Lost another foal 3rd in a row what could I have done

[indebtedfarms]

Precious finally carried a foal to term. She lost her last two at 9 months. So this year we gave her pneumabort shots and she carried for 320 days. She foaled last night. The foal died. Please read this whole post because I desperately need the advice of the forum. Her water broke and she started pushing. She would roll over and lay with all four feet straight in the air. She had a lot of water. She pushed and rolled a little for maybe 5 minutes. I reached in and felt a foot. I reached further and felt the head but not a second foot. She really started pushing and I couldn't get the other foot out. It was bent back at the knee but there seemed to be plenty of room so I helped pull the baby out. It appeared to be dead. Then it took a couple of breaths. So I gave mouth to mouth, held it upside down and cried and prayed. Once I stopped mouth to mouth, my husband tried, but it was no use. Our third little filly out of this mommy in three years was dead. She is 3 for 3. The cord was twisted really bad. Now for my questions.

1. Should I have pulled the minute the water broke?

2. Do you think it died because of the twisted cord or because I pulled with the foot back or because there was too much water and she swallowed it (there was a ton of water)?

3. Do you think this mare has something in it's make up that won't let her carry her foals?

4. Do you think that her laying on her back twisted the cord (The first foal she lost had a twisted cord too.)?

5. Would you breed her again? ( We only have 4 mares and this one had to have shots to carry to term. I know on big farms people probably wouldn't keep her because she's just too needy. My husband really wants to try her again but I don't know if I could handle it.)

I feel like I have not said everything I needed to but I didn't get any sleep last night. I hope I have said what I needed to to get some advice on this. What else could we have done to get a live foal?

Thank you in advance and I know you all are already saying prayers for Precious and for her little girl who would have been named Indebtedfarms Third Time's a Charm.

 

[kaykay]

im so sorry for your loss. I know you are just devastated

1. no i dont normally pull the second the water breaks as usually there is a delay in water breaking and the foal coming out

2. I do think the foal was already oxygen deprived due to the twisted cord. we have had this happen to and revived the foal and then it went down again.

3. I do not think this mare can be a broodmare.

4. i do not think her laying on her back caused it.

5. i would not rebreed her.

I know this is not popular but I do not believe in regumate mares. to ME if a mare cannot carry a foal without regumate then she is not meant to be a broodmare. My fear is with so many people using regumate to get foals from mares that wouldnt normally carry, they are breeding daughters that will also have to have regumate to carry a foal. So to me its stamping in qualities we dont want in our mares.

IMO what makes a great broodmare (other then passing on great conformation etc) is the ability to conceive and carry a foal to term.

Not every mare is meant to be a broodmare

 

[indebtedfarms]

im so sorry for your loss. I know you are just devastated

1. no i dont normally pull the second the water breaks as usually there is a delay in water breaking and the foal coming out

2. I do think the foal was already oxygen deprived due to the twisted cord. we have had this happen to and revived the foal and then it went down again.

3. I do not think this mare can be a broodmare.

4. i do not think her laying on her back caused it.

5. i would not rebreed her.

I know this is not popular but I do not believe in regumate mares. to ME if a mare cannot carry a foal without regumate then she is not meant to be a broodmare. My fear is with so many people using regumate to get foals from mares that wouldnt normally carry, they are breeding daughters that will also have to have regumate to carry a foal. So to me its stamping in qualities we dont want in our mares.

IMO what makes a great broodmare (other then passing on great conformation etc) is the ability to conceive and carry a foal to term.

Not every mare is meant to be a broodmare

Sorry about the quotes I still don't know how to use this forum completely. KayKay said exactly what I thought the people on the forum would say. And it's exactly what I told my husband. It shouldn't take that much to get a mare to carry to term. She's just such a pretty mare I really wanted a baby from her but I don't think I could go through that again. Thank you for responding I need reassurance on this.

 

[wc minis]

I am not experienced enough to answer your questions, but I wanted to let you know that I am sorry for your loss....

 

[PaintedMeadows]

I don't think there is anything you could have done and I wouldn't breed her again. The toll on her body and her emotionally and hormonally must be horrible for her. Sounds like she should be a companion horse or a herd Auntie. So very sorry this happened to you. Big hugs!!

 

[Reble]

We do not pull when water breaks. We wait for the feet and head.

I have noticed when they go straight on their back and all four legs up, foal in the wrong position, trying to position the baby.

I also believe with Kay the cord twisted must have done something.

When hubby has found leg turned back gets in and gets the leg out in the proper direction. I am shocked she could have it with the leg bent, but no expert here.

Minis usually need help in birthing, and since she did carry, I would try again, just what we would do.

I am into breeding so if Vet gives the OK and nothing has happen after birthing, no reason why not.

So Sorry for such a wait and have this lost. I do know breeding minis is different than the big guys.

Most of our Minis usually need some kind of help, if not just to tear the bag open, most do not get open without our help...

Good Luck in what ever you decide.

I would make sure Precious gets loose minerals from 5-6 months on in her pregnancy.

 

[ChrystalPaths]

I am so sorry for you and Precious. I agree with Kay 100%, she just isn't meant to have a foal so I would love her anyways and perhaps she can mother another weaned baby instead. I am again so very sorry.

 

[Mona]

I am so very sorry for your loss, and the ones before this one as well.

I too think the foal was most likely aleady "gone", and maybe what you thought were breaths were just air going into the lungs from the pressure of foaling?? I don't know, am only guessing, but I wish it would have had a different outcome for you.

