MEASUREMENT info

[drk]

Need some suggestions !!!!

I purchased a mare registered AMHA/AMHR and was told verbally that she was 31" when I was inquiring about her.

When she arrived at my place she looked really big so I measured her with a regular mini measuring stick that I had been using. I measured her at the last hairs of her mane at 35.25" and then in the center lowest part of her back and she measured 35" there. The seller when confronted said I needed to measure with a Sligo. So I purchased one. STILL the same measurement. And I had witnesses. Sent the mare back and seller is saying they measure her at 34" and alittle under.

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Don't want to get into details but how could this POSSIBLY happen? I'm SURE my measurement was accurate and I took pictures.

Her feet were just trimmed. And I measured her standing square on a level cement patio. Was I missing something???

Any advise would be appreciated....

 

[minimomNC]

If you got your money back already, don't worry about it. Either way they told you the mare was 31" and now they are even getting her at 34". She didn't grow that much if she is already an adult. So it still wasn't the truth according to what you were told before the purchase. I wouldn't expect them to be measuring her correctly even now if they got a 3" difference.

 

[drk]

Take a regular tape measure and measure your stick, one inch is one inch no matter what its on. And cheap stick or sligo stick, 4.25" is a huge difference.

I agree with the inch is an inch but now they say they measured her and she is 34 or right under. How can that be?

My biggest question is how could I have been so careful measuring with 2 different sticks and get 35.25" at the end of the mane hairs and 35" at the center lowest point of her back with both sticks and witnesses and they get her back and say they measure her at 34" and a little under?????

Am I missing something????

 

[drk]

If you got your money back already, don't worry about it. Either way they told you the mare was 31" and now they are even getting her at 34". She didn't grow that much if she is already an adult. So it still wasn't the truth according to what you were told before the purchase. I wouldn't expect them to be measuring her correctly even now if they got a 3" difference.

Unfortuniately I haven't gotten my money back yet.

 

[minimomNC]

Did they provide you with pictures or video when they measured her? Are they sure the ground was level? Was the stick level? There are alot of reasons you got different measurements than they did. Since the height is in question, ask for a person of your choice that is close to where the horse is to measure the horse, since your money has not been refunded, its still your horse and your right to have it done by an impartial third party.

 

[Little Hooves]

I highly doubt they are measuring the horse correctly. They could be skewing it in so many ways - I know that when I've tried to measure even a feisty horse, I usually will get a variable of an inch - but THREE inches? Are they measuring on even ground, are they measuring with the horse standing correctly, are they sure they know what level means on the measuring stick when the bubble is inside the mark? You should be able to take 2 different measuring devices and get the same result. It comes down to technique. We know inches don't lie, but people do. It's not the TYPE of measuring stick you use that matters.

I think the burden of proof lies with them. Tell them to take a photo of them measuring the horse at 34" (or better, yet, 31" since that is the size she was originally) - clearly enough to see the "34" (you can at least count the darker inch marks if you know what number they start at) - make it their challenge. And they owe you the money back whether the horse was 35.25" or NOT since they sold her as 31" and now are saying she is 34" - you agreed on buying a 31" horse, not a 35.25" horse and not a 34" horse. They need to send you your money back. They have no right to keep it, especially when they accepted the return of their "merchandise." Most businesses would at least follow THAT rule.

Brenda

 

[HGFarm]

I agree, I have had mine vary almost as much as an inch, depending on their weight, if they were nervous, how they were standing, etc..... I do not stretch mine out or try to squish them into something they are not... I measure just standing normally on a flat area.

There is NO WAY that a horse is going to give at least 3 inches difference (or more). I would want to see how she is being stood to get her at 34- stretched? Made to suck down some?

Bottom line is, she is NOT what you were told nor even close. I do hope you get your money back!!! They didnt tell you the truth about this mare at all.

 

[Relic]

l bought a 2 yr old AMHA colt in the US from a well known farm a few years back who was suppose to be right on 32" got that in writting from them also. When he got up here he was 34.25" no matter how many sticks were used thats what he was. l called the farm and told them and was told Canadians don't know how to correctly measure a mini and to stretch him out till l got 32"because thats what he left at

...W T H ....within the week l got 2 other breeders to come over at seperate times to measure and he was measured in by them 34.25 to 34.50 no where near 32" at any time yes including the middle of his back. l did get a refund in time but that was almost like pulling teeth..but l got it though l lost out on my transport fee to have him hauled up here which wasn't cheap. lf you buy at a certain height and get it in writting thats what you should expect coming of the truck not some huge oversized 2 year old you can't use for showing or breeding in an A program. l really don't know what some farms are thinking sometimes when it comes to height...JMO l think in my head that they know the truth they just want a sale and hope you keep your mouth shut...

