Military Recruiting in the schools

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Marty

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I come from a long line of Marines and Navy and I have the utmost respect for our service people. There is much miliatary background in my family and no one respects them more. I have always expected one of my boys to join the Navy after school which of course has made me scared for him of course but very proud at his courage at the same time. I do have a nephew that has been MIA now for nearly a year by the way. I do have a cousin and uncle that was POW in Viet Nam.

I had a visit by three very upset mothers. Seems their kids have joined the army without their knowledge.

The Military has been going to the high schools to recruit kids for the service. I knew that they did this, but I didn't know all of it until now. They have done this for years, going in and speaking about joining up, handing out brochures etc. but this year has been different. They have actually gone right into the school, promising these kids the stars and the moon and WITHOUT THE PARENT'S KNOWLEDGE have encouraged them to sign up right then and there. Last week, some kids quit school right there on the spot and left and joined up. According to the school board, they have every right to do this. Some of these kids are very vunerable and have no real home life, drug addicted parents, poverty, etc. I do not question that the miliatary can provide great education and a pay check at all in a variety of fields, which of course is very attractive.

They have also gone to the school office records and got a list of kids home addresses and phone numbers that are of age or are coming of age. They are calling here several times a week to talk to my boys. They are sending them "gifts" in the mail such as tee shirts and bumper stickers for fun and these men have promised all these kids that they are their new best friends. I am not sure how I feel about this type of solicitation and encouragement.

I feel it is a personal decision and the kids should all talk these things over with thier parents first before being coersed into signing up to join anything. I still feel that my oldest will join the Navy after gradutation with or without this kind of encouragement and that is fine, but maybe these promises of great adventure and travel and friendship and gifts are going a bit too far.

What are your feelings?
 
Here in ID at my daughters High School it is the same way.. only thing is they military has every right to go look thru your childs records that would be everything they have in there school records to that point and then go seek out your child and activly recruite UNLESS you sign something at the beginning of each school year saying you dont give them permission to do so.
 
WEll personally it isnt the parents decision. THey kids will be or will be close to 18 when they graduate. As much as you all hate that, it gives them the legal right to make the decision on there own.
 
THey kids will be or will be close to 18 when they graduate. As much as you all hate that, it gives them the legal right to make the decision on there own.

Ash, My oldest is already 18 and has the right to make this decision by himself, but actually already made that decision long before this encouragement. Personally if he chooses to serve and defend his country like most men in my family I stand behind him 100% and couldn't be more proud. I certainly don't "hate" it, didn't say that I did at all. But I sure know some families right now that are boiling mad. I didn't know what to say to them, I was completely at a loss. Therefore: discussion topic.
 
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Well as far as I know they have always recruited at high schools......and it is also the LAW that when boys turn 18 they must sign up for the draft (seems a wee bit se_xist to not make the girls as well)......my oldest also wants to enlist and for the record they lowered the enlistment age this year to 17........

I don't have a problem with it at all ......I mean if no ones sons and daughters signed up who will defend this country.........in the end it will be someones child/sister/brother/father..........

I do know someone who told me she will move back to Canada before letting her kid enlist
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and she cannot believe I would support my son's decision to join the Navy she told me I should tell him no....yeah telling him no works so well
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besides as scary as it is it is his choice and I will support it completely.........

those parents need to find some other bandwagon to get on if you ask me
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Does the military allow recruits to not have their high school diploma or GED? And can students legally sign up before they are 18 WITHOUT their parents' consent?

Those would be my issues on the subject.

I believe the students should be required to graduate or have their GED. I also believe they should be required to have parental consent if they haven't reached 18 yet.

MA
 
Ashley said:
WEll personally it isnt the parents decision.  THey kids will be or will be close to 18 when they graduate.  As much as you all hate that, it gives them the legal right to make the decision on there own.
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It isnt about hating anything ashley it is about the fact that sometimes and actualy more often then not a 17 year old doesnt always have the ability to make life altering decisions and fully understand all the ramifications both good and bad.

