iluvwalkers
Well-Known Member
have you read everything?
it was not a SNAP as you call it, i wrote the facts. thank you for your opinion.
my shepard ruff housed 4 week old colt !
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have you read everything?
it was not a SNAP as you call it, i wrote the facts. thank you for your opinion.
Shari
Well-Known Member
People are not trying to be rude like Lauralee said. They are scared your dog will kill one of your minis or hurt other animals. They don't want you to have to go through that.
Many of us have been through dog kills in the past. In my case it wasn't even my dog. It happend at the old farm.
Found out it was a dog, that had attacked people and other animals three times in the city so they sent it to the country. Where it killed my neighbors prized show rabbits and jumped my fort knox fence to kill a $1,000 dollar ewe before I shot it. It was horrible. If the dog was put down, niether my neighbor or I would of had to go through that.
Have known friends own dogs that killed my prized sheep on their place. They did not want to believe or listen to me either. Until their dog killed the sheep they bought from me. What a waste to, because they were out of my Ewe with the champion fleece.
I can go on and on about dog attacks.
Personally I do not want you to have to go through what I and others have. But it is up to you.
Many of us have been through dog kills in the past. In my case it wasn't even my dog. It happend at the old farm.
Found out it was a dog, that had attacked people and other animals three times in the city so they sent it to the country. Where it killed my neighbors prized show rabbits and jumped my fort knox fence to kill a $1,000 dollar ewe before I shot it. It was horrible. If the dog was put down, niether my neighbor or I would of had to go through that.
Have known friends own dogs that killed my prized sheep on their place. They did not want to believe or listen to me either. Until their dog killed the sheep they bought from me. What a waste to, because they were out of my Ewe with the champion fleece.
I can go on and on about dog attacks.
Personally I do not want you to have to go through what I and others have. But it is up to you.
Reble
Well-Known Member
Hope your mini is Ok this morning, We all love our animals even when they have done something wrong.
Again we where not asked, what to do about the dog.
: sorry for being blunt.
Check for temperture this morning, if the foal is Ok, just keep the sores cleaned.
Sounds like you did all the right things.
Thinking of your foal
: for a fast recovery.
Things do happen. Never ever give advice unless asked.
I am learning this also.
Again we where not asked, what to do about the dog.
Check for temperture this morning, if the foal is Ok, just keep the sores cleaned.
Sounds like you did all the right things.
Thinking of your foal
Things do happen. Never ever give advice unless asked.
I am learning this also.
T
Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too
Guest
Had it not been for your dog's behavior which is the root cause of the issue and why most addressed it, you wouldn't be asking what to do for your foal now but if you don't want opinions then why ask? Or at least preface it by saying you only want opinions that you can agree with.
:
Your foal was extremely stressed by the incident and you are lucky it wasn't so traumatized that it didn't come out of it--some don't. A very stressed prey animal can go into shutdown mode in preparation for impending death by a predator. It's natures way of shielding them from the horror of what is going to happen to them.
Dogs should never be allowed to roughhouse with any horse, which was your first mistake, as that is how they learn and practice more aggressive behavior. Most rational people can grasp the fact that this problem has been brewing with you dog for a long time and if you don't want to see it then of course that is your choice. No one wants to think their long time friend has a problem but it's that denial that can easily enable the progression to something worse. This was just the warning that finally got your attention. Thankfully, you do have another chance to head it off.
And the post about a convenant with the animal and the example given is totally off base. When a horse kicks it is to protect itself against a threat, a dog attack is just that an act of aggression and the two cannot be compared.
Your foal was extremely stressed by the incident and you are lucky it wasn't so traumatized that it didn't come out of it--some don't. A very stressed prey animal can go into shutdown mode in preparation for impending death by a predator. It's natures way of shielding them from the horror of what is going to happen to them.
