mydaddysjag
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Deleted because this has spun out of control
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I've deleted my posts
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nootka
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I agree with you, mydaddysjag. Not many feel the same way, and to each their own. My concern is that the colt may not be fully rehabilitated, but then again, a new, better home could come up and continue his rehabilitation. I know when I had my colt in similar condition, it was 6 months before he looked right. Have no idea about the timeline on this one.
There are many people out there with lots of different ideas of breeding quality. Again let's just hope he gets another loving home that feeds him well, and is responsible with his offspring if they choose to purchase him.
If it were mine, I would have gelded him before he left. That's my policy with just about everything, though, with a very rare exception. I know that any gender of horse can end up in a bad situation, but IMO, the fact that stallions can breed makes their chances higher for being neglected or mistreated because they have one attraction: those sperm. Someone looking for something truly special will realize that a stallion is born probably every minute, and that only the very top quality is anything they would even be concerned with.
Guessing that his seller has his best intentions in mind, that is what I hope. That's all that really matters.
Liz
Wow this is quite an interesting thread.
I have no clue who yalls are talking about but the way I see it, (correct me if I am wrong)
An individual purchased a horse out of a bad situation and nursed him back to health, correct?
Then put him up for sale as a stallion saying he had possibilities of producing pinto foals, correct?
Well the way I see it, that is the owners horse and she/he is entitled to do whatever he/she wants to with him because it's his/ her business.
I do understand where you are coming from Mydaddysjag and very much respect your honorable opinion, however, whether or not the stallion is stallion material in anyone's eyes is not the point. The point is according to the Constitution of the United States he/she is entitled to make her own decision in regards to the horse that she rightfully owns; just as you call the shots at your farm, and I call the shots at mine and if someone else doesn't approve of what I do on my farm, I don't give a rats you know what cause it's me that does the work and pays the bills. Just think, if everyone began to scrutinize every add on the sales board and brought it to the forum for a discussion, I'd think the sales board would be lacking quite a few ads and we'd all be in trouble.
If he/she had him gelded and then offered him for sale would this be a forum topic today? I think not.
Is it a possibility that he/she doesn't have any more money left to geld him with and has to let him go "as is"? These are things we do not know.
I am not saying he/she should have not gelded the horse before offering him up for sale, again because I don't judge who should geld who around here, but I do say, whoever he/she is thank you for bothering to rescue him in the first place when others may have looked the other way and did nothing and allowed this horse to stay there and croak. I hope he/ she does make a profit because he/she saved his life. I think that is what counts most.
I have no clue who yalls are talking about but the way I see it, (correct me if I am wrong)
An individual purchased a horse out of a bad situation and nursed him back to health, correct?
Then put him up for sale as a stallion saying he had possibilities of producing pinto foals, correct?
Well the way I see it, that is the owners horse and she/he is entitled to do whatever he/she wants to with him because it's his/ her business.
I do understand where you are coming from Mydaddysjag and very much respect your honorable opinion, however, whether or not the stallion is stallion material in anyone's eyes is not the point. The point is according to the Constitution of the United States he/she is entitled to make her own decision in regards to the horse that she rightfully owns; just as you call the shots at your farm, and I call the shots at mine and if someone else doesn't approve of what I do on my farm, I don't give a rats you know what cause it's me that does the work and pays the bills. Just think, if everyone began to scrutinize every add on the sales board and brought it to the forum for a discussion, I'd think the sales board would be lacking quite a few ads and we'd all be in trouble.
If he/she had him gelded and then offered him for sale would this be a forum topic today? I think not.
Is it a possibility that he/she doesn't have any more money left to geld him with and has to let him go "as is"? These are things we do not know.
I am not saying he/she should have not gelded the horse before offering him up for sale, again because I don't judge who should geld who around here, but I do say, whoever he/she is thank you for bothering to rescue him in the first place when others may have looked the other way and did nothing and allowed this horse to stay there and croak. I hope he/ she does make a profit because he/she saved his life. I think that is what counts most.
rabbitsfizz
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If you sell a horse, that horse leaves your control and can go into bad or good circumstances.