Makes you wonder.. why do they need the records do they go after those kids that seem to be having a tough time not doing so hot in school and try to get them at a time they might not see all other viable options?

I would support my childrens choices they made AS ADULTS when it comes to something like protecting our country but I also know i would want it to be something they seek out on there own not the other way around.
 
It isnt about hating anything ashley it is about the fact that sometimes and actualy more often then not a 17 year old doesnt always have the ability to make life altering decisions and fully understand all the ramifications both good and bad.
Theres alot of 30-40 yearolds and older that cant make them same kind of decisions as well.

I didnt mean hate that they go of in to the military. Its that most dont realize that a 17-18 year olds are capable of stuff and they dont need to be over protected by mommy all the time.

I am a firm beleiver that most kids are babied and pampered way to long in there life, thus makeing them not know how to deal with the real world.
 
When I went to high school in New York - the recuriters did much more they would take us out and hold parties for the guys be there best buds- it was a pretty long drawn out wooing process gifts phone calls- but the second they were recurited these guys were gone. I actually thought it had tamed down abit- I know here in ontario we have recruitment drives in the high school, and cadets but no where near the effort put forth by the us recruiters.

I think the most they do is once a year pull into the high school with a tank and drop some guys from a helicopter onto the football field- we haven't received any phone calls at home- and my oldest would probablly be a candidate for the recruiters.
 
Maybe they are really pushing/encouraging kids in high school because they are not recruiting the numbers they did in the past. I had read somewhere they recruitment and reenlistment numbers were down.
 
Back in the days: I was drafted rather than enlisting. I heard so many sad stories about what guys had been promised verses what they actually got. They are promised training, well of course you must be qualified for the training which they do not tell you until you are in. If you do qualify you will get the training but chances are that you will never get to work in the field you are trained. You are promised a duty station, Germany, Pacific, Alaska. You will get there but you might only stay a matter of weeks if they decide you are needed other places. The VA benefits for education and such are worthwhile especially if you are from a background where paying for college is a pipe dream. Then when its time to get out the pressure to reenlist is high. Just like getting a high pressure pitch for a time share condo !!!!!. I believe that a youth should discuss with a person who has been through it before they make a decision.
 
justaboutgeese said:
Back in the days:  I was drafted rather than enlisting.  I heard so many sad stories about what guys had been promised verses what they actually got.  They are promised training,  well of course you must be qualified for the training which they do not tell you until you are in.  If you do qualify you will get the training but chances are that you will never get to work in the field you are trained.  You are promised a duty station, Germany, Pacific, Alaska.  You will get there but you might only stay a matter of weeks if they decide you are needed other places.  The VA benefits for education and such are worthwhile especially if you are from a background where paying for college is a pipe dream.  Then when its time to get out the pressure to reenlist is high.  Just like getting a high pressure pitch for a time share condo !!!!!.  I believe that a youth should discuss with a person who has been through it before they make a decision.
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You have a point......I have alot of military family and my BIL is retired Navy so is another close family friend so my sons have grown up with alot of information about the service that is more accurate as far as the realities.......my son has made alot of mistakes and he knows he lacks focus and direction.......he also knows the military is tough and that he could end up stationed far from home......right now he is determined to enlist......I know he is young enough to change his mind between now an when he is old enough.......but I still support him in wanting to do something that may better his life.....higher education is important but not something we can pay for .......so for that reason as well it is a good choice........I still say educate the kids (and parents) so they don't get taken by the used car pitch........but I also just can't see getting my panties in a wad because the recruiters are coming to the schools........
 
I'm not really sure what my thoughts are on this subject. I have three daughters, no sons. It won't effect me personally.

However, that said, I think most kids that grow up with family members in the military are going to gravitate that way anyhow. The kids who grow up wanting to go into the military will be fine, too. The kids who had never even considered it until these cool men in uniform show up bearing gifts and promises of what life will be are the ones who will have the odds against them at doing well in the military and really understanding the true commitment it takes when signing their name on the dotted line. It is a major, life-changing decision and should NOT be made in the same day as they are given these fancy little presentations. So I guess I don't much care for the way they glamorize it. I have friends who lived a military life for more than a decade each and let me tell ya, it's not what they are promoting to these young teens.

