minis and acepromazine

[sams]

jsut wondering if you guys have any opinions on this or other ideas for me. My little rescue stud has lost his mind. when we got him he was so sweet and thankful for the help and attention we gave him, now he is felling better and is a holy terror. I worry that he will hurt him self. He is skin and bones because all he does is run, in the paddock he tries to sqeeze between the fence boards or get over top, in his stall he just constantly runs circles , and when i have him loose on the farm he tries to jump through the barn windows to get to the mares. he has no respect for my presonal space and tries to drag me around constantly, i cannot get his attention on me to save my life, even a jerk on the halter or a smack on the neck nothing works. I spoke with my vet that has helped me straiten out his feet and get him on the right track since i got him and he says that gelding isnt an option because of his age. He suggested that i give him acepromazine every day. Now i worry about tranquilizing a horse EVERY day but what else do i do? I dont want him to hurt himself. Also the problem isnt brcause of lack of expirienc, i have handled some pretty nasty full size stallions but he is byfar the worst i have ever seen.

HELP!

 

[midnight star stables]

Unless he is 25++ I'd get him gelded. He sounds like he could be dangerous.

I would geld him, no matter his age - IMO.

 

[Genie]

There was a topic a few days ago about "cutting" and older horse.

You won't know unless you try it. If he isn't going to be used for stud service, why not give it a try?

Don't know about the tranquilizer, but there are also supplements that are sold over the counter, for calming a horse.

 

[Matt73]

How old is he? I'm with "Midnight Star", testicles on a horse are a privilege, not a right

 

[Genie]

We had a rescue here, I think if I am remembering right he was 13 years old, used for breeding only in a pasture setting. He was just plain nasty and unhappy since he couldn't breed while here. We did have him gelded and it made a world of difference in him. It takes a good month for every year of age to get some of the "attitude" out of their system. (according to our vet and pretty much our experience) He went to a home where he was worked with daily and learned to stand, etc. for showing. Last fall the end of their first year with him he went to a huge Fun Show and was named Champion of Champions! This year he will be doing AMHR credited shows, he has turned out to be a wonderful and happy horse.

I wonder if it varies from horse to horse, I wish I could guarantee that your friends horse would turn out the same. I guess my thought it is worth a try! Tell her good luck! Lavonne

This was from the earlier post

 

[icspots]

I'm a gelding advocate, so I agree that you should do the brain surgury. But the reason for the post is I don't like "ace", it is VERY weight specific, and if you get the wrong amount, it actually has the opposite affect on a horse, and it really doesn't sound like your boy needs any more attitude!

 

[sams]

pepper is 20+ years old. the reason i hesitste to geld him is because the vet said he would be a high risk case and not a good idea in his opinion, otherwise i would definatly lop them off!

 

[txminipinto]

Geld him. FYI, acepromazine is not recommeded for use in stallions.

 

[sams]

why is ace not recomended for stallions?

 

[pepperhill]

I would also vote for gelding him, unless there are some very serious and specific reaasons why it wouldn't work. Your vet can weigh the pros and cons with you. It may turn out that he isn't a good candidate.

If that is the case, I seem to remember some posts about some calming products. One was called Quiessence and I think the other one was called Remission. I think they go into the daily feed and help take the edge off. Maybe you can do a search and find those threads.

Also, I know he needs to put weight on, but make sure you aren't over doing the sweet feed. It has empty calories and will make him run "hot". I say this to you without having any idea what you are currently feeding, just as food for thought. A high fat food such as Omelene 300, Ultium etc, would get fat calories instead of sugar calories into him and wouldn't give him that sugar energy high.

Finally, would he be a good candidate to have a gelding or young filly with him for company? If he has been running with a herd his whole life, he is probably not going to adjust well to being on the other side of the fence! Maybe there would be some way to get him a little herd of his own somehow. I take it you already have a stallion running with your herd? Otherwise you could geld him and turn him out with some of your mares. I don't know, just trying to brainstorm. Best wishes!

 

[~Lisa~]

Well I will say this I am always for gelding I have a few and love them but... if your vet felt he was not a good candidate then I would listen to that you might want to have a 2nd opinion a vet come look at him but with us not seeing him and not knowing medical history or current condition no one can tell you what is best for him. It might not be just his age but his current body condition from running himself around

Would gelding a 20 yr old stallion who is having obvious anxiety issues solve the problem I am not sure it would- is it the mares he wants to be near or simply another horse?

