Maiden Mare Accidentally Killed Foal

[EllieB]

My maiden mare had her foal. I had her on camera & sat up for 3 nights straight watching her & checking on her at least every hour (usually a lot more often). When she finally had the baby, she had it outside the range of the camera, so I didn't get out there right away. I went out & checked on her within a few minutes of him being born. Cord was broke, and she'd JUST passed the placenta. The baby looked like he had been up, but obviously hadn't walked around much because the feathering on his feet was still completely in tact. But when I got there, he was up against the side of the pen, partially standing, and dead. I'm pretty positive that when he tried to nurse, she struck out & nailed him in the head....

She used to be super-touchy about her bag & her & I had to have a couple "talks" about not kicking at one's human when being touch anyplace & everyplace....She's super-good with me now & will let me handle her anywhere without fuss. But I do know that when other horses put their nose down in that area, she'll still strike out at them.

When I went out there & found the baby, she was VERY concerned for him. She was great with me handling him, but she had her nose right in there when I was trying to revive him & she was licking him, nudging him, nipping his butt trying to get him up. And when I finally did separate her from him, she ran & called for him for 2 days before she quit trying to find him. She even tried to steal one of the other mares foals (other mare was thankfully in an adjoining pen, so she couldn't get to it). But who knows what she'd have done if that other mares foal would have put his nose by her bag.....

She is also the one who has always been a superb babysitter & playmate for the foals. She loves them, just apparently doesn't want them by her bag.

Anyhow, so what do I do now?

She's a lovely mare & I've soooo been hoping for a show baby out of her. But I'm really afraid to rebreed her and have the same thing happen again. This was heartbreaking! Do you think this was a maiden-mare issue & she'll "outgrow" it next time around? She is 5 years old. Or is this something that it probably going to happen every time if I'm not there? I tried everything I could to be there this time--had off work, stayed up through the night, checked at least every hour.... And still missed it by a few minutes.

And who knows if I'll be able to make it next time; I have 3 kids, 2 jobs, and an obviously very sneaky little horse, and as much as I try, there's always the possibility that I won't make it in time....

I feel horrible because if I had been there I could have stopped it......

Any advice??

 

[PMMinis]

Aww, I am so sorry you had to have that happen. I have no advice for you but just wanted to say how sorry I feel for you and your mare

 

[The Simple Life Farm]

No advice here either. But wanted to send hugs your way, I know you and your mare are heart broken.

 

[Riverdance]

First I am very sorry that you lost your foal. It is always so hard to loose one.

If the slippers were not off of his feet, I doubt he had even been close to trying to nurse. They come off pretty quickly and it takes time for the foal to even be able to get his balance right before it starts searching for the nipples. Then it takes them a while to find the nipples. The hurse at the head, then chest, the stall walls, the bucket, just about eveything before they find the nipples.

I suspect that he was born dead and mom was pushing him around and pawing at him to get up, which managed to get him in the position you found him in.

Going out to the barn evey hour is not enough to make sure you do not miss the foaling. You could go in the barn and the mare could stand there watching you looking oh so calm. Then when you go back into the house, she could lay down and foal. If your camera does not cover the whole stall, you need to get another camera or readjust the one you have, or make the stall smaller. You should also invest in an alarm system, like Equi Page. Then you could get some sleep and when the alarm goes off, you could check your cameras to see what she was doing. She gets the pivacy she wanst in order to foal, and you get some well needed sleep.

 

[shelly]

:No-Sad OH NO...I'm so sorry to hear this! I do agree with Riverdance though that I don't think your mare kicked him...he might have hit his head on the wall hard enough while trying to stand, but who knows? I would try and rebreed her as from what you were explaining of her behavior towards him, she wants to be a mom! {{{HUGS}}} for you and your mare

 

[Reble]

First so sorry this has happened to you.

I agree possible what Riverdance is saying.

No one can really answer this question and have the right answer.

You might be wrong that your mare killed the foal?

I would try again breeding, give her some time to get back to good health.

Let your vet check her out.

If you do decide to breed again, when she is bagging up in her last month of pregnancy start daily touching her udder and hope you are there next time.

Mother nature is so cruel.