If you buy a horse out of those bad circumstances, out of a desire to help it, not because you want or need it, and then get it into good health and sell it, hoping to recoup the money you have spent- GOOD FOR YOU!!!
I have absolutely NO problem with any of this- I think we have all done it at least I would like to think we have,
Maybe we have gelded a colt before selling him on- if so this is certainly the scenario I preferred but it is not mandatory!
What I object to, the only part I object to, is describing this as a "rescue" when it patently is not.
It is someone taking on a project- and to describe it as such would far more accurate.
"This colt was a project of mine- he is a very pretty Palomino who came from an awful place where he was half starved, he is now fully rehabilitated and ready to put some colourful babies in your barn, or could be gelded to make a lovely driving horse"
What is wrong with that??
No claims of "rescue" just a description of the hard work put in out of the goodness of the buyers heart.
Rescue Organizations are a different ballgame altogether and claiming to have rescued a horse when you have bought it in bad condition could leave you open to legal action from the former owner!!!!
If you buy a horse out of those bad circumstances, out of a desire to help it, not because you want or need it, and then get it into good health and sell it, hoping to recoup the money you have spent- GOOD FOR YOU!!!
I have absolutely NO problem with any of this- I think we have all done it at least I would like to think we have,
Maybe we have gelded a colt before selling him on- if so this is certainly the scenario I preferred but it is not mandatory!
What I object to, the only part I object to, is describing this as a "rescue" when it patently is not.
It is someone taking on a project- and to describe it as such would far more accurate.
"This colt was a project of mine- he is a very pretty Palomino who came from an awful place where he was half starved, he is now fully rehabilitated and ready to put some colourful babies in your barn, or could be gelded to make a lovely driving horse"
What is wrong with that??
No claims of "rescue" just a description of the hard work put in out of the goodness of the buyers heart.
Rescue Organizations are a different ballgame altogether and claiming to have rescued a horse when you have bought it in bad condition could leave you open to legal action from the former owner!!!!
ChrystalPaths
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Ok I'm late (as usual). I see no out of control statements here just the usual strong opinions. I will ditto both Marty and Jane. I have a 20 yr old stallion here who desperately needed a home, and I don't breed anymore! 
OH! I like his owner and she helped me out once so I took him in. He's a cutie, the old fashioned type horse but he always singing and screaming, "I'm too sexyy....
", he doesn't know he's old. Should I geld him? Nope, he's 20, he's healthy and happy and hasn't had any sex but he sure loves all the posturing. imho he could show well because he has that sass but he's mine for now and he's fine in his own pen with a gate to kiss the sexy black thru (and nothing more).
OH! I like his owner and she helped me out once so I took him in. He's a cutie, the old fashioned type horse but he always singing and screaming, "I'm too sexyy....
MeadowRidge Farm
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I think the whole situation is sad about this particular stallion, he should not of been considered a rescue, since "the buyer" told the original owner they wanted to buy him for the show ring! He did need some good groceries, due to the fact that he had been sick prior to the buyer buying him, but the part of him being sick never was mentioned, he was current on all his shots, worming, etc.alot of drama was involved, on the part of the buyer..IMO. This stallion should of been gelded if the buyer truly wanted to do something good for the horse and breed, but then again, this buyer IMHO is very inexperienced and I really dont think the buyer wants to listen to anything negative, only what the buyer wants to hear.
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nootka
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I would not say this got out of control.
What I would say is that too many of us knew the story, and knew other stories/knew the person. I just think that some people don't know what they want, and buy/sell/buy/sell while they are still deciding. That is their perogative, and all we can hope is that the horses end up in good homes on all sides of the deal.
There is a person here in the NW that has bought and sold whole new herds about a dozen times since 2001, sometimes re-buying the same horses, but what's clear is that they have mental problems. Such is life.
