Modern vs. Classic

[disneyhorse]

I am trying to read, digest, and understand the ASPC section of the rulebook. I now own two ASPC registered ponies, and IF I ever show them in pony classes I am trying to figure out what classification they are.

My AMHR/ASPC filly seems VERY refined and extreme although she is Foundation certified. But according to the rulebook Foundation ponies are supposed to have more bone and substance than the Classic. So is she Foundation on paper but not in type for show purposes?

My AMHR/ASPC stallion also seems to be way too upright and refined to be a Classic... but a Modern??? Do Modern shetlands need to have some denotation on their papers, or what??? What makes a Modern? Simply type alone? My stallion, from what I am reading, seems to be a Modern Pleasure pony (not straight Modern as he is not that extreme).

Please help me understand, is it simply a perceived variation in TYPE that makes the horse a Modern vs. a Classic??? I understand the Foundation thing clearly, but not the Modern vs. Classic.

I come from an AMHR background... is it like the difference of deciding if your horse is Country or Pleasure? They are what you make them to be?

Thank you, I am sure I will come up with more questions as I read along...

Andrea

 

[disneyhorse]

Okay... thanks to Belinda Bagby thru a private e-mail she has told me that my horses are NOT Modern type, and are too small (at 34" shetlands) to compete seriously in Pony classes. I guess that wasn't the main point of my inquiry though... still want to know if there is any bloodline issues that define the pony types, or if it is purely percieved type alone?

Thanks Belinda!!!

Andrea

 

[Getitia]

Good question and one I struggled with for years to understand.

The challenge with Shetlands is that there are 3 distinct types - unfortunately there are also many "betweener" types - for example a classic that has some modern type characteristics and lively discussions often occur at ring side when a more modern "type" pony wins the classic division or a very refined classic wins in foundation. If your pony has a "B" beside the registration number, it can only show in modern or modern pleasure classes - it is prohibited from showing in classic or foundation classics even if its type is classic in all respects. If your pony has an A beside the registration number it can show in any of the 3 divisions. To exhibit as a foundation, your shetland must have a foundation certificate on its registration papers. Lewella can share more on this topic as well. I often describe type in shetlands when asked - is to think of Moderns - as small saddlebreds/hackneys - Classics as small Arabians and foundations as small morgans - now that can be debated as well, but it helps to visualize them in your mind

Here are three foal photos with all three foals of the same age trotting - that help to illustrate the above

Buckeye WCF Miss Ohio - Modern Shetland

Buckeye WCF Classical Katrina - Classic Shetland

Buckeye WCF Kewpies Lucy Lou - Classic Shetland with Foundation Seal -

With foundations it is important to concentrate more on the bone and substance - Lucy in the above photo has much more bone. muscle and substance than Katrina who is much more refined - it is easier to see the difference in person. Hope this helps some.

 

[txminipinto]

Getita,

Girl.....mark my word. One of these days I'm going to stop spending my money and start saving it and BUY ONE OF YOUR HORSES!!! No wonder I always see your name at the top!

Let me know when you get a F/C pinto colt.

 

[disneyhorse]

Yes Getitia, THAT makes perfect sense. Thank you, that answers all my questions. (and gorgeous illustration of each type... couldn't be better)

Andrea

 

[Ponygirl]

Carin...one of Getitia's stallions, Graham's Little King Lee, is Bobcat's daddy!!!! His bloodlines are the bloodlines of the future, IMO......he produces some of the finest ponies I have ever seen!!!!!

 

[txminipinto]

Mary,

We actually own a "niece" of Graham's Little King Lee. A filly sired by Graham's Chief Lobo that's not doing to shabby for his get either! I just might need to get some King Lee get at my house too!

 

[Belinda]

I have a daughter of King Lee that Larry and Debbie Laramore bought at the Spooker this fall, I will be showing her this coming year in Classic Yearling class, this is her at the Spooker. She has filled out a lot since I brought her home and should do well for the Laramores.. Very sweet horse also..

 

[disneyhorse]

Woweee look at the legs on that horse!!! VERY nice horse Belinda!

Andrea

 

[SweetOpal]

OK my turn for questions on this subject.

So if you have a foundation seal horse that is very refined can you show it in regular classic classes or are you only able to show in Foundation?

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

Well I too am just learning about the ASPC rules and such and am on a long tedious search for the exact right pony

However.. I am confused about one thing.. well not confused really but.. since ponies are measured differently it is very possible that a 37 in mini can be a 40 in pony I have seen some come in with a differnce as much as 38 as a mini and 41-42 as a pony.

I would think by the looks of your horses andrea I would guess showing them in classic but then again i am just learning to

and there really is more or it seems more confusing then the minis for sure but I am sure once I really "get it" it wont be

and Getitia as always amazing horses and Katrina is WOW and as odd as it seems anyone would WANT TO MOVE HERE TO ID i am sure Katrina does yes in fact I am sure i can hear her telling me ID is the place to be

 

[txminipinto]

You can show a foundation sealed horse classic or foundation. But, if you have an A papered horse you CAN NOT show them foundation without the seal.

Belinda, you can go ahead and leave that filly at home when you come to Texas.

Or, drop her off at my house.

 

[Lewella]

You can show a foundation sealed horse classic or foundation.  But, if you have an A papered horse you CAN NOT show them foundation without the seal.

To take it a step further - you can show a Foundation sealed pony as a Modern or Modern Pleasure too if they fit the type. Spit-N-Image had the Foundation Seal and he as a multi time Modern Harness champion.

All the Foundation Seal means is that the pony does not have any B papered ponies in its pedigree for 4 generations (that means the three on the papers and one generation off the papers). There are many, many ponies with the Foundation Seal that are not Foundation type (My Oneka ponies for example - French Silk and Supreme Surprise both have the Foundation Seal but neither is of Foundation type even if they did meet the height requirements - I have the seal on these girls because crossed to my very stocky little Foundation stallion they can produce Foundation type).

edited to add - Roadrunner Cody's Copy, my avatar pony, has the Foundation Seal also. In today's world he's a Classic but back in his day - the early 80's when all ponies were shown as Moderns are today - he was the 1983 Reserve Champion All Star Model Stallion and 1983 Reserve Champion All Star 2 Year Old Under Stallion.

 

[RNR]

I just wanted to SAY THANK YOU ALL!!

I have a friend with shetlands and she wants to start showing them and She keeps asking me this stuff and I have no clue since I show minis! THis was a very helpful thread!

RNR

 

[hhpminis]

OK, I understand the logistics of this but what I am curious about is the ethics.

All of my ASPC/AMHR horses/ponies are foundation sealed. I have often thought about showing foundation as with their small height it is hard to compete with ponies that are 42" tall when mine are 36".

I do not want to be on the receiving end of rotten eggs and tomatoes if I do this so... Is it ethical, if your ponies are a bit more refined, to show them in the foundaton classes or is it better to show in the classic classes even though they are much smaller than the average pony in these classes.

Or is it better to just stick with AMHR shows and get a taller pony if you want to show ASPC.

 

[Lewella]

The major problem I see right now is that too few shows offer the Over and Under Classic height classes. If more shows were offering over and under there would be fewer too refined ponies showing up in the Foundation division when they are truely under Classics. The height cut off for Under Classic and Foundation are exactly the same - 42 inches.

My area is lucky in that almost all the shows that offer Shetland classes offer Over and Under Classic classes (the only one that doesn't is a state fair). It doen't solve all the off type problems but it certainly cuts back on them.