Dogs should never be allowed to roughhouse with any horse, which was your first mistake, as that is how they learn and practice more aggressive behavior. Most rational people can grasp the fact that this problem has been brewing with you dog for a long time and if you don't want to see it then of course that is your choice. No one wants to think their long time friend has a problem but it's that denial that can easily enable the progression to something worse. This was just the warning that finally got your attention. Thankfully, you do have another chance to head it off.
And the post about a convenant with the animal and the example given is totally off base. When a horse kicks it is to protect itself against a threat, a dog attack is just that an act of aggression and the two cannot be compared.
Ah excuse me but isnt that off base? Did or did not this girl state that this was a game and NOT an attack? Playing and aggression are 2 different things
WISH PEOPLE WOULD READ WHAT WAS WRITTEN AND NOT WHAT THEY THINK THEY READ.
Or is it completely lost on us how many times people gripe, and rightfully so, about how they are attacked on this forum or PMs?
T
Triggy&Blue&Daisy Too
Guest
Ah we did read it but if you think it's OK to let a predatory animal "play" with a prey animal you have a lot to learn about dog behavior. The only difference between play and agression is the amount of practice and oportunity or have you never let a pup chew your hands and not discouraged the behavior.
iluvwalkers
Well-Known Member
thank you for opinions on my colt
. this has been a good learning experience, i now know never to post a question. i am new here but a quick study
!
Sue_C.
Well-Known Member
iluvwalkers, I am so glad to hear that your foal is doing well. that was so lucky for him, that you were there...maybe not so lucky, had you just run down to the store, or over to a friend's for coffee...
I see that you have taken offence to those who have tried to warn you of the dangers inherent with dogs and horses. Please, sit back, take a breath...and listen to what has been said.
Nobody is trying to make you out as a bad owner, of either the horses, or the dog...so if that's your worry...then let it go. As for KNOWING your dog...yes, perhaps you do, as much as we humans can...but what you don't know...is what that dog was thinking as it grabbed that foal hard enough to leave marks, on it's neck. Think in terms of escalation...
I also see that you are relatively new to this Forum, and I welcome you to the best place I know of, where you can learn so much about this wonderful breed. Please, take the time to browse this forum for "Dog attacks", and that might make you see just why everyone has "jumped into your business" here...and has so much to say.
Me? I have been lucky with my dogs. I have never had one who was allowed into the paddocks/pastures with the horses, and so far, they have all recognised the boundries. BUT...should I find myself owning one that doesn't...it shall be found a new home, without dhildren, or animals. In my opinion, a dog that has learned to mishandle animals, will eventually do the same with small children, and it just isn't worth the chance to me...to find myself proven right or wrong.
I see that you have taken offence to those who have tried to warn you of the dangers inherent with dogs and horses. Please, sit back, take a breath...and listen to what has been said.
Nobody is trying to make you out as a bad owner, of either the horses, or the dog...so if that's your worry...then let it go. As for KNOWING your dog...yes, perhaps you do, as much as we humans can...but what you don't know...is what that dog was thinking as it grabbed that foal hard enough to leave marks, on it's neck. Think in terms of escalation...
I also see that you are relatively new to this Forum, and I welcome you to the best place I know of, where you can learn so much about this wonderful breed. Please, take the time to browse this forum for "Dog attacks", and that might make you see just why everyone has "jumped into your business" here...and has so much to say.
Me? I have been lucky with my dogs. I have never had one who was allowed into the paddocks/pastures with the horses, and so far, they have all recognised the boundries. BUT...should I find myself owning one that doesn't...it shall be found a new home, without dhildren, or animals. In my opinion, a dog that has learned to mishandle animals, will eventually do the same with small children, and it just isn't worth the chance to me...to find myself proven right or wrong.