I don't have a problem with them being in the schools, but ethically, I don't think they should allow a child to sign up that same day if they had never even thought of it before. They shouldn't take ANY kids until 24 hours have passed from them being in the school. It's not like they won't get them in the end if they are needed, that is what the draft is for.
 
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justaboutgeese said:
.  I heard so many sad stories about what guys had been promised verses what they actually got.  They are promised training,  well of course you must be qualified for the training which they do not tell you until you are in.  If you do qualify you will get the training but chances are that you will never get to work in the field you are trained.  You are promised a duty station, Germany, Pacific, Alaska.  You will get there but you might only stay a matter of weeks if they decide you are needed other places.  The VA benefits for education and such are worthwhile especially if you are from a background where paying for college is a pipe dream.  Then when its time to get out the pressure to reenlist is high.  Just like getting a high pressure pitch for a time share condo !!!!!.  I believe that a youth should discuss with a person who has been through it before they make a decision.
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Thanks geese that is exactly what I wsa tying to say I am not against of course kids going into the military and again would support and be proud if that is what my child chose to do however... High pressure tactics shopuld not be used on a 17 yr old kid especially when it isnt a used car salesman or other sales pitch but our own goverment
 
This is often the first "adult" decision some kids make. Sure it ticks some parents off, it sure did me--my son didn't ask for mommy's permission to enlist either
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, but this is strictly the young adult's decision to make and only normal for a healthy-minded kid to cut the apron strings sometime. The military does a hard sell but personally I'd rather see a kid in this environment where they still have direction from those with their best interests at heart than wandering from one dead end job to another.

My son has been in the AF and reserves since he was 20 years old and is in a unique position as even though his job is active duty, he can still transfer to a civilian job anytime he wants. The AF has given him his education, all his training, a housing subsidy, no deployments, medical, dental for his family etc. and he makes so much more money/benefits than any of his friends who passed up the opportunity.

Not every kid can expect this, and yes a they are promised a lot but it's up to them to work for it. If he/she has the potential and the drive, it will be rewarded. However, those who want to slough it off and/or are looking for a free ride from the military are the ones who end up the most dissapointed with the whole experience.
 
another one what is up with my computer today!
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From our experience with a grandson, the Army recruiters are desperate to get recruits and will not only promise the sun and the moon but take in young people who are not even suitable for fighting a war. Not too long ago there was a story in the news about one young person doing a study on recruiting and found out about all the ugly practices employed for recruiters to get what is called their "mission" filled.

Read what one recruiter said about the disgusting practices that are going on.

http://www.node707.com/archives/003585.shtml
 
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Hubby was stuck in recruiting for Shore duty the last 4 years he was in the Navy.

He did his 20 and got out in 1999, when they were forcing folks to retire.

One thing he did not like about it..., is he would not lie or sugar coat what the kids would have to do. This did not make him very well liked with the Seattle command.

He did not put as many kids in, but the ones he did, knew what was going to happen, how hard it would be, and stayed in.

Just like any other "Real" job.

Any good job is going to make the kids work, work like they have never been asked to before for most of them. But the Military does give them the Schooling, they get Medical, dental, housing, so many things that they would not likely get in a Civilian job. If they are willing to do good work, they can go far.

At the time the kids had to pass a test, rather like the GED, and many couldn't even though they just graduated from High school. All kids that want to look into or join, must pass a back ground check. This is for safety reasons for the most part, and to weed out the kids that have been on drugs and etc. They also will not put in the Navy knowingly, anyone that has Asthma or life threatening food or drug allergies.

They also require anyone under the age of 18 years, and many 18 years olds to have their parents come in for a talk, and to get permission.

No gifts were ever given.

There was however going away parties for the groups of teens and their family before they went to Boot camp. Being a Dependent wife meant I was required to go. They were nice Family BBQ's.

The problem with not recruiting enough people has been going on a very long time.