I have NO problem with someone buying a horse to make it better somehow and offering it for sale to someone else that has more of a need or desire for it. No problem whatsoever. I have done it myself. I was given a filly that was neglected along with her dam, in return for selling the dam. I had no use for her, nor room, so I did sell her after spending the time to feed her up, have her looked at by vets and farrier, as well train her to tie and lead, and all the things a weanling filly should know. I didn't really "make" money, but my intent all along was to sell her as she was related to the stallion I had at the time. Still, she has a wonderful new home (made sure of that), and she had a great time while she was here.
I think a horse is basically a commodity to people, and I am fine with that, as long as its basic needs are met.
Liz
What I would say is that too many of us knew the story, and knew other stories/knew the person. I just think that some people don't know what they want, and buy/sell/buy/sell while they are still deciding. That is their perogative, and all we can hope is that the horses end up in good homes on all sides of the deal.
There is a person here in the NW that has bought and sold whole new herds about a dozen times since 2001, sometimes re-buying the same horses, but what's clear is that they have mental problems. Such is life.
I have NO problem with someone buying a horse to make it better somehow and offering it for sale to someone else that has more of a need or desire for it. No problem whatsoever. I have done it myself. I was given a filly that was neglected along with her dam, in return for selling the dam. I had no use for her, nor room, so I did sell her after spending the time to feed her up, have her looked at by vets and farrier, as well train her to tie and lead, and all the things a weanling filly should know. I didn't really "make" money, but my intent all along was to sell her as she was related to the stallion I had at the time. Still, she has a wonderful new home (made sure of that), and she had a great time while she was here.
I think a horse is basically a commodity to people, and I am fine with that, as long as its basic needs are met.
Liz
mydaddysjag
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Well, the posts on this board that the owner has made are all calling the horse a RESCUE.
I beleive the owner has had this horse for 2 months, maybe 2 and a half. Sure, it probably has a full winter coat by now, and it's probably hard to see just how much the horse has recovered. I hope that the horse has made a recovery in the two months he has been with his owner, but im not sure how likely that is. Hes a 2 year old stallion being described as wonderful for children. Well, I hope that he truley does have that kind of temperment and isnt just so laid back from being so thin. I have personally bought thin horses that were VERY laid back, just to put weight on them and find out I had something completely different. I hope whoever gets this guy realizes that he may be a lot more spirited after a full recovery, and if he is, noones children get hurt. I was about 15 at the time, and when my thin horse got fat and sassy, she had to be given to a trainer because noone in their right mind would pay anything for a horse as wound up as her, and I was almost seriously injured a number of times. It was my first horse, and I wasnt experienced enough to handle her. Sure, we kept her for almost 2 years trying to work through her issues, but my family and myself decided that it wasnt worth getting hurt over. Though when I got her she was sweet as pie. Before bringing her home she was ridden along the rode with cars, through a stream, etc. Well add a few hundred pounds and she wasnt so willing. Actually, she couldnt even be saddled. She would kick out when you would brush her, and sometimes even bite for no reason what so ever. From being skinny when I got her she was very over protective of her food. I wouldn't havce dared trying to get into her stall while she had hay or grain in there. I realize that this is a much bigger horse, but I am also much bigger than most peoples children, so Its comparable in size. True the owner dosen't have the horse listed for sale as a rescue, it was only their posts on her that called it a rescue. If I were to buy a horse that came out of the situation that he did I would hope that the owner I purchased him from informed me of it so that I could continue on with its recovery and watch for any long term problems it may have. Sorry for getting everyones feathers ruffled, I guess Im just young and have a lot to learn.
