Mary's Pregnancy & Foaling Thread- SHE FOALED 5/22~~~FILLY~~~!!! New PICS pg 56

[Eagle]

Well lets just pray that it isn't fescue

 

[mthowdy]

Your mention of fescue grass just set off an alarm for me. I do not mean to set off any panic -- but this is a place we all love the mares and try to help and educate each other, so I'm expressing my concerns. If you google "fescue grass in pregnant mares" you can see several good articles about what effects fescue can have on pregnant mares and their late term pregnancies and foaling out. This is a great article from Cornell University that explains things more: http://www.ansci.cor...nts/fesalk.html

First, you need to determine whether or not she is on fescue grass right away. Contact your agriculture department or pull some and have someone knowledgeable determine whether or not it's fescue. If it's NOT fescue, all is well. If it IS fescue, I would get her off of the grass right away.

We don't have it here in Florida, so I don't have to deal with it, but my understanding is that pregnant mares need to be taken off fescue grass 30-90 days prior to foaling. Fescue grass is all over the US, so you're not alone in this and many people have successful breeding programs on fescue -- but have to take additional steps to get their foals safely on the ground.

She is apparently starting her udder, so is probably a month or so from foaling. It is not the "fescue grass" that can cause problems, it is the endophyte, Acremonimum coenophialum, that grows symbiotically with tall fescue that can cause toxicity and problems for pregnant mares. It is especially prevelant in the tall, spring grass.

Again, FIRST determine whether or not it's fescue grass. Then, contact your vet about her being on fescue grass and the complications it can cause, since HE is the best source of information for your area. In general, mares that consume large amounts of endophyte-infested tall fescue can suffer from a number of reproducitve problems. Since Mary is close to foaling, she's already successfully "passed" several of the concerns, but there still are a few concern me at the moment, the problems of:

• prolonged gestation
  
• premature separation of the chorion
  
• dystocia
  
• thickened placenta - this concerned me when you said last year's foal didn't get out of the sack
  
• retained placenta
  
• aglactia (suppression of lactation, i.e. no milk)
  

I want to learn too, but I do know of two mares (here on the forum) that suffered prolonged gestation and lack of milk, and the vet could directly relate it to the fescue they were on during their late term pregnancy. Neither mare successfully produced a foal, both having prolonged gestations and lack of milk development.

So, that said again, FIRST determine whether it is fescue. If it is, "we" will all help you work through it. Everything may be fine, but education is the key -- and we want everything to go well with Mary and your upcoming little one.

I would take her off the grass today, and suggest putting her on Alfalfa hay, pellets or cubes. They are high in protein, vitamins and minerals, and are great "exchanges" for pasture grass. In her new little area, I would mow the grass quite short, which should deter the growth of this endophyte. She may turn her little area into a dry lot, but that's just fine, too. All my horses live on dry-lots, since in my area of Florida, we are primarily sand with no dirt, so it just means grass is hard to maintain. Since the horses can't graze, they eat what they are fed -- so it's easy to control their diets!

She's built like a good broodmare, with a nice, big hip and lots of room for baby. You've built her a nice place for her for this late stage in her pregnancy, so now we need to help her through this final month or so.

Again, I am only sharing my concerns and what I've learned about fescue-related problems, and I know you want the best for your upcoming little one. So, I would talk with your vet, read about it, talk with others in your area that may be breeding horses and what they do in the late term of pregnancy, and keep us posted on what you learn so we can learn, too.

It is really important to be available and "hands on" for your little mare during foaling. With last year's baby not getting out of the sack, and Mary coming from "down the road," it's possible that fescue may have caused a thickened sac, and Mary may need your help in getting this little one out of the sack this year. So, it sounds like you're doing everything right, and watching her carefully, which is the best thing for getting healthy babies safely on the ground.

Hopefully, others here that deal with fescue will chime in with their "personal" knowledge. I'm looking forward to more pictures to post!

Oh man, let the worrying commence!!

My biggest concern with the fescue is that I am assuming that is what caused her problems last year- and since I haven't totally taken her off the pasture I've been worried she is eating it again.

BUT- the main pasture she has been turned out in has a different type of grass then the one I'm most worried about- but it still has me a little worried.

Her new area is a dry lot already- and I'm working on getting it finished today so she can be put in there tonight or tomorrow. Once she goes in there I will be feeding her alfalfa and grains until she foals out.

If you are right about her having another month to go, that should work as far as timing and everything...right? I just wish I would have known this sooner because I would have kept her in a dry lot and fed her hay this entire time, but I guess there's not much I can do now!