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iluvwalkers
Well-Known Member
i have already stated i know that playing or aggression could have led to the same outcome. i know i should have never let him in with my stallion and if i hadn't he would have never thought it was o.k. to go in with the baby. i saw what he was doing and it is the same thing he does with my other australian shepard, they grab each other by the sruff of the neck. i am not saying it is o.k. what happened, but by know means are children at danger and i don't believe for one moment i am being nieve about what he can do. i have been a great dog owner all my life and i do find it slightly offensive to say this dog ,who you know nothing but 3 lines of type about, would eventually "attack" children. this has gone way, way overboard.
OK, flight and fight animals should never mix because the only difference between play and aggression is opportunity. So then, everyone with those Anatolians in with your herds, these dogs need to be removed. Everything is black and white, right and wrong and there is no middle ground. Lesson learned. Shame on us.
: Guess we need to keep our barn cats away from the chickens too.
( this is called sarcasm and not truth )
( this is called sarcasm and not truth )
justanothercowgirl
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Welcome to the forum!
Pam
Minimor
Well-Known Member
This is kind of an odd comparison. If I were to have a LGD in with my horses, sheep or whatever, I don't expect him to be out there playing with them. If the dog was playing with the animals he was supposed to be guarding, yes, I would be removing him from the paddock. Play can turn rough in a heartbeat, and the end result of rough play and intent to kill can be exactly the same.OK, flight and fight animals should never mix because the only difference between play and aggression is opportunity. So then, everyone with those Anatolians in with your herds, these dogs need to be removed. Everything is black and white, right and wrong and there is no middle ground. Lesson learned. Shame on us.: Guess we need to keep our barn cats away from the chickens too.
( this is called sarcasm and not truth )
walkers, please do a search back through this forum & find some of the pictures that show the horrible injuries some horses have had inflicted on them by beloved family pets that the owner was convinced would never, ever do anything like that to one of their horses. So many people tend to think it would never happen to one of their horses or be caused by their own dog, and so many times they are wrong. Then perhaps you will see why people are so fired up over dog attacks of any sort.
nootka
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I, too, suggest they just read back and see what has happened. Not what COULD have happened, but what HAS happened. If they look at Tony Greaves' posts, Laura of Flying A, and I know there have been several more just this season alone, but those two stand out to me for some reason, probably because in Tony's case the sheer numbers, and because of the shock of Laura's as well as the heartache on both sides.
In at least one case, I know one of the animals WAS an LGD, and it went "wrong", so nothing's 100% safe, however, I do agree that the dog has gone past the point of no return and needs to be 100% secured from the animals and likely small children, too. Otherwise, there could be a tragic episode in the future.
I'm glad to hear the foal is doing fine.
Liz M.
In at least one case, I know one of the animals WAS an LGD, and it went "wrong", so nothing's 100% safe, however, I do agree that the dog has gone past the point of no return and needs to be 100% secured from the animals and likely small children, too. Otherwise, there could be a tragic episode in the future.
I'm glad to hear the foal is doing fine.
Liz M.
rabbitsfizz
Well-Known Member
When two dogs "play" together- as my Dobes often do, I do NOT expect to find teeth marks in either dog- not even teeth marks, let alone broken skin.
When a dog chases a foal, as your dog was doing, it's intentions, believe me, are NOT "play"- they are to kill.
My Dobes could kill the foals in a moment- on the odd occasion when they have got in with them unattended they have been going to do something else that, by coincidence, was in the foals field, so I had a couple of minutes to call them back in- there has NEVER been a time when they entered the field intent on chasing, and remember these dogs could easily jump into the fields anytime they wanted- they do not because I have, at least, managed to instill that much into them.
I do not believe, I honestly do not, That it is possible to teach a dog not to attack, if it is the kind of dog, like yours- and mine- that has shown an inclination to so do.
So- what I suppose you have to ask yourself is "am I willing to have my foals life depend on my ability to control my dog??"
I would not be, which is why my dogs are never, ever in the field with any of my horses unless I am there, with them.
And rarely even then.
Sorry, but I do actually think that by posting such a controversial topic, so near to so many peoples hearts, you did ask for opinions- it seemed to me you were totally unaware of the possibilities- and I am afraid you still appear to be.