I beleive the owner has had this horse for 2 months, maybe 2 and a half. Sure, it probably has a full winter coat by now, and it's probably hard to see just how much the horse has recovered. I hope that the horse has made a recovery in the two months he has been with his owner, but im not sure how likely that is. Hes a 2 year old stallion being described as wonderful for children. Well, I hope that he truley does have that kind of temperment and isnt just so laid back from being so thin. I have personally bought thin horses that were VERY laid back, just to put weight on them and find out I had something completely different. I hope whoever gets this guy realizes that he may be a lot more spirited after a full recovery, and if he is, noones children get hurt. I was about 15 at the time, and when my thin horse got fat and sassy, she had to be given to a trainer because noone in their right mind would pay anything for a horse as wound up as her, and I was almost seriously injured a number of times. It was my first horse, and I wasnt experienced enough to handle her. Sure, we kept her for almost 2 years trying to work through her issues, but my family and myself decided that it wasnt worth getting hurt over. Though when I got her she was sweet as pie. Before bringing her home she was ridden along the rode with cars, through a stream, etc. Well add a few hundred pounds and she wasnt so willing. Actually, she couldnt even be saddled. She would kick out when you would brush her, and sometimes even bite for no reason what so ever. From being skinny when I got her she was very over protective of her food. I wouldn't havce dared trying to get into her stall while she had hay or grain in there. I realize that this is a much bigger horse, but I am also much bigger than most peoples children, so Its comparable in size. True the owner dosen't have the horse listed for sale as a rescue, it was only their posts on her that called it a rescue. If I were to buy a horse that came out of the situation that he did I would hope that the owner I purchased him from informed me of it so that I could continue on with its recovery and watch for any long term problems it may have. Sorry for getting everyones feathers ruffled, I guess Im just young and have a lot to learn.
nootka
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mydaddysjag, I think you were right on, but if someone took your comments generally, they would get offended. Specifically (as in this case) I agree with you wholeheartedly, but then again, I consider all else that I know about the situation. We all have the ability to learn from our mistakes and vow to do better, and then get to work actually putting our money where our mouth is.
My concern echoes yours in that this particular horse is likely not quite 100% ready to find a new home, but then, as long as that new home is aware of the past and able to continue with getting him reconditioned and trained to BE all that he can be, that would be the best.
I would hope, ideally, that all sales would be so oriented, and yes, I think the person doing the advertising likely wanted the attention and kudos from the "rescue" but realistically has determined that this horse is just not what they need or want for breeding, so willing to pass him on to someone else. I believe they did the same with another horse they realized was not breeding quality, and disposed of them as they see fit.
We all do it.
Liz
My concern echoes yours in that this particular horse is likely not quite 100% ready to find a new home, but then, as long as that new home is aware of the past and able to continue with getting him reconditioned and trained to BE all that he can be, that would be the best.
I would hope, ideally, that all sales would be so oriented, and yes, I think the person doing the advertising likely wanted the attention and kudos from the "rescue" but realistically has determined that this horse is just not what they need or want for breeding, so willing to pass him on to someone else. I believe they did the same with another horse they realized was not breeding quality, and disposed of them as they see fit.
We all do it.
Liz
Mini Mouse
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QUOTE
Maybe im just gelding crazy, but if its not amazing it looses its meat balls. Heck, even if it is amazing, it might loose em. Why add more horses to an already overpopulated market? Thats part of why the prices are so low I don't know who made this post but my comment isn't just toward you. Just using this as an example.
First off, I'm not a breeder. I have 2 pet minis AND they ARE gelded. It just amazes me at all the comments on this forum about gelding and NOT breeding because YOU don't think the quality is there and "WHY ADD TO AN ALREADY OVERPOPULATED MARKET", when most everyone on here is breeding every year. What say, everyone on this forum DOESN'T BREED for 2 years and see what happens. Maybe the market will come back up and maybe some overpopulated horses can get a home.
I agree there is an overpopulation so why keep breeding and breeding year after year.
Maybe im just gelding crazy, but if its not amazing it looses its meat balls. Heck, even if it is amazing, it might loose em. Why add more horses to an already overpopulated market? Thats part of why the prices are so low I don't know who made this post but my comment isn't just toward you. Just using this as an example.
First off, I'm not a breeder. I have 2 pet minis AND they ARE gelded. It just amazes me at all the comments on this forum about gelding and NOT breeding because YOU don't think the quality is there and "WHY ADD TO AN ALREADY OVERPOPULATED MARKET", when most everyone on here is breeding every year. What say, everyone on this forum DOESN'T BREED for 2 years and see what happens. Maybe the market will come back up and maybe some overpopulated horses can get a home.