I will call around and see if the fescue is a big problem here, then call the vet to see what he says. Also- i am not even sure it is fescue, so I could be worrying over nothing- so I guess I should have a knowledgeable person come identify it?

I have been handling her every day, and she seems to trust me a lot and let me do whatever I want to- as long as she has a snack that is!

I am goin to put a video baby monitor in her new area (when it's finished and she goes in there) so I can monitor her from the house. As soon as she shows me signs of that baby coming within 48 hours I will be out there camping with her. I really want to be there, and I feel like I really NEED to be there to make sure the foal makes it out of the sac.

Besides not making it out of the sac, my biggest concern (relating to the fescue) is the prolonged gestation and lack of milk production- this really freaks me out!!

I'm not looking for you guys to sugar coat it, or lie to me, but I would like some assurance that even though she might have been eating fescue the baby still has a good chance of at least being born!

Thanks again for filling me in, and sorry for my rambling! I'll let you know what I find out about our grass.

Last question- when I move her to her new pen, should I just immediately start giving her alfalfa? And how much alfalfa would you suggest I feed her? Anything else you recommend I feed her? At our local feed store I was looking at the Allegra brand Baby feed- says it is made for pregnant and lactating mares and their foals. Should I give her that AND alfalfa, or just one?

I apologize again for my lack of knowledge, and my rambling!

 

[mthowdy]

Oh what nice looking horses. Rowdy looks like an ornery one! The nail test is fun to see if it is correct, it was right for one of mine, still waitinv on Snowball to see about the next. There is a post on the main forum for posting results. Excited to see some more recent udder shots.

Thanks, I think they are rather nice looking too

Rowdy can be an ornery guy- but only with strangers

he really likes me! When I first got him, he hated being haltered and hated having his head touched at all. Now he is like my lil pasture buddy- follows me everywhere, loves head scratches/rubs. It's amazing what spending a little time each day with them can do for their personalities!

 

[mthowdy]

Well lets just pray that it isn't fescue

Oh I've been praying it isn't fescue from the minute I learned about it- but now i am praying even harder!!

Let's say she does have at least a month before delivery- is that long enough for the fescue to not effect her or the foal anymore?

 

[Eagle]

I think you should be o.k if she is treated immediately, I would call your vet first thing. Do you have any local farmers that could see if it is fescue? As to feed I will let the American girls advice you as feeds are different here in Europe, just remember that all changes should be done slowly. I just started my minis on alfalfa hay about 3 weeks ago and I started adding a couple of handfuls a day to their normal hay and gradually increased the alfalfa and decreased the older hay. After 3 weeks they are on alfalfa only. They also get a cup of alfalfa pellets and a cup of soaked beet, they are all too fat so they don't need anything else until they are feeding a foal.

I think dry lotting her is the best thing to do until you are sure about the grass and the baby monitor is a great idea. If you get the milk test strips it will save you several sleepless nights.

 

[mthowdy]

Alright everyone, time for an update!

I haven't called the vet yet, but I will first thing Monday. I'm going to ask him about the fescue, and see what he thinks the best plan is from there- then I will be sure to update you all.

For now, Mary is in the dry lot where I keep her and Rowdy at night. She will stay in there tomorrow, while Rowdy gets turned out. I am going to start giving her alfalfa- spreading it around the area.

Today we got about half way done with her new area- the fencing is up and the frame for her little barn is built. Tomorrow we have to put the sides and roof on the barn, install the baby camera and a hook for her water bucket so the foal can't get in there. After that is finished I'm going to move her in there and keep her in there until she foals. I will bed it down heavily with straw when she gets close.

The area is 11 feet by 25 feet and just a dry lot, and the barns inside dimensions are 8x8. How does that sound?

I will continue to feed her alfalfa and just spread it around her pen. I also plan on exercising her as often as I can, by walking her around the areas that don't have Fescue. Is it ok to give her whole oats as a treat occasionally?

Once she has foaled, if everything goes according to plan, I will keep her and the foal in there for about a week before I put them back out in the pasture. It will be ok for her to be eating fescue after she foals, yes? And what about the foal? I assume it will occasionally nibble on some grass, mimicking mom..?

Lastly, for now haha, is there anyone that has an opinion about feeding her the Allegra Baby brand feed (for pregnant and lactating mares and their foals) along with the alfalfa?

I think those are all the questions I have for now, and unless there is someone who wants to do another email assist with pictures, I won't be able to post any tonight! I do have the internet people coming out Monday though! Soon, I promise, I will be able to post my own pictures!