They should of just allowed the ones with 20+ years to stay in. But at the time, another law passed and they wanted to stream line/reduce the amount of AD military personnel .

The older I get and the more I see, the more people don't realize that we need people in the Military. They have always been recruiting at the Highschool level, nothing new there.

Seems more and more people are not proud in their Country or the Military that serve to protect us. I was shocked when I moved to this side of the country to how Anti military the majority of people are.

Freedom has a price, it always has. If this county came to a point that no one thought it needed to be defended, is the day we become part of China or some other country.

My Husband Served, his Dad Served... even is Grandfather over in the UK served. He comes from a Long line of Military brats.

My Dad Served,,, and so on. I would of if my health wasn't always so iffy.

Anyway Marty getting off topic here. Those Mom's need to get a life. There has always been recruiting in schools, there always will be. If they do not like the fashion on how it is done at their schools. They need to "Politely"request them not to give out gifts or what ever. Many of the Commands will listen, if you don't charge in there demanding that they stop "what ever".

Many Commands would respect that parents ask for a more Low key, non gift giving information center in the Highschool.

But if parents go in there, demanding, talking down to or being over all rude, don't expect anyone to listen to them.

That these Mom's don't want their children in the Military, well if no one served, like I said before we would be part of another country, or have a War in our Lands.

Think part of the reason, and not something I ever want to see, is we have not had a War or World war fought in the USA for a very long long time. People think bad things like War can't touch us. They are very, very wrong.
 
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Here is another side for those thinking of joining the Army should read. I do believe every young person shouldjoin if they have all the facts but just hearing the side of the recruiter is not enough to make a life decision.

DECEPTIONS IN MILITARY RECRUITING: an ex-Insider Speaks Out

By Chris White

BACKGROUND

I was a Marine recruiter’s assistant for 75 days. During my active duty service, from 1994-98, I witnessed how recruiters manipulate the poor and young into fighting for the rich and powerful.

What I have learned, since my honorable discharge in 1998, has led me to forsake the ideology promoted by the Corps of “once a Marine, always a Marineâ€. Rather, because I now condemn my past Marine identity, I proudly call myself an “ex-Marine†who is against any offensive use of the U.S. military.

My doctoral research on U.S. foreign policy has convinced me that, when viewed through the lens of the deceptive process of military recruiting, our actions abroad are further exposed as corrupt and needlessly violent.

THE ROLE OF THE MILITARY RECRUITER

I am not against the men and women serving in the military. I am against the way in which they are used by politicians to promote the interests of their richest constituents.

Rarely has our military been used for national defense. I believe, that in its 228-year history, the War of 1812 and WWII were the only wars possibly fought to defend our country. On the other hand, mostly poor young men and women have fought hundreds of other engagements both here and abroad -- defending the interests of the rich and the politicians they owned,.

Military recruiters are the first line of offense in this machinery that defends the interests of the powerful at the expense of the less fortunate. Recruiters enter the civilian world touting slogans that make an otherwise dismal job seem appealing. Their training is oriented toward marketing and sales techniques.

For instance: on his first day at recruiting school, a friend of mine was told to come up with a gimmick for selling a pen. My question is, “If the motivations for war are just, then why do they have to use manipulative sales techniques to convince young, uneducated minds into carrying out the dirty work of war?â€

Indeed, why do they even have to sell the military to young people? Why do recruiters have to exist at all?â€

INCENTIVES TO DECEIVE

Recruiters have every incentive to be dishonest. Speaking for the Marine Corps only, recruiters have monthly quotas. Once filled, they can slack off for the rest of the month. However, the more people signed up, the better their chances for promotion. The incentive for dishonesty is high indeed.

RECRUITERS LIE:

ABOUT COLLEGE BENEFITS --

They fail to tell you that you must pay 1200 dollars in your first year of the military in order to get the G.I. Bill, which is quite a chunk of money when your salary is only 700/mo. You will be lucky if you get your monthly G.I. Bill check in your first three months of college, since the bureaucracy is so inept. You had better have enough money saved up before you arrive.