I agree there is an overpopulation so why keep breeding and breeding year after year.
L
Lisa-Ruff N Tuff Minis
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First off, I'm not a breeder. I have 2 pet minis AND they ARE gelded. It just amazes me at all the comments on this forum about gelding and NOT breeding because YOU don't think the quality is there and "WHY ADD TO AN ALREADY OVERPOPULATED MARKET", when most everyone on here is breeding every year. What say, everyone on this forum DOESN'T BREED for 2 years and see what happens. Maybe the market will come back up and maybe some overpopulated horses can get a home.
I agree there is an overpopulation so why keep breeding and breeding year after year.
I have always said that if everyone just didnt breed one mare they had planned on breeding it would save hundreds of foals.
The issue I think is that everyone is sure they are breeding better quality then the next one, maybe there horse has won a ribbon or two so that makes it better or maybe it is a pretty color so that makes it better. Seems it is always easier for ALL OF US to see faults in others horses then in our own.
I have opted to no longer breed. That is not to say I will never again have another foal here but we will not be in the breeding buisness and we for sure will have no foals in 2007, 2008, or 2009 for that very reason.
It is just what works for ME not saying it will work for everyone.
mydaddysjag
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Well, I can personally say I have never bred a horse. Im currently looking at getting a new show horse, and I already told the breeder straight forward that If I chose the colt she has that it will be Gelded. This horse is stallion quality, he is actually her favorite foal, and she is a respected trainer who shows and has a few national champions, so I trust that she knows what show and stallion quality is. I chose to tell her about my plan to geld because I realize that he is a quality stud colt and she may have hoped he stayed a stud. Her response was that if she kept him she was going to keep him, geld him, and show him and also show him in the Super G. I personally am not one of the people who preach to geld then have a bunch of studs, or always breed mares.
Hopefully this horse finds him a new home who is informed about his past and keeps rehabilitating him.
Hopefully this horse finds him a new home who is informed about his past and keeps rehabilitating him.
MeadowRidge Farm
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I have not had any foals this past year, and I will not have any in 2008. Before that, I was very selective on a few mares, usually only 2-3. But yet I have 25 breed-able mares, with no one bred, but definitely not my mares or stallions fault..it was MY decision not to breed. So for now YES, I have a lot of spoiled pasture pals! But, I would rather do that, then have foals and not be able to sell them, or not be able to be responsible for them the way I feel a owner should be. IMO all of us that only breed one or two mares a year, are not the ones causing the problems with low prices..alot of it has to do with some "BREEDERS" who seem to think they need to breed every single mare, every year. Those are the breeders IMO that need to cut back.
QUOTE
Maybe im just gelding crazy, but if its not amazing it looses its meat balls. Heck, even if it is amazing, it might loose em. Why add more horses to an already overpopulated market? Thats part of why the prices are so low I don't know who made this post but my comment isn't just toward you. Just using this as an example.
First off, I'm not a breeder. I have 2 pet minis AND they ARE gelded. It just amazes me at all the comments on this forum about gelding and NOT breeding because YOU don't think the quality is there and "WHY ADD TO AN ALREADY OVERPOPULATED MARKET", when most everyone on here is breeding every year. What say, everyone on this forum DOESN'T BREED for 2 years and see what happens. Maybe the market will come back up and maybe some overpopulated horses can get a home.
I agree there is an overpopulation so why keep breeding and breeding year after year.
I couldn't agree more
PrestigeMiniHorses
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I must say I own a stallion BUT I don't breed. Don't really plan on it either. I might want one foal out of my 2 horses and then the boy gets cut I must say...Unless he produces something amazing. I must say I am one to buy what I am looking for or adopt even. The only real reason my colt isn't gelded is because he is nice IMO but mainly because he is the nicest stallion I have ever met. He is stalled with my mare even and doesnt have any interest in her at all. So I highly doubt he will breed her BUT if he does I am very prepared to keep the foal as my own. No selling for me and NO breeding for the public either. Not my cup of tea. Sorry if this is off topic!
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