I also agree with Kay, that laying on her back made no difference. She was doing what is normal to try and get a foal positioned into the correct foaling position.

If I owned the mare, I would not bother trying to keep breeding her. I am so sorry.

 

[capall beag]

I am very sorry for you and your mare.

Must be heartwrenching.

I would not breed this mare again. too much hard ache and IMO just doesn't seem meant to be.

I am sure it would be awfully disappointing to retire her, if your plan was to have her as a broodmare, but I would.

It doesn't sound like you did or are doing anything wrong, her body just does not seem suited to carrying foals.

Don't blame your self.

 

[Debby - LB]

I am so very sorry for your loss. I agree with the others here, poor dear is not meant to be a broodmare. Please give your little mare lots of hugs and accept her as she is.

Please be advised, I'm adding this so others who may pull this up in the future searching for something will see it....you cannot give Mouth to Mouth to a horse, you must give Mouth to Nose.

 

[Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis]

first off I am very sorry for your loss i know how heartbreaking it is...

1. Should I have pulled the minute the water broke?

I usually wait a minute or two to see what will happen however if your gut is telling you (or your mare by rolling and getting up and down) something is wrong you can go in and check position

2. Do you think it died because of the twisted cord or because I pulled with the foot back or because there was too much water and she swallowed it (there was a ton of water)?

No- having not been there it is hard to say but sometimes youhave no choice but to remove the foal even if it is not in the desired position

3. Do you think this mare has something in it's make up that won't let her carry her foals?

I am not sure however if she was my mare I would opt to not breed her anymore

4. Do you think that her laying on her back twisted the cord (The first foal she lost had a twisted cord too.)?

Many times the mares will do this to reposition the foal and it doesnt always result in a twisted cord so I am going to say no here.

I am guessing from your thread you mean the pnumabort shots and I wouldn t consider needing those to keep her in foal say like using regumate is many people do this as common practice and regular pre natal type of care

While I dont think it is cruel ect I wont use regumate to keep a mare in foal sometimes things are the way they are for a reason. I am not sure in this case regumate would make a difference.

I would suggest starting with a full repro work up with your vet to see if there is any sign of infection or anything that might not be up to par to give you a medical reason for what is happening and surely would do do before ever breeding her again.

5. Would you breed her again? ( We only have 4 mares and this one had to have shots to carry to term. I know on big farms people probably wouldn't keep her because she's just too needy. My husband really wants to try her again but I don't know if I could handle it.)

No I would not

Again I am very sorry for your loss

 

[Sunny]

im so sorry for your loss. I know you are just devastated

1. no i dont normally pull the second the water breaks as usually there is a delay in water breaking and the foal coming out

2. I do think the foal was already oxygen deprived due to the twisted cord. we have had this happen to and revived the foal and then it went down again.

3. I do not think this mare can be a broodmare.

4. i do not think her laying on her back caused it.

5. i would not rebreed her.

I know this is not popular but I do not believe in regumate mares. to ME if a mare cannot carry a foal without regumate then she is not meant to be a broodmare. My fear is with so many people using regumate to get foals from mares that wouldnt normally carry, they are breeding daughters that will also have to have regumate to carry a foal. So to me its stamping in qualities we dont want in our mares.

IMO what makes a great broodmare (other then passing on great conformation etc) is the ability to conceive and carry a foal to term.

Not every mare is meant to be a broodmare

I'm so very sorry for your losses. I can't even imagine how heart breaking it must be for you and your Precious mare. My heart and prayers go out to you.

I agree 100% with every word Kay wrote, especially the second half of her post!!

 

[jlh]

I'm so sorry for your loss, it is especially heart-breaking when you do so much.

that said, if the mare is as special to you as she sounds, I concentrate on enjoyig her, and not worry about a baby.

I hit this wall every year we foal out, where I get very worried about the mares. even when we love a foal more than her mother, I hate the tension of waiting for a good outcome.

is there any reason you can't wait another year to decide if you want to try again?

 

[kaykay]

lisa I had read another of her posts that said this mare was on regumate so thats where I got that

I feel so bad for you as I know how bad you want a foal from this mare. I bet she would make a great weaning babysitter for weaned foals in the future.

 

[MeadowRidge Farm]

I would definitely not rebred her, she just wasnt meant to be a broodmare. I would keep her as love her for who she is. I also agree with what everyone else has said. I know its heartbreaking to lose one, but sometimes things like this happen for a reason. Go out and give her a big (((HUG))) and be happy having her as your pal. Corinne

 

[Rachel]

How heartbreaking! I am so sorry for your loss.

 

[Cathy_H]

I am so sorry for your losses.

I know the feeling. I agree she is not meant to be a broodmare...... We had a broodmare similar to yours. Lost two foals between 8-9 months. The last one was carried until 10 months but we lost it also. Vet could not find any reason why she was losing the foals. We also gave this mare regumate during two of those pregnancies....... We sold her as a pet to never be bred again.

 

[JSH Ponies]

: I am so sorry for your loss , But I am with Kay , I don't think that I would breed her again . Again I am so sorry , Jody

 

[minisforever]

So sorry for your loss. I don't think you could have done any more than you did. I did just want to add that lots of people do not realize that a horse cannot breath through it's mouth. You must give mouth to nose on a foal and make sure that the nasal passage is clear of fluids. Best of luck with whatever decision you make but don't beat yourself up over this. You did all that you could do and demonstrated the fact that you are a good owner by being present during the delivery.

 

[Rauchmini's]

I'm so so for your loss, my heart goes out to you and your mare.