Letter to the editor

[Field-of-Dreams]

Twenty head of horses went out of here in the last few weeks. No papers and good homes for fair money.

And this makes me sad. Twenty horses sold without papers. Sure, good homes NOW, but what about down the road? What happens if they can't keep them forever? What if the owners decide "hey, I wanna show in Mini shows now? Oops, no papers, can't show this guy, gotta get rid of him and get a registered horse to show..." IT HAPPENS.

Then said unregistered horse ends up on Craigslist, where someone like me sees him. OOOO, gorgeous horse, let me inquire about him!! Soorryy.... no papers! (Yes, I have bought horses from Craigslist- one is a gorgeous AMHA/AMHR Futurity nominated colt!)

You do your horses such a disservice withholding papers. And if you got "fair money" why waffle about TWENTY DOLLARS to register a weanling?? That "worthless" piece of paper could save his life.

 

[LaVern]

I can go visit them when I want and will see most of them next summer. Can most say that for those, they sell registered or not. If fact I got Christmas pictures from some of the not registered ones I sold 20 years ago.(same owners)

Neighbor has four up three year olds ready for next summer. I could send pictures of dozens and dozens of them all dolled up and driving and pulling.

I will stop now as I have tried hard enough to make my point. Oh, was going to add though, that the last time I brought this subject up I had a call from a former director of many years, who said I hope you don't think that I had anything to do with such stupidity, so at least I did not feel all alone.

 

[Minimor]

I didn't specifically answer your question, Renee, because it is a moot point. I am quite sure that such a thing isn't going to happen...that they will open ASPC to and and all other breeds (and quite frankly if they did do that it wouldn't affect me in the slightest. I am not raising/selling ponies, and it would have no effect on me whatsoever! LOL I'm quite sure there are dozens of people who would have something to say about it but it would not affect me personally.

But what is that compared to having to face the girls and say well guess they still think your papers are worthless, even if you have produced National Grand Champions.

Truth is, "they" don't think the papers on AMHR horses are worthless at all--from everything that I have read here and heard from people I have talked to, there is only one person that thinks AMHR papers are worthless, and that is you.

 

[slv]

I meant every word of it Renee. You have contributed so much to the breed. Don't throw in the towel now, over a registry or any other matter. Also take a deep breath and a walk through the pasture and look at all of those beautiful horses, don't let them or yourself down...now or ever!!!

They don't know or care what set of papers they have, and believe me, people will still buy them and respect your breeding program as much as they always have.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

Minimor, I asked you how you would feel you didn't answer and it has been done before. How would you feel?

We don't have to close the registry to up the hard shipping fees in line with AMHA and ask for inspection, at least height and two balls.

Twenty head of horses went out of here in the last few weeks. No papers and good homes for fair money.

And we already have to pay a fee to give them our money, it is called our membership.

OK i always thought i was smart, and i was always told i had a high IQ, but dang!!!! i am just not getting this???

I think this will help the registry, and everyone involved, at least the way i think about it. Half price harshipping means people will take advantage and hard ship, then there will be more horses at shows, more registered, which i would think would mean more people wanting AMHR horses, and the value would increase???? That i would think would be a good thing????

As far as selling horses without papers, i only do that when i have been sold a horse that i am suspicious of parentage, or the papers just dont match. We guarentee all paper work from my farm, and guarentee all foals to parent qualify, therefore all paper work is a sure thing, if its bred and born at Lil Hoofbeats, I take pride in that.

 

[Songcatcher]

I have stayed out of this debate until now as I can truely see both pros and cons to the idea. BUT, this statement is a slap in the face to every breeder who chooses to raise AMHA only registered horses:

.. Have we been downgraded so long that we can't get used to the fact that we are on top and that the AMHR is the one registry you have to have and they should be worth more than 100 dollars. They can be doubled or tripled or registered 20 times, but if you don't have AMHR you are in a pickle.

THAT is truely arrogant! All but one of my horses is double registered AMHA/AMHR, and I am on the fence as to whether or not I will hardship that BTU grand daughter in to AMHR or not. I have never had a problem with AMHR, but I do have a problem with breeders with an attitude like this that a horse is no good unless it is AMHR. It's hard to have much sympathy for your position when you so proudly insult other's horses.