When a dog chases a foal, as your dog was doing, it's intentions, believe me, are NOT "play"- they are to kill.
My Dobes could kill the foals in a moment- on the odd occasion when they have got in with them unattended they have been going to do something else that, by coincidence, was in the foals field, so I had a couple of minutes to call them back in- there has NEVER been a time when they entered the field intent on chasing, and remember these dogs could easily jump into the fields anytime they wanted- they do not because I have, at least, managed to instill that much into them.
I do not believe, I honestly do not, That it is possible to teach a dog not to attack, if it is the kind of dog, like yours- and mine- that has shown an inclination to so do.
So- what I suppose you have to ask yourself is "am I willing to have my foals life depend on my ability to control my dog??"
I would not be, which is why my dogs are never, ever in the field with any of my horses unless I am there, with them.
And rarely even then.
Sorry, but I do actually think that by posting such a controversial topic, so near to so many peoples hearts, you did ask for opinions- it seemed to me you were totally unaware of the possibilities- and I am afraid you still appear to be.
susanne
dB
As horse lovers, everyone seems to assume that others would choose to keep the horses and kill the dog...
Not to downplay the seriousness of this life or death situation, but putting the dog down is not the only solution.
If one's first loyalty is to the dog, then the answer may be to re-home the horses, and invest in secure fencing/kennel in order to safely keep the dog.
This dog must not be allowed around prey animals, and must always be supervised around small children -- something that should really be done with any dog.
iluvwalkers must now decide how best to do this.
As much as I love my horses, if faced with this situation, I could not simply opt to put down my dog. I would be destroyed by the choice, as my dogs, my horses and my cats are my children. I would need to find a situation that was in the best interest of all. It would probably be easiest to board the horses on a different property and keep the dog.
On the other hand, I would never bring in any animal (including horses) that would be a threat to any of our animals...I owe that to the ones who already live with me.
Not to downplay the seriousness of this life or death situation, but putting the dog down is not the only solution.
If one's first loyalty is to the dog, then the answer may be to re-home the horses, and invest in secure fencing/kennel in order to safely keep the dog.
This dog must not be allowed around prey animals, and must always be supervised around small children -- something that should really be done with any dog.
iluvwalkers must now decide how best to do this.
As much as I love my horses, if faced with this situation, I could not simply opt to put down my dog. I would be destroyed by the choice, as my dogs, my horses and my cats are my children. I would need to find a situation that was in the best interest of all. It would probably be easiest to board the horses on a different property and keep the dog.
On the other hand, I would never bring in any animal (including horses) that would be a threat to any of our animals...I owe that to the ones who already live with me.
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I will not give an opinion here but I would want you if you would please please, to promise me just one thing......please promise me you will go back and read Lauras post and view the photos of her little gelding.
Then come back and let everyone here know that yes you did go and look and now know what can happen and you are forearmed with some very good information. I think it would make many on here just feel better and it will help you to understand why some got so passionate so quickly.
I don't want you to judge people only by this one post and don't want them to judge you by your posts because i think you were surprised and hurt by what some wanted you to do. These are some of the earths most loving and knowledgable people. However to get that knowledge you must have a lot of experience which most often involves horrible tragedies, and they will do anything in their power to help someone not have to go thru what they did. So sometimes when you speak from the heart it can come across to a rookie as harsh.
Nobody wants to kill or rehome an animal for a lark so tp speak,its just they want to help you avoid what they have seen.
I think if you go look at Lauras post then go to Tonys you will understand a little better why they may seem to be a little rough on your dog.
:
:
Bonnie
Then come back and let everyone here know that yes you did go and look and now know what can happen and you are forearmed with some very good information. I think it would make many on here just feel better and it will help you to understand why some got so passionate so quickly.
