dont need to get another. If we couldnt take the time for the first, no sense bringing another in, its not fair to them.

And I DO SO GET that this can be a dangerous habit, so if you are going to flame me, read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote

:

 

[iluvwalkers]

i am really surprised, my question was not about my "attack" dog but rather about my sweet horse.

i am an aminal lover not just a horse lover and i know my dog. if his intention was to kill the baby he would have done it! i have had the dog since he was 10 weeks old and he is now 7. he has grown up with my children and has always been around horses, rabbits, kittens, goats and lots of other creatures.

i am not saying that the outcome could not have been the same weather he was playing or attacking but the taste of blood, come on. the dog will only be around my minis when we can watch him and as for him attacking others, we have no one within 20 miles with horses and he does not leave our proprty.

thank to anyone who answered my question about the baby. he is doing fine this morning, running around and nursing. i think he was really worn out. the marks on either side of his mane have little scabs. they are not puncture wounds, like i said before, they are superficial srapes.

Dont put the dog down and dont get rid of him. You have a covenant, so to speak, with that dog just as you do w/the horses. If you had a horse that decided it wanted to kick the dogs, bet you wouldnt get rid of it, even though that is just as serious. You allowed the dog to play w/your other mini , so he thinks its fine to do. You ned to set up boundries, both mental and physical for the dog. He needs to either be fenced in his own place or fenced out of the horses.

Playing so roughly can be trained out of him, I have 2 blue heelers that can attest to that. But you may have to get rough, may not be as easy as clicker training. But if its at the risk of a life, a sore arse isnt a problem. My heelers had a problem of chasing the horses ( big) so we used hubbys paintball gun. Took a few pops to the butt, but man did they learn right quick that chasing them, wasnt a good idea. If you have tried everything at your disposal to stop this habit and it wont, then you have done your part as a responsible owner and then is the time to think abotu re-homing your dog.

I am a little suprised how people can see things so purely in black and white. This = good, that = bad , nothing in between. Animals are just that, animals, and when we buy them we take them into our family and it is our job to train them. Not just discard them at the first sign of trouble. If we have to do that, then we just dont need to get another. If we couldnt take the time for the first, no sense bringing another in, its not fair to them.

And I DO SO GET that this can be a dangerous habit, so if you are going to flame me, read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote

:

thank you for seeing the WHOLE picture! i am SHOCKED at what i have been reading. thanks

 

[Lauralee]

Nobody here is trying to offend you, iluvwalkers.....

People here are only speaking from experience and trying to help you.....

You are free of course to do whatever you choose!

However please don't snap at those who are simply speaking out of experience that was painfully acquired.

 

[Shari]

Am very sorry for your mini and I am glad it will be ok.

But it is just as importent to talk about how and why your mini got hurt.

What will be shocking is the day your dog gets out and kills or maims your minis.

I have seen to many dog attacks to horses, sheep and children.

This is not a game, dogs are predators, they are not playing. They are practicing.

Don't give him away and end up having him harm someone else's animals or small child, they don't deserve to go through that. Once dogs start to attack, they will keep doing it.

He needs to be put down for the safety of others. Yes, it is hard to do, but the responsible thing to do.