 

[drk]

Did they provide you with pictures or video when they measured her? Are they sure the ground was level? Was the stick level? There are alot of reasons you got different measurements than they did. Since the height is in question, ask for a person of your choice that is close to where the horse is to measure the horse, since your money has not been refunded, its still your horse and your right to have it done by an impartial third party.

Your idea is a good one about a third party... That's really what I'm looking for is other ways to confirm this horses measurement.

I requested a video and pictures. I took pictures and supplied them with witnesses present to the seller before the mare left to go back. Now I'm told she was measured at 34" and alittle under. I want pictures and video.

If the mare was actually under 34" I would have been upset but would have considered keeping her because she is a really nice mare but I paid for a AMHA registered horse not an AMHR

This is a lesson to me and Buyer beware for others. If I measured incorrectly I would understand but I feel very confident along with 5 different witnesses at different measurings that this mare is 35.5"

Again I was verbally told in the beginning she was 31" after getting her and measuring her I got 35.5" After confronting the seller and sending her back they now are saying she is 34" and alittle under now.

I will not disclose the seller as I'm here for suggestions because there is alot of knowledge on this board and I knew I'd get some help on ideas. And for others to see how easy it is to get into this so please be careful and make sure you check all details and get them in writing.

 

[Little Hooves]

Well, if they never do give you your money back, be sure to let me know which farm it is and the name of the mare. I don't know if it's PC to give out negative feedback of a farm over the forum, but people have a right to know about shady business. You can just email me privately if you can't broadcast it, because I'd like to know at the very least.

But, I really hope they come to their senses and just send you your money back! My husband says you could take them to court, but that can cost more than it's worth sometimes. Or, you can write Judge Judy

That would be cool to see you on TV

I think threatening them with negative feedback might do the trick, though, if you had to get ruthless.

And verbal contracts are binding, but if anything, we're trying to prove this mare is AMHR only and not what you want. Since the horse was sold as AMHA/AMHR and is too tall by your measurements as well as others', you would likely win any court battle.

Brenda

 

[Genie]

We use a wicket for measuring and we feel it is very accurate since you can't tip the cross piece.

The bottom of the top cross piece of wood is 34 inches exactly, from the floor.

The ruler is brought down to the last mane hair and that distance is deducted from 34.

We travelled 4.5 hours with a trailer to pick up a horse which was measured at 29 but was possibly less as they didn't have a proper measuring stick. They said the horse was measured three different ways and always 29, or a bit less.

I said I would be bringing my wicket to check his height and if under 30 inches I would take him. We measured him at 31 in his woolies and at 2 years of age, I felt he had a bit more growing to do.

It was a real disappointment and a hefty gas cost as well.

I think an inch depending on the set up is even a stretch. Might be more like a 1/2 inch. I don't think there was any way to get him under 30 inches. When I measured him and said he was at least 31 inches, the seller didn't even question it

I hope you get your money back, that is just wrong

 

[drk]

The sellers last reply is that they are going to get this mare measured by a AMHA director. I am going to get the date this will happen and send a witness for me.

If I was wrong I will admit it wholeheartedly but after at least 20 different times 2 different measuring sticks and 5 different witnesses and not being new to measuring I cannot believe this horse can be under 34" But the bottom line is I wasn't told she was that tall.

I was told that when she got back to them that they would take pictures and video when they measured. Well I was told they measured her at 34" and alittle under but no pics or video supplied.

I sent them pictures when I measured with 2 different sticks.

 

[Becky]

The sellers last reply is that they are going to get this mare measured by a AMHA director.

Diane, that is exactly what I was going to suggest be done. Yes, sending a representative for you would be a good idea too. I would have the measuring videotaped as well. Insist that the horse be stood on level ground, preferably concrete and not stretched front to back or side to side.

Most of the horses I've purchased or come in for training have been close to what I was told they measured. I can forgive even an inch as nobody measures the same. But when horses have come here that don't even measure close and actually measure out of AMHA, what was the seller/owner thinking???

 

[drk]

The sellers last reply is that they are going to get this mare measured by a AMHA director.

Diane, that is exactly what I was going to suggest be done. Yes, sending a representative for you would be a good idea too. I would have the measuring videotaped as well. Insist that the horse be stood on level ground, preferably concrete and not stretched front to back or side to side.

Most of the horses I've purchased or come in for training have been close to what I was told they measured. I can forgive even an inch as nobody measures the same. But when horses have come here that don't even measure close and actually measure out of AMHA, what was the seller/owner thinking???

Hi Becky, Thanks... I just sent a request for the date, time and location this measurement will take place so either I or a representative for me can be present. We will see what happens from here.

I really hate being in something like this but I work so hard to be an honest breeder and always disclose everything I know about my horses before they are sold that I just expected the same in return. And the breeder did take her back but hasn't disclosed when my money will be refunded after being asked several times. If they would just give my money back this would be over and they just lost a good customer.