Without seeing your set up it is hard to say what is best, can he run a fence line with them ? Is there a gelding he might be able to stay next to?

The one thing I know is Ace is not good for stallions and no way no how would I tranq a horse every day

Even if he were gelded tomorrow it would take some time for him to not be so studly

and I would worry from your description if he could handle waiting that long health wise?

I hate to say this and I am sure I will get flamed but.. if another vet agrees gelding is not a option (and to be honest I am pretty darn sure in this case it will not be a fix all surely not a quick fix) euthanasia might be the answer. I know this will get many in a uproar but if health does not dictate gelding and you do not have the chance to change the behavior while the gelding and lack of hormones sets in- and your only option is to tranq him every day just so he can keep the calories he needs to survive it might be something I would have to think about.

But the first place I would look is to another vet for his opinion on if gelding this horse in his current condition is a safe option or not.

Forgot to add why ace is not a drug of choice for stallions not sure the technical term but it can paralyze the muscles of the penis and not allow the horse to pull it back up into the sheath meaing it needs to be amputated. This can happen the first time used or the 100 th time used even if not a issue before.

We had a gelding in our barn years ago that this happened to when he was tranq'd for ear clipping with it.

 

[Field-of-Dreams]

I hate to say this and I am sure I will get flamed but.. if another vet agrees gelding is not a option (and to be honest I am pretty darn sure in this case it will not be a fix all surely not a quick fix) euthanasia might be the answer. I know this will get many in a uproar but if health does not dictate gelding and you do not have the chance to change the behavior while the gelding and lack of hormones sets in- and your only option is to tranq him every day just so he can keep the calories he needs to survive it might be something I would have to think about.

No flames from me, I had also thought of this. How is his quality of life going to be if he's frantic all the time? What if he really DOES hurt himself? Living a life on tranks definitely isn't the answer.

Try the Remission(?) or Quiessence(?) first, after all, you have nothing to lose.

Lucy

 

[bullockcorner]

I agree with Lisa and Lucy. If gelding is NOT an option (that would be my first choice), what kind of quality of life would this boy have - being either anxiety-ridden to the point of craziness, or being drugged every day for the rest of his life?

Sometimes we need to think about what is in the best interest of the animal instead of fear of our own feelings of guilt or sorrow. But....kudos to you for rescuing him in the first place. You have a good heart.

 

[txminipinto]

Sorry its taken me so long to get back...ace is not recommended for stallions because it can cause penile paralysis. So, instead of removing his testicles you'll be removing his penis. If you can't find a vet who'll castrate him, find a barren mare to run with him if you do not want him to produce foals. Other wise, his quality of life is extremely poor.

 

[Carolyn R]

At this point, the gelding procedure may be a hail mary pass. If he is that uterly unmanageable, even if he is at higher risk with gelding, do your homework and gelding may be the only option. I am a firm believer that rescues should not be intact.

While it is too costly for mares to be "fixed" a regular gelding procedure is not expensive and should be required, if the stallion to be gelded is not a candidate for gelding, then maybe it shouldn't be a candidate for placement. There are many factors to be condsidered, but in general, this is how I feel. Dogs are not allowed to be released from a shelter without arrangements to have them spayed or nuetered, stallions should be held to the same standard, in general, regardless of how nice a horse is, IMO, a rescue should be gelded, and I FIRMLY BELIEVE ANY RESCUE SHOULD NOT BE INTENTIONALLY USED FOR BREEDING ONCE IT HAS BEEN RESCUED, JMO, everyone is entitle to one.

 

[rabbitsfizz]

Not just stallions...ace can have this effect on geldings, too!!

I would definitely suggest you geld him, unless he is in really , really poor health there is no reason why he should not come through it without any problems at all, I have no idea why your Vet would say it was high risk, maybe he has had a bad experience???

Having dealt with a highly strung, neurotic stallion all his life( AKA Rabbit!!) he was on diazepam at his worst time of year, and this just took the edge off him, but bear in mind he was a working stallion breeding up to 30 mares a year and still swinging from the chandeliers!!

Am I remembering right...wasn't at least one of the horses rescued from the Trembly case over twenty and gelded???