I don't want you to judge people only by this one post and don't want them to judge you by your posts because i think you were surprised and hurt by what some wanted you to do. These are some of the earths most loving and knowledgable people. However to get that knowledge you must have a lot of experience which most often involves horrible tragedies, and they will do anything in their power to help someone not have to go thru what they did. So sometimes when you speak from the heart it can come across to a rookie as harsh.
Nobody wants to kill or rehome an animal for a lark so tp speak,its just they want to help you avoid what they have seen.
I think if you go look at Lauras post then go to Tonys you will understand a little better why they may seem to be a little rough on your dog.
Bonnie
KanoasDestiny
Well-Known Member
I feel so sorry for both you and your horse. I know how dogs can get, and how attached you can be to them. I just want to share my story.
My dog was an only dog for 9 years. All of a sudden we introduced a puppy that we found strayed. My dog has always been a good watch dog and doesn't particularly care for people he doesn't know. When the puppy came, my dog didnt like him at all. Then he got used to him and they began playing. My dog would over power the puppy in play, and would dominate the puppy by holding him down by his scruff. I never thought too much of it because this was just "dog play". Then a couple years later, my dog was in the yard when a friend walked into it. He ran up to her and she got scared. She put her hand down to push him away, and he bit her. He drew blood, but didn't moul.
I had three choices, I could get rid of him to someone else and chance it happening again, or I could have him put to sleep, or I could keep him and make sure that he never had the opportunity to do it to someone else. I was extremely attached to this dog and I knew that getting rid of him and killing him were not an option. So I kept him, and put him in a 6 foot wooden fenced back yard. He will never have the opportunity to bite again, unless someone jumps the fence. I don't allow anyone but family that he was raised around to go back and see him. I also will NEVER allow him to be by any child or animal. He has already shown that he has it in him, and I will never even chance it happening, no matter how much I think I can trust him. The puppy is older and bigger than him now, so that is no longer a problem. Everytime we open the back door, I make sure that the cat isn't even around.
I know it can be hard to accept, as I never figured that my dog would do that to any living thing. But it happened, and it would be foolish to overlook it. Please just know that you were warned and it could have been a whole lot worse. Perhaps it would be best to take precautions to make sure that it doesn't happen again, as next time, it could be much worse.
By the way, I hope that your colt has a fast recovery.
My dog was an only dog for 9 years. All of a sudden we introduced a puppy that we found strayed. My dog has always been a good watch dog and doesn't particularly care for people he doesn't know. When the puppy came, my dog didnt like him at all. Then he got used to him and they began playing. My dog would over power the puppy in play, and would dominate the puppy by holding him down by his scruff. I never thought too much of it because this was just "dog play". Then a couple years later, my dog was in the yard when a friend walked into it. He ran up to her and she got scared. She put her hand down to push him away, and he bit her. He drew blood, but didn't moul.
I had three choices, I could get rid of him to someone else and chance it happening again, or I could have him put to sleep, or I could keep him and make sure that he never had the opportunity to do it to someone else. I was extremely attached to this dog and I knew that getting rid of him and killing him were not an option. So I kept him, and put him in a 6 foot wooden fenced back yard. He will never have the opportunity to bite again, unless someone jumps the fence. I don't allow anyone but family that he was raised around to go back and see him. I also will NEVER allow him to be by any child or animal. He has already shown that he has it in him, and I will never even chance it happening, no matter how much I think I can trust him. The puppy is older and bigger than him now, so that is no longer a problem. Everytime we open the back door, I make sure that the cat isn't even around.
I know it can be hard to accept, as I never figured that my dog would do that to any living thing. But it happened, and it would be foolish to overlook it. Please just know that you were warned and it could have been a whole lot worse. Perhaps it would be best to take precautions to make sure that it doesn't happen again, as next time, it could be much worse.