 

[bevann]

I so agree with Field of Dreams regarding horses being sold with no papers.IMO papers (if horses are born from registered stock)should go with the animal.Colts not to be used for breeding should be castrated etc.After reading all comments I SO wish people would stop fighting about which registry is better.We all need to work together to ensure the continued future of these amazing little creatures no matter which registry you favor.Each has it own merits and in some areas of the country 1 is better than the other.When I was actively breeding I made sure all my animals were double registered so no matter where they ended up they could be shown if the owner desired.I just hate to see the Mini with no papers and having to tell the newbie they can't show now that the kids have decided they want to show.(They bought from a breeder who neglected to give them all the facts about registries and show requirements.)Even many state fairs are now requiring that Minis be registered in AMHA or AMHR.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

I have stayed out of this debate until now as I can truely see both pros and cons to the idea. BUT, this statement is a slap in the face to every breeder who chooses to raise AMHA only registered horses:

THAT is truely arrogant! All but one of my horses is double registered AMHA/AMHR, and I am on the fence as to whether or not I will hardship that BTU grand daughter in to AMHR or not. I have never had a problem with AMHR, but I do have a problem with breeders with an attitude like this that a horse is no good unless it is AMHR. It's hard to have much sympathy for your position when you so proudly insult other's horses.

I agree and I only do AMHR. IMO both AMHA and AMHR are just as valuable if not more so for AMHA due to them closing the registry. It may pay more to get a double registered horse but at the end I think more people will choose one or the other and I think more will go towards AMHR but not with this attitude. This topic certaintly shows that you don't want new people coming into our registry. Which is a shame because without its members AMHR wouldn't exist.

I also agree that giving away 20 unregistered horses just doesn't look positive. Unless they have problems to where they shouldn't be breeding or shown I always give papers. I think posting this topic saying that AMHR is hurting the breeders and that the AMHR horse is worthless now because of this sale and then go and sell 20 unregistered horses just doesn't make any sense. You may also need to take a step back and look at your breeding program perhaps breed for fewer horses to make it more affordable. I also don't get that you don't want to close the registry but you don't want to see the prices drop for just 1 year, whats a couple $100s going to change the value of an AMHR horse? Closing the registry would make your AMHR horse more valuable.

I just totally don't understand.

 

[alongman]

I know Renee well, I own horses from Lucky Hart that have gone on to be instrumental in my own breeding program. To say it best, Renee has a strong opinion and you always know where and what she is thinking on a subject. For this, I admire you! I will admit, there are horses that are being hardshipped that do not have the conformation, pedigree, etc... to become the next great National Grand Champion. BUT, what if this "hardship" change allows one exhibitor to be cost-efficient and learn about the AMHR? I purchased one horse - one I could afford, and from that it has grown into a business for me.

Just to clarify, I do have one mare that is ASPC only registered, but I intend to register her into the AMHR and take advantage of the price cut. HOWEVER, in order for this to happen, she needs to 1) be measured and height verified by a steward and 2) be inspected by an AMHR carded judge for conformation, etc... and then the judge needs to sign saying that this animal is acceptable. I cannot simply send in my money and a piece of paper and get her AMHR papers. I do feel that the other registries should be handled the same (AMHA, Falabella) in order to preserve what breeders, like Renee, have been working to achieve.

I know I am rambling, but as a side note, I am a carded judge and have been asked to participate in the hardship inspection of horses during my career - I can honestly say that I take this as a huge job. I truly evaluate the animal and what it will contribute to the breed, it's conformation, etc... I can also honestly say that I have NOT signed every hardship inspection based on these feelings. I do not take my judging job lightly, so part of this responsiblity needs to fall on my peers (not just the AMHR/ASPC board) to hear your feelings as well so that they can make sound decision.

 

[LaVern]

I was going to quit, but can't resist responding to songcatcher. I have never been accused of being arrogant, but if the shoe fits I will wear it gladly. I am so proud of where we have come with the AMHR horse that I just about burst with pride when I think back. If I sound arrogant - good - because the shoe is on the other foot now.

How many years of being put down, for our Only AMHR horses. Come on you old AMHA breeders, you remember. "Well if it goes over you can always put it in the Illinois outfit. They couldn't even say, AMHR out loud.

That is why I am so upset that our directors would do this. Why is it okay for AMHA to insist on inspecting our horses and charging 3 times as much? And then (they won't even acknowledge our pedigrees on their papers. That seems a little arrogant don't you think?

But I do think they are right about the inspections,we should do the same.

 

[alongman]

Why is it okay for AMHA to insist on inspecting our horses and charging 3 times as much? And then (they won't even acknowledge our pedigrees on their papers. That seems a little arrogant don't you think?

But I do think they are right about the inspections,we should do the same.

I could be wrong, but I believe that THAT was the reason that the board decided to pursue this (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). They saw the AMHA has having some difficulties and not bringing in new faces/horses and were hoping to maybe draw in some more people to the AMHR. I would hate to think that the AMHR did this only as a quick money maker.

 

[lil hoofbeats]

OK i totally do not get this thread, people are upset that the AMHR cut harshipping fees in half? right?