 

[EllieB]

I was handling her bag daily for over a month & at the end even spent a little extra time "messing" with it because I knew she had been touchy about it previously. Not so much as a twitch out of her when I handled it, even when she was bagged up hard. She was completely fine with me handling it.

But even now, when the other horses put their nose by it, or one of the other foals sniffs in that direction, she'll strike out & hard! (Other foals are in a separate pen, so when she's striking, she's hitting the fence & they're not in danger.)

Yes, I'm planning on getting an alarm. And I know how sneaky horses can be with foaling--we raised POAs when I was a kid & I've had & raised horses my whole life. But I'd be lying to myself if I told myself that I'd ABSOLUTELY be there the next time she foals. Nomatter what precautions I take, there's always the possibility that I'll miss it....god knows, I can sleep out in the stall with her, go in to pee & that'll be when she has it....

I'm just afraid that if she did indeed kick it, then it's something that she will do again.

It's encouraging that you don't think that's what happened-makes me a bit more confident.

Thank you for all your sentiments & advice!

 

[Cathy_H]

I am sorry that you lost the foal.

As stated no one can really say... If you do decide to breed her again I suggest touching her in the udder area daily to see if you can lessen her sensitivity.

 

[ClickMini]

I did have the same issue with my maiden mare. She foaled out her baby at 11 p.m., and I spent the rest of the night working with her and the foal trying to get her to accept him. She was striking and kicking and biting any time he tried to touch her. But she DID want to touch him. She was confused and sore. I thought I would have problems, because she was so horrible about me checking her udder, and I was right. I ended up using clicker training to get her to accept him, but she is clicker-wise and I am a very experienced clicker trainer...it would not have worked otherwise I think. Once her udder was relieved of the pressure and I got her started nursing, she was fine with it from that point.

If you do breed her back, you will have to be there, 100%. I use a camera that covers my whole stall and also use the EquiPage paging system. BOTH of these systems came into play with this foaling season, also milk strip testing and MARE STARE!!! I think you can breed her again, but will have to make the absolute commitment that either you or some other competent handler be available at all times after 300 days.

I am so sorry for your loss, it is a true heartache.

 

[ontherisefarm]

Did you happen to look at the foal's eyes? The reason I ask is if they were cloudy then the foal was already dead but if not it is possible that he could have been a red bag and being a maiden it took too long for him to be born. There could be several things that go wrong . Like Riverdance said if his slippers were in tact then he didnt try to walk at all they would have been messed up if not quite a bit off if he had been trying to nurse. Obviously if it is a case of kicking you might really need to be there next time to hold the mare while the foal tries to nurse. You may have to teach her to let the foal nurse. So she realizes that this is the same as you handling her bag. I am sorry for your loss and your mare's... Hugs to you both...

 

[garyo]

We have a mare who has given us two foals. Her first foal was born somewhat prematurely. She spun while in labor rather than lying down and actually hit his dangling head on a stall wall (luckily it did not kill him). When he was born he did not have a suckling reflex and she did not care about him at all. We had to milk her and feed him for three days before it all came together. Even then we had to guard to make sure she would let him nurse at first. She is also rather b***hy to some stallions. Then she discovered our tobiano stallion and fell in love. She was a sweetheart to him and their resulting filly was a completely different story. She snuck and had her in the pasture as I was pulling in the gate from work (Inlaws had just checked her one hour before). The baby stood up and they have been inseperable since.

My point is that her maiden birth was awful and had I not been right there throughout her labor she would have killed him before he ever even got out. Her second pregnancy and birth was very smooth and she has always been very nurturing towards that foal. My other point is that Gary and I also still have to work. Even an alarm or marestare won't transport me instantaneously from work to home. We do the best we can, have cameras and check expecting mares bags etc. We love our horses as it sounds like you do yours. Give yourself a break.

 

[T'sMinis]

I am soooooo sorry for your loss.

 

[Magic]

If the slippers were not off of his feet, I doubt he had even been close to trying to nurse. They come off pretty quickly and it takes time for the foal to even be able to get his balance right before it starts searching for the nipples. Then it takes them a while to find the nipples. The hurse at the head, then chest, the stall walls, the bucket, just about eveything before they find the nipples.