Another point recruiters leave out is that most students who are independent and over 25, civilians and veterans alike, are eligible for enormous amounts of financial aid anyway. That is, unless you already receive the G.I. Bill.

Wait a minute. Back up. So, if I earned the G.I. Bill for “serving†my country, then I may not be eligible for any financial aid?

Yep, ask any veteran over 25 working in college, and they will tell you that the financial aid office determines your eligibility for grants and fellowships (free money) according to your income, and then deletes your income from the amount of aid you are eligible for.

Therefore, if you were eligible for 9,000 dollars in grants, but received 9,000 from the G.I. Bill, well, you get no grants. You can get loans though. All the loans you desire.

This may seem like a petty argument, but remember, recruiters use the G.I. Bill to lure civilians into joining the military. So, if the G.I. Bill is not necessarily a benefit, then why should one join for the college money?

ABOUT DUTY STATION ASSIGNMENTS --

Recruiters tell potential reservists that they can go to college and serve one weekend a month, with very little chance of being called back to active duty. However, the current administration wants to call up to 300,000 reservists to the Gulf alone.

My neighbor’s daughter was considering joining the National Guard. Her recruiter told her that she would be stationed in Kansas, but luckily, I persuaded her not to join. Her friend was not so lucky. Shortly after joining the Guard, he was called to active duty and sent to Bosnia for two years.

Thousands of National Guard and other reservists have been called back to active duty since 9/11, and thousands more still will be called to go to Iraq.

ABOUT JOB PLACEMENTS --

Many of us were manipulated into joining the infantry (ground troops) after initially asking to be Military Police. However, this job is usually filled because there is so much demand for it. Many recruiters tell potential recruits that they will be Military Police, then persuade them to join the infantry at the last minute. Many of us were told that we did not qualify for various reasons, after which we were manipulated into joining the most dangerous job in the military.

ABOUT VETERANS BENEFITS --

I can use VA medical facilities if I want to wait five months for an appointment, but my wife cannot use them (at least in Kansas). We are both veterans, but I am 30 percent disabled, and she is not at all.

Of course, who would want to use the VA hospital in Kansas City anyway? According to an AP report in March 2002, the infestation of mice, maggots, and flies in the years leading up to 2001 created such a scandal as to pressure VA Secretary Anthony Principi to remove “the director and deputy director for the regional network, which includes Missouri, Kansas, and southern Illinois.†The janitorial staff did not touch the food storage areas or cafeteria for a year, and maggots had nested in two of the comatose patients’ noses!

 


This is not necessarily the fault of the VA because the federal government decides how much money will be allotted to our disabled veterans.


 


Ron Kovic exposed the horrible conditions of the VA hospitals during the Vietnam era in his book, Born on the Fourth of July. As a wounded Vietnam veteran, Kovic was outraged at the outdated equipment, under-qualified and uncaring staffs, and the unsanitary conditions that disabled veterans were forced to endure.


 


Not much has changed since the 1970s, and hope for future change was diminished when the Bush administration slashed the VA’s healthcare budget by 275 million dollars in 2002.


 


Of course, recruiters never mention this in their speeches about the benefits of the military, which is why more veterans need to speak to high school students and parents about the realities of military life.


 


ONCE THEY ARE IN BOOT CAMP, IT IS TOO LATE TO CRY “FOULâ€!


 


One poolee (person waiting to go to boot camp who has already enlisted) wrote me that my first essay had helped him to decide to leave the Marines. During my recruiting days, I had learned that any poolee can get out before boot camp. When this man’s recruiter refused to allow him to leave, I counseled him on his rights and, after several more e-mails, the poolee told me that he finally received his discharge.


 


The recruiter responded with a physical threat by saying, “If I was in front of you right now I’d knock you out.†Great example of the quality of leadership instilled by military service.


 


CULTURE OF VIOLENCE


 


My own recruiter in 1994 was a Marine sniper who had served in El Salvador and Somalia. He actually admitted to me, with excitement, that he had killed non-combatants in Somalia with a .50 caliber sniper rifle, a weapon only to be used on vehicles, and that he had taken pictures of his victims afterward.