Height is important to me and I didn't want a mare over 34" As I had said before.. If she had measured under 34" for me I would have kept her even tho I was told she was much smaller in the beginning but I honestly could not get this mare under 35" even in the center lowest part of her back. So either they misrepresented this AMHA horse to me or I need to come to the reality that I'm a complete idiot when it comes to measurements.

 

[HGFarm]

Diane, I also can see some difference in measuring- a little bit, but...they told you the horse was 31" but now they are saying it is just under 34" or at 34". That is a HUGE difference in the Mini world, and I agree, just refund your money and call it a day. They misrepresented the mare from the beginning, and should just pay you back and go on their way.

I also agree that it should be video taped and either you or a rep there, and make sure the horse is measured correctly according to the rule book. No stretching, no poking them on the back to make them 'drop', etc..... And I agree that you have legal grounds to stand on that the horse was misrepresented from the beginning.

Due to problems with a seller or two before, this is why I keep EVERY SINGLE email, both received and sent, and ALL info regarding any purchase I make now. And it certainly comes in handy because I had to dig them out on a purchase last year and was able to prove the seller was not telling the truth at all. Nor did they stand behind what they said they were going to do. I just dont know about some people.

 

[drk]

Another question????

If you purchased 2 horses together and received a multi horse discount. And one of the horses (this mare) was misrepresented as I feel this mare was. Do you think it is right that after sending this horse back that I now only get half back of what I paid for her???

I'm being told that when I sent this mare back that I forefit my multi horse discount so I now have to pay full price for the one I kept and now loose 50% of what I paid for this mare.

Dang.... Talk about being STUNG !!!!!

or I could take the discounted price for a farm credit. But who would want another horse from someone that just did this to you???

But 50% right now looks better then NOTHING. I lost alot in this deal.... Shipping costs, board costs... OUCH

 

[drk]

Diane, I also can see some difference in measuring- a little bit, but...they told you the horse was 31" but now they are saying it is just under 34" or at 34". That is a HUGE difference in the Mini world, and I agree, just refund your money and call it a day. They misrepresented the mare from the beginning, and should just pay you back and go on their way.
I also agree that it should be video taped and either you or a rep there, and make sure the horse is measured correctly according to the rule book. No stretching, no poking them on the back to make them 'drop', etc..... And I agree that you have legal grounds to stand on that the horse was misrepresented from the beginning.

Due to problems with a seller or two before, this is why I keep EVERY SINGLE email, both received and sent, and ALL info regarding any purchase I make now. And it certainly comes in handy because I had to dig them out on a purchase last year and was able to prove the seller was not telling the truth at all. Nor did they stand behind what they said they were going to do. I just dont know about some people.

I have EVERY EMAIL

:BigGrin

:BigGrin

:BigGrin

:BigGrin

:BigGrin

 

[Little Wolf Ranch]

This is just my opinion and my opinion only. . .

I would send the second horse back, DEMAND my money back (or there will be heck to pay) for whatever amount you paid and never have dealings with this farm again. I don't care how good the horse(s) are the seller lied to you about height, imagine what else they lied about? 

The wouldn't have a snowball's chance in heck for me to be a repeat customer. There are many more horses from more responsible breeders that you can find that are a TRUE 31" 

!!!

By the way, if you could disclose to me privately which farm this is, please do. I do not wish to happen to be "blinded"

 

[minie812]

Personally I would tell them they can HAVE both horses back and you want your money back plus any costs incurred by you because they were the deceptive ones and let them know about court and negative feedback. They were playing you and figured that with the discount you would just keep her. IMOP...and I see nothing wrong with letting this forum know of who they are

 

[Minimor]

I have to say I do think it fair that if one horse is returned and one is kept, that you do lose your multi horse discount and technically have to pay full price for the horse you're keeping. Question is--were you given individual prices on each horse prior to making the deal on the multi-horse purchase? If you were told the price was $2000 each (just picking an even number out of my head here!) but you could have both for $3000 then I would expect them to give you the $1000 difference back. You essentially have bought just the one horse now, so have to pay the full price of $2000 for her. I admit that it would be nice if the seller were to give you back the full discounted price of the one horse & let you have the other mare at her discounted price, since you were misled on the measurement of the one mare, but I'm not sure it's really unfair if they don't do that.

I usually measure taller than other people (like stewards) do, but I don't get them being 3" taller, usually an inch at most. That's usually because I'm measuring on ground that isn't exactly level, and I have a folding stick with that arm that has a bit of a wobble to it--those don't measure quite as exact as the approved sticks do. Most times I'm within a half inch of what the steward measures them at.

I'm careful to not stretch them or stand them spraddle legged, and I don't push down on the stick...if someone stretches the horse and spraddles its front legs and pulls the head up & pushes down on the stick, yes, they are likely to get a big difference in measurement to what I would get. I have had people tell me that they've gone to look at horses and the above is the way the seller demonstrated measuring. Not everyone measures according to what the rule book says.