That isn't always the case here. Our stalls are so deeply bedded that the slippers sometimes take a while to come off. I've sat with foals that had already nursed but still had fully intact slippers, waiting for them to rest up and nurse again, or waiting for them to pass meconium. And, some of our foals somehow go directly to the right place and begin trying to nurse, I dont' know how they do it. (I LOVE those foals!! So much less time-consuming for me!)

I'm so very sorry for your loss.

All I could think of to be helpful is to hobble the mare, twitch her, and hold a front leg up, then let one of the other foals try nursing from her, if they would. Desensitization of this type is what she apparently needs. By this time she's likely dried up though, so I'm not sure it would work. I've helped friends with maiden mares that wouldn't let their foals nurse at first, and it took quite a bit of time, and two people. One friend lost her foal after all, because the mare just refused to allow it to nurse.

 

[ShaunaL]

I'm so sorry for your loss

 

[Joanne]

I tried everything I could to be there this time--had off work, stayed up through the night, checked at least every hour.... And still missed it by a few minutes.And who knows if I'll be able to make it next time; I have 3 kids, 2 jobs, and an obviously very sneaky little horse, and as much as I try, there's always the possibility that I won't make it in time....

I feel horrible because if I had been there I could have stopped it......

Any advice??

Breeding horses is not for everyone. There is a tremendous commitment. Being there is the number one commitment. We all know that does not solve all the problems, but many of them are helped. If you have two jobs, 3 kids, and all your other commitments, my only advise is to find someone that can foal out for you who will be responsible for being there.

 

[minie812]

I am so sorry you lost your foal. I doubt anything would have changed the outcome. I was 50 ft from a mare that redbagged and couldn't get to her in time. The maiden mare I have that is due to foal anyday is on camera 24-7 the problem with her is she lays out flatter then a pancake and will sleep that way for a long time up and down flat out allll nightttt longgg

so the halter monitor will do no good. I can only hope to catch her foaling. So will continue to watch & hope & pray & observe & see what is NORMAL for her.

 

[ClickMini]

Breeding horses is not for everyone. There is a tremendous commitment. Being there is the number one commitment. We all know that does not solve all the problems, but many of them are helped.

JoAnne, I so strongly agree with what you write in your post. I did foal out my two mares this year and it dang near killed me. I am lucky to be able to work from home, so I thought I could make it work easy enough. It worked, but it DEFINITELY was not easy. I didn't leave my house for more than a couple of hours a couple of times for a solid month. My poor husband. LOL! I was totally exhausted. I slept on the couch so the halter alarms didn't wake up my husband, and I had the camera on the TV so I could see what was going on. I was so tired, it definitely affected my work. After this experience, I decided that I would NOT be breeding any more mares, at least for the foreseeable future. It is way too involved and time-consuming if you are doing it right. I have several world-class mares, proven in the show ring or through their offspring. They are going to either be showing again, or be pets for me. I will leave the breeding to the professionals.

There are facilities that will foal out your mare for a fee. You might have to expand your horizons beyond minis to reputable breeders of large horses. We have some big-time Thoroughbred breeders in our area that will do it. If I do ever breed again, I will most likely go that route. It is expensive to do that, but I do strongly feel you owe your mare this safety net. If my Ally hadn't had someone with her when she had her dystocia, she likely would have died. She had to go to the hospital to have them extract her foal under sedation. Breeding horses is for sure something to undertake with deliberation and forethought.

 

[lilfolks]

I am so sorry for you loss and I'm sure your mare is hurting also.

I have to agree with Amy (ClickMini) of what to do next time.

I have cameras in my barn and the Breeder Alert system when I was breeding.

The combination can save you a foal.

Joyce

Little Folks Farm

 

[Genie]

Sorry for the tragedy.

Things happen so fast and you can't "beat yourself up".

I know of a person who had a mare that killed every baby she had.

Who knows why your mare happened to kill the baby, maybe unintentional, but I likely would take one more chance and hope it was an accident and not intentional.

 

[Keri]

Sorry to hear. I don't breed for many reasons. One being I would have a hard time with the foal if they died.

I was wondering though, did he have a mark on him where she could've kicked him. Generally they are so tender that a kick would result in hair loss or a mark. But I'm sorry to hear. Its just terrible either way.