They are saying that that devalues the AMHR horses?

Freeland is mad because Lavern said the AMHR was the registry to be in???

The AMHR people are saying they were(past tense) the registry to be in??? but now they are not because of the hardship discount??

For some reason i am not understanding all this and why the discount to hardship your horse into AMHR is a big deal to some breeders?

Can someone clarify all this, because i have read this thread several times and i am sure i have missed something.

Can someone PM and tell me what is going on????

 

[LaVern]

Yeah I'm getting confused too and I'm the one that is mad. Oh yeah, I am mad because they lowered the fees to hardship AMHR horses. And I am mad that they we don't have to inspect the AMHA and the Fallabella horses like they do the Shetland Ponies at three years old.

 

[horsehug]

Lil Hoofbeats, I'd pm you if I had a clue, but I am also very confused.

Susan O.

 

[LaVern]

Thank you Adam, for your explanation. It is not an easy process to bring the Shetlands into the AMHR. But I think a very good and fair way of doing it because of how it was designed. The using of Stewards and Judges makes it easier to implement and also there is the accountability factor. You just have to get to a show.

 

[Mona]

I do have a problem with breeders with an attitude like this that a horse is no good unless it is AMHR. It's hard to have much sympathy for your position when you so proudly insult other's horses.

Songcatcher, the above quote by you is EXACTLY the way it used to be thought about AMHR horses by many AMHA supporters. They somehow felt that AMHA was the "elite" registry and the AMHR was a "trash only" registry that you would only register your horses with if they outgrew their AMHA papers. I experienced it myself first hand when I was just getting into minis about 18 years ago. Looking in from the outside, it really made me angry with those that said that to me. It was them that I felt were the very ARROGANT ones, not only to think or feel that way, but to come right out and state this to a total stranger, in trying to make a sale of one of their horses once they found out I was looking at several other farms as well.

And it was back around that same time, that I met Renee in person, for the first time. She went out of her way to welcome me to the mini horse world, and to offer help and advice on horses, but was not pushy nor belittling other breeders choices in which registry was "the" one to use. She even offered me the use of one of her stallions for a year to help me get started! I declined, but looking back now at the great success she has had, maybe I should have accepted that generous offer of hers!

Anyway, I guess I got a little off track, but my point that I wanted to make was to point out to Freeland that the way he feels reading these posts of Renee's is exactly the way we were made to feel about AMHR horses many years ago. What do they call it....KARMA???

 

[slv]

LilHoofbeats....I perhaps would understand it more if it used to cost $2000 to hardship a mare and now it is $100, that is a significant difference. But honestly, if I have a horse that I think needs the AMHR registration papers, the current "full price" would NOT stop me. I think Renee is upset because she has devoted her entire program to AMHR horses and feels as though some how this devalues them. I don't understand that thought at all, but that is what I am getting from this thread. When we started in minis in 1997 the AMHR horses were only bringing about half the price of AMHA horses in our area. I have always made sure that my horses were all AMHA registered and most all of them are AMHA/AMHR. I do, however, have a few really nice mares that came from strictly AMHA breeders that I would like to add the AMHR papers to. I have never got into the politics of the registries. I am afraid if I did that I would not enjoy my horses nearly as much. I have supported both registries since our inception into the miniature horse business and will continue to do so. I have found that over the years, I personally have grown a little more partial to the AMHR registry for several reasons that I won't go into now. I also would like to see less of the "we and them" attitude and more of the us, but that is most likely "wishful thinking".

 

[Tab]

I think the attempt is to help this breed during hard economic times. A double-registered horse has a higher value, and that will help many people. I think this is great if people are honest. It is just that change is so hard. People will somehow manage to corrupt a good thing.

I have mixed emotions, as minis are going back to American shetlands, and American shetlands are infused with hackney, and hackney are disappearing. It is happening, it doesn't matter how we feel, or how much we have forked over to the registries.

I really do think it will help with value though. A lot of people can't even spare $100 right now, so I'm not really seeing a problem. Especially since this is not going to be the same price or rule 20 years from now. These rules change constantly.

 

[sfmini]

I am glad they are doing it, I got all but one horse registered from AMHA to AMHR before they "closed" the books by raising the price so high. Couldn't find her papers at the time, so skipped it.

While I have had many regrets at not getting her in, the price was too steep for me since we are 99% AMHA showing anyway. Now that I am trying to sell her, the lack of AMHR papers has been a headache to say the least so I am happy for the lower price and will be registering her AMHR at the new lower price for sure.

 

[JMS Miniatures]

And we as AMHR members can't be the bigger person and not bash the other registeries or are we going to go down the same path that AMHA did and just lower ourselves even further?