Thanks everyone, and sorry for all the questions! Hope everyone had a great day, and all the mares and foals out there are doing good and progressing nicely!!

 

[Eagle]

Hi, I am just out of bed so give me a minute but you can email me

[email protected]

 

[mthowdy]

Ok well I tried to do the whole photobucket thing, figuring that I coul somehow link them to here from my iPhone- but I can't figure that out either!!

So I will email them to Renee!

 

[Eagle]

 

[mthowdy]

Pictures sent...no rush, whenever you have time is just fine with me!! Thanks for helping me out, I'm sure all the ladies appreciate it too!

 

[Eagle]

Message from Ben,

Here are some pictures from today. It was an awesome day so I brushed the

horses out and they love it!

I feel like her belly has changed since the last picture, but that might be

wishful thinking! The foal was moving around and kicking like crazy! Mary

seemed a little irritate by it, but I found it amusing

There hasnt been much udder development from the last picture, but

strangely her udder was fuller this evening when I checked- but I forgot

my phone so I didn't get a picture. I will get one first thing in the

morning when I give her the alfalfa!

Thanks again for posting these for me!!





more to come

 

[mthowdy]

I forgot to mention that those two belly shots were taken within five minutes of each other, I just wanted to get different lighting.

 

[Eagle]

 

[Eagle]

 

[Eagle]

Great pics, she looks like she has a while yet which will give you time to get the fescue problem resolved hopefully.

 

[mthowdy]

Great pics, she looks like she has a while yet which will give you time to get the fescue problem resolved hopefully.

...month? Longer? I know it is hard to say, but it is killing me! Haha

Although I really want her to have it, I would rather have longer time so she can get the fescue toxins out of her system.

 

[Eagle]

It is really hard to say without knowing the mare, I have one that isn't due for another 2 months (hand bred once) and she is huge, yet my mare that is due in 2 weeks is not.

259 days pregnant



300days pregnant

 

[AnnaC]

Oh she is just such a good looking mare - thanks for the pics, are we going to get one of her udder too?

Re the Fescue, please remember that here are many types of Fescue in a field of grass so dont go asking people if there is Fecue grass in your area/on your land, they will probably say yes and make your blood pressure shoot sky high!! You need to ask about the one 'dangerous' type and I'm hoping for Mary's sake, they will tell you that there is not a problem and that all will be well.

One of the reasons why a lot of mini foals are lost at birth is because they dont get out of the birth sac. Some folks think this is because the sac often seems to be quite 'roomy' for a mini foal, whereas with a full sized foal the sac is pretty 'tight' fitting and the foal striking out with it's front legs will easily split the bag open. Now I dont know if this is true, but I do find that the minis I breed do seem to have foals born in very loose roomy bags, which is why I think it is so important to be there at he births.

Your preparations for Mary sound great, she's a lucky girl! I would have made her foaling stall a bit bigger, but that is just me - the more space the better is the way I think! If you were to measure Mary from nose to tail, then imagine her lying flat out in her stall, even if she was laying in the best possible position, how much room is left behind her for you plus possibly brother and/or vet to be there helping her to foal? Of course mares never lay in the 'perfect' position, so will often be found with their back ends tight up against a wall just at the wrong moment, so the size of the stall is not always a help - we have even foaled a mare out of her open door into a hastily 'padded' corridor, and she was in a stall 13' x 15'!!! But also, if the weather is bad and the foal unable to be let out for exercise, a larger stall can be useful, giving plenty of room for a lively baby to have room to scamper around.

Good luck with te Fescue enquiries - hope you find that you are free from the nasty stuff.

 

[bannerminis]

Welcome to the forum and your minis are beautiful.

I hope Mary doesnt keep you waiting too long as it does seem like slow torture watching them cook the babies and not know the breeding dates. But all you can do is watch everything and make a note and pictures are great for comparison from week to week.

 

[MeganH]

Hi and welcome!

Good luck finding about the fescue. We have several different grasses in our yard with some small areas of fescue. The fescue we have grows in small round clusters that stand out against the other. We didn't know for sure we had it until recently. We didn't cut the grass inside the dog kennel over the winter so it grew tall and there is a seed head (which makes it easy to identify)

I got my mare last year in October and she foaled a little over a week ago. I had her on Mare Stare and was watching the cam when she foaled so I was able to get out there and help and I do have to say if I wasn't there break the sac and help the foal out we would have lost her for sure. It wasn't easy for me to break.. I was surprised.

So glad you joined and hope for the best for your mare and her foal.