By the way, I hope that your colt has a fast recovery.
iluvwalkers
Well-Known Member
i did look at all the photos and if you had read everything you would have saw that i stated more then once i know it could have been much, much worse then it was and i am very lucky.
also to say that i still am not aware of the dangers of my killer dog is an abosolute assuption! you do not know what am doing or planning to do. i realize that he could hurt or even kill a mini but a child, my goodness what kind of dogs have you been around?
my dogs are rarely outside alone without us. they are not kenneled or kept in the barn, they are house dogs. it is now obivious that he will be in the house unless i am with him. i also have children that are and will be around the dog. things seem to be very "black and white" here as it has already been stated. i would never, never have given some of the advice i have heard with out knowing the dog, the setting, the family, the horse ect. personally.
i will say that i asked for this by posting and i have also stated i will never do so again.
i geuss i will now hear how i am blind to the fact that my children will be ripped to shreads by my blood thirsty killer. enough is enough.
saddened by humans at times,
iluvwalkers
also to say that i still am not aware of the dangers of my killer dog is an abosolute assuption! you do not know what am doing or planning to do. i realize that he could hurt or even kill a mini but a child, my goodness what kind of dogs have you been around?
my dogs are rarely outside alone without us. they are not kenneled or kept in the barn, they are house dogs. it is now obivious that he will be in the house unless i am with him. i also have children that are and will be around the dog. things seem to be very "black and white" here as it has already been stated. i would never, never have given some of the advice i have heard with out knowing the dog, the setting, the family, the horse ect. personally.
i will say that i asked for this by posting and i have also stated i will never do so again.
i geuss i will now hear how i am blind to the fact that my children will be ripped to shreads by my blood thirsty killer. enough is enough.
saddened by humans at times,
iluvwalkers
CAM
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I really try to stay out of these "hot topics" but on occasion I get to a point where I feel I need to say something. This is beating a "dead horse" as is the case in many a post on here. I am not taking sides or stating opinions here just coming on to say that enough people have told iluvwalkers to view photos of past dog attacks that she has said she has viewed and have shared their own personally horrific experiences that she most certainly has gotten the point. She has stated she will do what is necessary to see to it that her dog is kept from the horses. This is her dog, her kids, her horses. She has truely had enough advice on here repeatedly saying the same thing and she is now placed in a defensive position which is certain to go nowhere but down. I'm sure that many of you really do state your opinions so bluntly in person as you do online however, I believe if many of you speak to people like this on a regular basis you surely don't have many friends. Again, this isn't to take sides as I know this is an important issue however, I do feel sorry for iluvwalkers at this point and feel it is time to let this drop. I do think she understands your point. Beating her while she is down certainly isn't going to help and maybe we should give her a warm welcome instead.
No need to flame me. Just trying to keep the peace.
No need to flame me. Just trying to keep the peace.
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Sometimes it's hard for me to read what people really mean. I HOPE you aren't saying he bit the friend because you let your dog do this rough "dog play." My 1 1/2 year old rescue Doberman is the roughest player i've ever met (never broken the skin or anything, but...) with other dogs, but would never DREAM of biting a human. My 6 year old rescue doberman doesn't play much at all, but she has snapped at me and others multiple times, and bitten a couple times (fear aggression -- she came from an abusive home and is a little unstable, though she's progressed BUNCHES in the 4 years we've had her).
Dog play does not = aggression towards humans. It's all about boundaries. My dogs were taught that biting/jumping with humans is NOT allowed, but that doesn't mean they can't have as much fun as they want with their dog buddies.
My neutered cocker mix is also actually dog AGGRESSIVE with non-puppy males and with food, but he's the sweetest people-dog you could imagine. Everyone loves him and he loves everyone and would do anything for human approval.
Anyway, I agree with Debra. iluvwalkers has had multiple speakers for both sides of the rehome/retrain debate, and it's her dog, her horses, her life. I'm sure she knows what she can handle and she is the only one who really knows this dog. I'm sure plenty of online people are shocked when I tell them my rescue dobe has bitten me, but I'd NEVER rehome her, and I do not fear her, because I know what sets her off, I can read her, and I know why she does it. No one else does so no one else can really understand.
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