 


His story was semi-confirmed for me seven years later, when I read Scott Peterson’s Me against my Brother. Peterson wrote, “the snipers killed more than 14 Somalis, some of them children who were found later to have a toy pistol, or nothing.â€[ii] UN spokesperson George Bennet later told Peterson, “They were shooting at anything by the time they left.â€[iii]


 


Unfortunately, I am guilty of following an unlawful order from that same recruiter, but of a much lesser magnitude. While assisting him for two weeks just after I graduated from boot camp, part of my job was to make poolees lose weight before they shipped out.


 


One poolee was still twelve pounds overweight the day before boot camp. My recruiter ordered me to force the poolee to eat an entire box of Ex-lax, after which I was to make him do calisthenics until he lost the twelve pounds. He was admitted to boot camp the next day, but I am still ashamed of what I made him do.


 


ACCESS TO YOUTH


 


Recruiters now have even more access to the young minds of America. The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 and the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2002 require every high school receiving federal education funds to hand over the names, addresses, and phone numbers of every junior and senior to local recruiters upon request.[iv]


 


That means that even 15 years olds, with no idea whatsoever about the real world, let alone the military, are now vulnerable to the manipulation and deception of recruiters in their own homes.


 


If a school refuses to hand the information over, the Department of Defense steps in and pressures the school, after which federal funding may be withdrawn.


 


According to Secretary of Education Rod Paige and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, the Acts give students more access to college, but we need to ask;


 


“Why doesn’t the government offer any alternative to the military for unskilled high school graduates that wish to go to college but are presently unqualified?â€


 


BEHIND TODAY’S PUSH FOR RECRUITS


 


The Bush administration’s justification for waging war on Iraq is riddled with hypocrisy. From the absence of proof, to double standards, to the erasure of history in public discussions -- to all of the other deceitful practices that support the military industrial complex -- it is clear that the peace movement is up against a simultaneously powerful and tenuous force.


 


The force is powerful because the administration has the monetary resource and physical strength as well as the media to maintain power over the masses.


 


Yet, the grip of the warmongers is tenuous as long as there are those who will speak out to expose the hypocrisies and lies that legitimize their rule in the first place.


 


LEADERSHIP BY EXAMPLE


 


Our Commander in Chief, George W. Bush, joined the military, then took advantage of being a Bush to avoid service and failed to return to his duty station for a year and a half. Of course, he did not have to serve the prison sentences that others who left for that long would have, and did.


 


The President seems to have much in common with many of those Americans who support our impending war on Iraq: While over fifty percent support an invasion, approximately 1 percent serve in the military. Therefore, only 1 percent of us is willing to fight a battle that over 50 percent of us favor, which makes it that much easier for the American public and the three branches of government to favor a war.


 


As long as the fate of the majority of Americans is distinct from those that serve in the military, I guess anything, including deceptive measures in recruiting, goes.


 


Chris White is an ex-Marine infantryman with experience as a recruiter-assistant. He is currently working on his doctorate in history at the University of Kansas, Lawrence. He served from 1994-98, in Diego Garcia, Camp Pendleton, CA, Okinawa, Japan, and Doha, Qatar. He is also a member of Veterans for Peace.


 


E-mail: [email protected]


 

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 


Libby Quaid, “VA Officials Reassigned Amid Scandal,†Associated Press 28 Mar 2002.

 


[ii] Scott Peterson, Me against my Brother: at War in Somalia, Sudan, and Rwanda (New York: Routledge, 2001) 149.


 


[iii] Quoted in Peterson, 149.


 


[iv] Secretary Paige and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, “Joint Letter from Secretary Paige and Secretary Rumsfeld,†09 Oct. 2002.


 

 
 
Miniv said:
And can students legally sign up before they are 18 WITHOUT their parents' consent?

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Well considering a kid can get an abortion without their parent's permission or knowledge before they're 18 I'd be surprised if they couldn't.
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